Sex Change and Membership

[Drolefille]

I know bisexual and lesbian women who are members of NPC chapters. Mostly it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Thetagirl218

Also, I was waiting for the whole homosexual topic to come up and it did. I know both fraternity and sorority members who are homosexual and this is not a problem in their chapters or universities.

Yeah, that's less of a big deal. What someone does in the sack is not my business. Whether they meet minimal requirements for membership is.

[preciousjeni]

Wow GC! I have had an ongoing conversation about transgender/transsexual membership within my own sorority. I keep hitting a wall when I try to figure out how one legally changes gender. Does anyone know if you can change your gender on legal documents? I know it's possible to change the gender listed on your SS# file if your birth certificate shows the other sex.

I think that's the biggest issue at this point for me. Personally, if a woman who identified as male and who wanted to be referred to as "he/him" had Theta Nu Xi in his heart and wanted to spend a lifetime supporting our mission and tenets, I would accept the interest. However, I can't imagine that sorority membership would appeal to a female-born male.

The more understandable situation would be a male-born female. And, here's where the situation gets sticky. If a person cannot LEGALLY change his or her gender, extending membership would threaten Title IX exemption. I've considered the option of going co-ed as this would be the most logical move to be as inclusive as possible, but that was not the vision of my founders so I do not support it.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by ChildoftheHorn

Hmm....

I would say that if you are a gender-confused individual, sorority membership is probably the last thing on your mind. Seriously, if you consider yourself more like a guy...why would you want to be around flower prints and pink for long periods of time?

I really don't think that a guy who thinks himself a girl would want to be in a trashed out fraternity house and do "manly" things.

Gender-confused? My, my. I don't know that I've ever met a transgender or transsexual individual who was confused about his or her gender. They all knew who they were inside and who they were outside from an early age.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Gender-confused? My, my. I don't know that I've ever met a transgender or transsexual individual who was confused about his or her gender. They all knew who they were inside and who they were outside from an early age.

There's often a period of time where people first identify as gay or bisexual, and eventually figure out that they're really transgender. Particularly if they're not too familiar with the concept. It's basically the confusion of "am I a butch lesbian, or a straight FTM?"

Some people are blessed in that they do truly know who they are, but it's not always so easy.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by ChildoftheHorn

Hmm....

I would say that if you are a gender-confused individual, sorority membership is probably the last thing on your mind. Seriously, if you consider yourself more like a guy...why would you want to be around flower prints and pink for long periods of time?

I really don't think that a guy who thinks himself a girl would want to be in a trashed out fraternity house and do "manly" things.

Homosexuality is something else entirely. I know some homosexual men who are in fraternities, but they are "manly" and are not at all the stereotype. LOL, most of their brothers don't even know because they don't suspect it even though they freely admit it. There was a guy who tried to rush the sororities last year, but it was shot down. I don't really know any homosexual females, so I cannot comment at all on that.

Be REALISTIC PEOPLE!!!!!

FYI, HQ would probably never know unless you were very very public with it or told them.

The whole thread is based on a joke in another thread. There's nobody who really thinks it's a real and pressing issue in Greek life. Just kind of a "hey, I wonder if . . . "

I think the idea though is that the person would want to join the group he or she internally identified with, so it's a girl who feels like a man and wants to join a fraternity or a guy who wants to join a sorority.

And if someone realized this was an issue after college, I don't think it probably figures in to their decision at all.


ETA: I'm not PC, and I'll just say that for I think a bigger section of the population than maybe some of you realize, what you are on the outside and what every cell of your body shows in DNA is in fact your sex or gender.

So when you don't feel like you match on the inside, the issue may your head and not with your reproductive system.

I think some day soon this thinking may seem as generally Neanderthal as thinking that homosexuality was a problem does today. But I don't think most of us are there yet.

To some of us it makes no more sense to think you can choose your gender or sex as it would to think you could choose your race. Sure, you can address all of the elements that are culturally constructed, but if your momma thinks you're white and your DNA says your ancestors are from Europe and you have naturally light pigment, straight blond hair, and blue eyes, many of us would think you were just a little nutty if you felt like you were Black on the inside.

[sageofages]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Wow GC! I have had an ongoing conversation about transgender/transsexual membership within my own sorority. I keep hitting a wall when I try to figure out how one legally changes gender. Does anyone know if you can change your gender on legal documents? I know it's possible to change the gender listed on your SS# file if your birth certificate shows the other sex.

