Land Rover

[luv n tpa]

Originally Posted by als463

Okay-if we are going to discuss quality of vehicles...Would anyone want to give me some insight on the Hyundai Elantra??? I'm buying one (I've already put the money down for it because I desperately need a car) and I just want someone to give me some honest answers....I have a Dodge Stratus and I've had nothing but problems with it...Sure, it's a 1995 but, hey-I just graduated and it's the cheapest thing I could find in a snap....I've had it less than 6 months and it too has been to the shop more times than I would like to admit...

I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!

I'm sorry. I had to. See here.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...37390781124986

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I don't really understand why anyone gives American cars a chance these days. Except for trucks maybe. I'm surprised so many of you drive one - my boyfriend (who's originally from Michigan) is the only person I know well that drives an American car, and even HE says he'll never buy another one after his Ford POS he currently drives.

After owning a Honda now for almost 10 years that has only had one trip to the dealership for a major repair, I'm sold on Honda. I would never buy a car that DIDN'T have a reputation for dependability, safety and sound design, which I'm sorry to say almost all American cars now lack.

Oh, and that one major repair? It was the catalytic converter, which Honda covered under a special warranty on its exhaust system. Other than that, the only thing my car's been in for is oil changes, etc. By contrast, my boyfriend's Ford, which he bought about six months after I bought my car, is falling apart inside and out - the dash is coming loose, the driver's seat back reclines on its own, the seat belts don't retract and now the rear defrost is broken. You would never know the two cars are the same age.

My very first car was a Honda; last one made 100% in Japan.
I had three major recalls as well as a premature upper gasket failure.

After that, I have owned a Merkur XR4-TI (which a non-dealer mechanic messed up royally), a Grand Prix and now a 2001 Sable.

None of them had the same problems I had with my Honda.

Long story short, American cars have finally caught up with the imports.

Now they have to fight against brand loyalties, "old" POV's, and even Consumer Reports. CR has a problem with their writing Editors.

What they write is not alway supported by their annual Auto mag stats.

My next car will be a 2009 Lincoln or Mercury product.

[jon1856]

And if anyone is look or thinking about a car; here is my list of car sites
Fightingchance is a very good site to use to save money. Saved my girlfriend over 4 grand on her Honda.
PRICING SITES:

www.nadaguides.com

http://www.edmund.com/

http://WWW.KBB.COM

http://WWW.INTELLICHOICE.COM

http://www.leasesource.com

http://www.leaseguide.com/index.htm

www.fightingchance.com *********

www.finacenter.com/newautos.htm

INFORMATION AND WEB LINK SITES:

www.carbuyingtips.com

http://WWW.CARTALK.COM

http://www.CARPOINT.MSN.COM

http://www.popularmechanics.com

http:// www.consumerreports.org

http://WWW.AUTOSITE.COM

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp

http://www.carsmart.com

http://www.nctd.com

http://www.autodirectory.com/

http://www.theautochannel.com/

http://www.crashtest.com
http://wsf.carfax.com/
www.cars.com

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by jon1856

My very first car was a Honda; last one made 100% in Japan.
I had three major recalls as well as a premature upper gasket failure.

After that, I have owned a Merkur XR4-TI (which a non-dealer mechanic messed up royally), a Grand Prix and now a 2001 Sable.

None of them had the same problems I had with my Honda.

But how long ago was that? When Hondas first were marketed in this country, they were like Hyundai in its earlier days - cheap, not well made or dependable. But then they caught on and got better, just like Hyundai is doing. Since you say it was your first car and you're several years older than me, I'm guessing your Honda was from maybe the 80s, when they weren't quite as dependable (though I still see a lot of 80s Honda Accords around). Sorry if I'm totally off, though.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

But how long ago was that? When Hondas first were marketed in this country, they were like Hyundai in its earlier days - cheap, not well made or dependable. But then they caught on and got better, just like Hyundai is doing. Since you say it was your first car and you're several years older than me, I'm guessing your Honda was from maybe the 80s, when they weren't quite as dependable (though I still see a lot of 80s Honda Accords around). Sorry if I'm totally off, though.

At the time Hondas were NOT like early Hyundais.

