Letters on Bid Day???

[SthrnZeta]

Ok, since I've been ever so slightly attacked on this thread, allow me to clarify my position and then forget I ever opened this can of worms. My new member coordinator stated that we could vote as a pledge class. Of course, I wanted to wear letters but I thought it was kinda neat that it was traditionally reserved for initiated sisters, it gave us a status symbol to look forward to because, as I've said before, letters were worn a lot on my campus. She told us that it was tradition to wait to wear them but we would vote as a pledge class whether or not we wanted to wait. I'm not going to lie, there was of course some influence on her part, but I don't feel like it was hazing (gray area maybe, but I didn't feel hurt or humiliated so I don't feel it constituted hazing). Then I saw how most of the other chapters on campus adhered to this belief also, so then I really believed it was a good idea to wait. There are chapters that make girls wear their pledge ribbons all throughout their pledge period and no one calls them out for hazing, so I think saying that my new member coordinator was walking a fine line of hazing is just silly. I've stated my belief, some have agreed, others disagreed. The fact that we all do it differently is just one more thing that sets each chapter apart and I don't feel that's a bad thing.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

Ok, since I've been ever so slightly attacked on this thread, allow me to clarify my position and then forget I ever opened this can of worms. My new member coordinator stated that we could vote as a pledge class. Of course, I wanted to wear letters but I thought it was kinda neat that it was traditionally reserved for initiated sisters, it gave us a status symbol to look forward to because, as I've said before, letters were worn a lot on my campus. She told us that it was tradition to wait to wear them but we would vote as a pledge class whether or not we wanted to wait. I'm not going to lie, there was of course some influence on her part, but I don't feel like it was hazing (gray area maybe, but I didn't feel hurt or humiliated so I don't feel it constituted hazing). Then I saw how most of the other chapters on campus adhered to this belief also, so then I really believed it was a good idea to wait. There are chapters that make girls wear their pledge ribbons all throughout their pledge period and no one calls them out for hazing, so I think saying that my new member coordinator was walking a fine line of hazing is just silly. I've stated my belief, some have agreed, others disagreed. The fact that we all do it differently is just one more thing that sets each chapter apart and I don't feel that's a bad thing.

So don't get upset that there's discussion about it.

BTW, requiring NMs wear their ribbons would also technically qualify as hazing under most sororities policies. So I'll call them out if you like. "They're doing it too" or "they're doing it worse" doesn't absolve anyone else.

[SthrnZeta]

Discussion and attacking are different. All one has to say is that they disagree and here's why, not "you're contradicting yourself" and you're wrong. I didn't think that's what GC was for. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, just say so instead of making me feel bad for a belief that I know I'm not alone in or wrong to believe. And I'm not saying that one act is more an act of hazing than another, just trying to show another example is all. I'm not trying to shift the light onto another topic or anything like that, just proving a point. Sororities do all sorts of little things that could technically constitute hazing if you want to take it that far, but then you lose some of the fun of traditions that some women hold very dear. I could go into a list of things my chapter did that you may consider hazing (in that oh so gray area) but I'd be messing with ritual and traditions. All I'm saying is, I disagree with you and you disagree with me. Simple enough.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

Sororities do all sorts of little things that could technically constitute hazing if you want to take it that far, but then you lose some of the fun of traditions that some women hold very dear. I could go into a list of things my chapter did that you may consider hazing (in that oh so gray area) but I'd be messing with ritual and traditions. All I'm saying is, I disagree with you and you disagree with me. Simple enough.

That's your chapter, not everyone's. I honestly can't think of ONE thing we do with NMs that could even be in a gray area. Of course, my school is known for being extremely strict with hazing laws - it is simply not tolerated among the NPC/NIC groups on campus. [I can't speak for the NPHC; I don't really know any chapter well enough to say about it.]

And there is nothing wrong with pointing out that you're being contradictory.