I think that's the biggest issue at this point for me. Personally, if a woman who identified as male and who wanted to be referred to as "he/him" had Theta Nu Xi in his heart and wanted to spend a lifetime supporting our mission and tenets, I would accept the interest. However, I can't imagine that sorority membership would appeal to a female-born male.

The more understandable situation would be a male-born female. And, here's where the situation gets sticky. If a person cannot LEGALLY change his or her gender, extending membership would threaten Title IX exemption. I've considered the option of going co-ed as this would be the most logical move to be as inclusive as possible, but that was not the vision of my founders so I do not support it.

Yes, you can legally change your gender. On your birth certificate, on your social security card, and on your driver's license. It is all part of the process of gender reassignment. Actually it all occurs PRIOR to the reassignment surgery. There are incremental steps in the process...which is carefully dictated by laws involving psychiatrists, physicians and the legal system. I have several M=>F transgendered friends. A good book to read is "She's Not There" by Jennifer Finney Boylan.

[banditone]

wow.... we must be really running low on actual topics.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by banditone

wow.... we must be really running low on actual topics.

Well, you know, there is only so many times that you can rehash the effects of telling a PNM "You'll end up where you're meant to" and "You're just not a good fit".

[Little E]

I never really post on here anymore but this one hit home. My chapter bid a woman who was considering reassignment. It was a long process - in terms of her deciding on the bid - ultimately it didn't make sense for her to join (to herself, not the chapter). She felt that because she really was a man, a woman's organization didn't really fit her. The founding principles would never fully click because at the heart of single-sex orgs is that we are single sex.

I think while 99% of the of the chapters in the world will never deal with this, there are a few of us weird non-conformist chapters out there, it is always good to know you aren't the only group posed with the question.

Side note: Reassingment is a very very long process. There is no way you would ever see an 18 year old going through rush who is about to get the surgery. Living as the opposite sex, yes, but probably not reassigned. From what I understand, you need to be completely done with puberty (for men this last much longer than women if you remember hs health class) then you have all of the psych counceling and hormone therapy. It takes years. I think this question is more pertinant to what happens when an alumn gets reassingned (my guess is they would be asked to resign if National ever even found out).

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Little E

Side note: Reassignment is a very very long process. There is no way you would ever see an 18 year old going through rush who is about to get the surgery. Living as the opposite sex, yes, but probably not reassigned. From what I understand, you need to be completely done with puberty (for men this last much longer than women if you remember HS health class) then you have all of the psych counseling and hormone therapy. It takes years. I think this question is more pertinent to what happens when an alumni gets reassigned (my guess is they would be asked to resign if National ever even found out).

As I posted above, one of my pledge Brothers DID did go through the process; way after graduation.

My Brother is STILL listed as an active Brother; just with a new name.
National had to know something about it.

[summer_gphib]

Oh My Goodness, what a thread. I just really hope any stalker-type PNM's don't get the idea, that if they've rushed two or three times and still didn't get a bid, that they can have gender reassignment and try rushing. I can see it now. XYZ sorority wouldn't give me a bid, so I decided to change genders so I can be a member of ABC fraternity.

***
disclaimer: The above was said in complete sarcasm and is rolling in smartassedness. I have nothing against transgendered people, or anyone living an alternative lifestyle. I do however, have something against stalker-type PNM's.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by jon1856

As I posted above, one of my pledge Brothers DID did go through the process; way after graduation.

My Brother is STILL listed as an active Brother; just with a new name.
National had to know something about it.

Possibly not -- those directories are handled through third party companies. They may sell their name and address lists back to your National. I really doubt they are aware over there (or want to be aware) of this alumnus' gender reassignment.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Possibly not -- those directories are handled through third party companies. They may sell their name and address lists back to your National. I really doubt they are aware over there (or want to be aware) of this alumnus' gender reassignment.

I am not talking about paper directories, I am talking about my Nationals own data base.
Just how much they know, I do not care to ask or find out.
It does not bother me at all.

[Low C Sharp]

This may not come up much with rushees, but it DOES come up at women's colleges...pretty frequently. Smith College has had a raging debate about what to do when a student decides to officially identify as male.
________
Peach