[Benzgirl]

My Honda from the 80s was the most dependable car, period. My mother bought an accord at the same time and drove it for ever. She buys nothing but Hondas now.

[SWTXBelle]

Gotta say - my last 3 cars have been Dodge/Chrysler, and I've driven the hell out of them. 1993 Dodge Caravan - traded in with 185,000 miles; 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan - this one had an initial "bug" (miscast piston) but after that was fixed (with no problem) drove to 135,000, traded it in on my 2005 Chrysler Town and Country - currently at around 40,000, and the only problem I've had is when Billy Joe Bubba Redneck decided to crash into me (as I was at a standstill in Nashville traffic) going about 50 mph. I don't think you can blame Chrysler for that - although his insurance company probably tried to !
I am religious about oil changes and keeping on top of little problems before they become big ones.
My family has always been a Dodge family - I learned to drive in a 1978 Dodge pickup, and my first car was a 1976 Royal Monaco which lasted until I hit a log in the road going about 70 and cracked the frame! But I do know that Dodge went through a rough patch there for a while.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

My Honda from the 80s was the most dependable car, period. My mother bought an accord at the same time and drove it for ever. She buys nothing but Hondas now.

Our POV's/HO's are based in part on our experiences.
Having three major recalls, a water pump failure, a head gasket failure sort of leaves a port taste in my mouth
Those are the problems that I recall.
And, at the time, being told that I could take or leave the price I was given still bothers me.

And do not get me started on my mom's 800S.

All cars has wear and tear issues.
All cars should be maintained.

Every car type, model, brand, year et al is going to have great cars as well as lemons.

Thus there are those out there who love their car, as well as those who hate it.

The US manufactures have lost at least a generation of car buyers for many reason. Some of their own doing and/or making.

They have a hill to climb to get them back.

[PeppyGPhiB]

This always interests me. How do you define "American"? Is it where the car is assembled? Or where the parts come from? Or is it where the company is based, as in it's an American corporation?

If I recall, my bf said most of the cheap components that went into his Ford were made in whatever foreign country brought the lowest bid, not America. Since he used to be an engineer at Ford, I'll take him at his word.

Along those lines, my Honda is just as much Canadian as it is Japanese. The parts are from Japan, but it was mostly assembled in Canada.

Toyota employs a LOT of people in this country. I believe the company now has several assembly plants here. In fact, the Toyota Tundra truck is apparently assembled at a new plant in Texas! While the plants in Detroit lay off Americans that have worked there for decades (and I think the automakers only have themselves to blame for it), Toyota is hiring Americans. If you're wanting to support companies that support American workers and employ people here, I'm not sure that Ford/Chrysler/GM is the way to go anymore - they're trending in the opposite direction nowadays, due to their poor design and business decisions. I feel they've let American down.

The only things about these companies that seem to differ are their philosophies and vision. But they differ in a BIG way.

[SWTXBelle]

I think everyone realizes that "American" and "Foreign" are rather dated terms, given the globalization of everything. Heck, Chrysler was really a German company there for a while (who has them now? Can't tell the players without a program!). I grew up with Dodge, so am comfortable with them, and have had good luck. The dealership here is awesome -they've taken really good care of me and my cars. That said, I had a Honda that drove forever, too. But for what I need - a minivan - and based on my experiences, I'm most comfortable with my Chrysler Town & Country.
Going back to the OP - Consumer Reports usually has good data on cars.

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

This always interests me. How do you define "American"? Is it where the car is assembled? Or where the parts come from? Or is it where the company is based, as in it's an American corporation?

If I recall, my bf said most of the cheap components that went into his Ford were made in whatever foreign country brought the lowest bid, not America. Since he used to be an engineer at Ford, I'll take him at his word.

Along those lines, my Honda is just as much Canadian as it is Japanese. The parts are from Japan, but it was mostly assembled in Canada.