[SthrnZeta]

If I didn't feel hurt in some way or humiliated, then I don't feel it was hazing. I think some people take the hazing issue a little far for political correctness sake and don't see that some of it is merely in good fun. I was honestly jealous of the girls who had to wear their pledge ribbons all the time, I would have been proud to wear my sorority colors every day whether I was told to or not. Isn't it expected that sisters wear sorority paraphanalia during recruitment and that new members especially are told to do so during COR afterwards - and that's not considered hazing. I'm just saying, by your rationale, a lot of things that we ALL do could be considered hazing and I don't feel telling a new member that it is more appropriate to wait to wear our letters until they know their full meaning is hazing. Your chapter and you may feel differently, but it was our campus climate to keep this tradition and again, I don't feel it's hazing. You're acting like I had my fat circled!!!

[fantASTic]

Yes, I really do mean that. I cannot think of ONE THING that would be considered hazing.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Yes, I really do mean that. I cannot think of ONE THING that would be considered hazing.

Did you have meetings with NMs only? That's hazing, by the definition.

Did you ever feel stressed during your NM period? That's hazing, by the definition.

Did you wear different shirts on bid day than the actives were wearing, thus setting you apart as pledges? That's hazing, by the definition.

Hazing is defined as ANYTHING that sets the NMs apart from the active sisters. If you want to take it to the absurd level I did, there's absolutely no way to have any kind of NM program without hazing.

And as far as the colors, she said she would have been proud to wear them every day, whether she was told to or not. The word "force" is nowhere in her post. We were "told" that Friday was the day to wear letters on our campus because it was a campus tradition - no one was ever FORCED to - if someone had a dressy presentation or something that day it wasn't like anyone would get on her case for wearing letters!!

SthrnZta, you are getting jumped on here and it's ridiculous. Sororities and fraternities are not McDonald's - every chapter is not homogenous. (And hell, I think even McDonald's has a McLobster roll or something in Maine, so even THEY aren't homogenous.)

[SthrnZeta]

Thank you 33, I really appreciate someone finally agreeing with me and helping me prove my point! I said earlier that I know there will be those who disagree with me on this particular issue, but I just feel so strongly that you can't call something like that hazing and I'm glad you put such great examples up - great post! Our different traditions set us apart and that's what makes us different and great!

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Did you have meetings with NMs only? That's hazing, by the definition.

Did you ever feel stressed during your NM period? That's hazing, by the definition.

Did you wear different shirts on bid day than the actives were wearing, thus setting you apart as pledges? That's hazing, by the definition.

No, busy but not overstressed, and no.

[SthrnZeta]

Did you have to wear a different pin than the initiated sisters? That would set you apart (if you had badge attire day) and wouldn't that be hazing...???

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

No, busy but not overstressed, and no.

You didn't have ANY sort of NM Ed meeting? At all? You just pledged one day and started going to chapter meetings, etc without any formal time set up for NM to learn about your sorority??

[adpiucf]

New member ed is not hazing. It is a requirement expected of ALL the members. It has a reasonable, constructive and educational purpose WHEN performed under the supervision (approval) of your nationals.

Our sorority isn't permitted to hold any kind of new member activity, including education meetings, without national approval. That approval covers the dates, locations, the schedule of activities and detailing what the activities are comprised of. This absolves the national group if the chapter screws up.

Separating an individual or a group of individuals from the rest, and requiring them to do something that is not expected of the rest of the members, and has neither reasonable nor constructive educational or service oriented intent, can be considered hazing.

Nationally approved new member education meetings and new education practices, are not hazing.

[fantASTic]

Point taken.

[fantASTic]

No, we had NM meetings, but there were, of course, actives there directing it. That is not against the hazing laws, anyways.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

No, we had NM meetings, but there were, of course, actives there directing it. That is not against the hazing laws, anyways.

Not ALL of the actives were required to attend. ALL NMs were required to attend. That sets the new members apart, and can therefore be classified as hazing.

You can take anything to ridiculosity...