Toyota employs a LOT of people in this country. I believe the company now has several assembly plants here. In fact, the Toyota Tundra truck is apparently assembled at a new plant in Texas! While the plants in Detroit lay off Americans that have worked there for decades (and I think the automakers only have themselves to blame for it), Toyota is hiring Americans. If you're wanting to support companies that support American workers and employ people here, I'm not sure that Ford/Chrysler/GM is the way to go anymore - they're trending in the opposite direction nowadays, due to their poor design and business decisions. I feel they've let American down.

The only things about these companies that seem to differ are their philosophies and vision. But they differ in a BIG way.

The Toyota Tundra is assembled in Princeton, Indiana (it may also be assembled in Texas). I have several friends that work there and the entire area has grown tremedously since Toyota opened the plant in the late 1990s.

My husband also is big about buying American- but he now considers Toyota to be okay since it employs our friends. I am now trying to convince him Hondas are okay, since some of them are made in Marysville, Ohio and employee several of my relatives...

[PM_Mama00]

My issue isn't about American or Foreign. When a Toyota plant starts supporting Detroit, I'll buy them. For now, I'm sticking to Ford/GM/Chrysler. Mainly Ford because my Jeep is a piece of shit and I've had nothing but problems with it.

Many people from Detroit support these companies because most likely they have a connection to someone who works for them.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I think everyone realizes that "American" and "Foreign" are rather dated terms, given the globalization of everything. Heck, Chrysler was really a German company there for a while (who has them now? Can't tell the players without a program!). I grew up with Dodge, so am comfortable with them, and have had good luck. The dealership here is awesome -they've taken really good care of me and my cars. That said, I had a Honda that drove forever, too. But for what I need - a minivan - and based on my experiences, I'm most comfortable with my Chrysler Town & Country.
Going back to the OP - Consumer Reports usually has good data on cars.

I agree, CR has good DATA on cars.
Just be very careful on reading what some readers have just about called Editorials in letter written in to them.

Many times it seems as if the writers of the articles do not read the data in their own publication. Or talk to those who are collecting it and writing it.

This year, in fact this month, they wrote a small article saying that the new Accord is great, should be as reliable as past models. This after a very short drive in a brand new model.

The problems with that? Most automotive experts, including theirs, say to try to avoid the first year of new models. And CR's own April data proves that; even with Honda.

And their writers tend over look problems in write ups on Japanese cars that they bring up with US cars.

One that comes to mind is rear view vision. Most cars have very short rears which cause one not to be truly able to see the rear of car or bumper.

They point that out in US cars in a negative way yet brush over it in Japanese cars.

And before one asks, I have been reading CR most of my life and do subscribe to it.

I just take what they say with a grain of salt and gather information from other sources as well.

And having driven by their HQ and seen what is in their parking lot, there is very little wonder why there maybe some (perhaps unconscious) biases in their writing.

[AOIIalum]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

My husband also is big about buying American- but he now considers Toyota to be okay since it employs our friends. I am now trying to convince him Hondas are okay, since some of them are made in Marysville, Ohio and employee several of my relatives...

I definitely concur, but then again I'm biased as I work for one of their trading subsidiaries! Honda may be a Japanese company but they employ thousands of Americans in cities all over the country and generally treat their employees very well.

I understand supporting American companies but if you're looking at a long-term investment you want the best product your money can buy. Both DH and I used to drive Fords exclusively, but a few lemons in a row really soured us on the brand. I doubt I'd ever spend money on another Ford again, even though I grew up in a town where thousands of people were employed by the Ford Truck plants. I've got a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan and have had to do some maintenance and repairs in the past year, but nothing excessive based on age and mileage. DH currently has a 2001 Mazda 626 and has had zero problems in six years. I wouldn't hesitate to consider another Mazda based on his experiences, whether it was built here or Japan or elsewhere.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by AOIIalum

I definitely concur, but then again I'm biased as I work for one of their trading subsidiaries! Honda may be a Japanese company but they employ thousands of Americans in cities all over the country and generally treat their employees very well.

I have seen several reports that show the over all compensation packages the workers have at the Japanese plants are LOWER than those working at the US plants. And yes, I am talking about North American plants.

Just one of the reasons the Japaneses have an advantage.

Among others: Newer buildings, younger employees, much lower pension and medical risks, et al.

And I thought about posting links, but some people here seem to prefer to do their own looking and research.