Lawmakers Find $21 a Week Doesn't Buy a Lot of Groceries

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Ok...let's not make it into a name calling thing...Bush is not a point in this...fact of the matter is, food stamps and the issues arising from it has been a thorn in the side of many a president since it's inception in the late 1930's

Who is name calling? I was simply searching for a definition for the term "working people" -- a definition Democrats often attribute to people who actually don't work. I would still love someone to tell me what "working people" are for the purposes of GP's statement.

Reagan tried to make cutbacks in the 80s and Clinton instituted welfare to work programs in the 90s.

They didn't go anywhere near far enough.

But now, for the few changes and buget increases that they have made, someone is starting to wakeup to the fact that the money the put into this program doesn't help the poor eat an adequate amount and variety of food.

Show me some starving poor folks.. like the kind you see in 3rd world countries. Then you can make this claim. The fact is that in America, our "poor" have an astounding rate of obesity. Here are some other fun facts about American "poor" courtesy of the Heritage Foundation (their facts were obtained from the Census Bureau):

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

• Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
• Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
• Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
• The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
• Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
• Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
• Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
• Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

Let's face it, the policy has failed because where it was supposed to work for the better good in emergency situations, it caused more dependency than anything, and yanking the rug from under it would be seen and a drastic and inhuman way to deal with the situation....

I agree. I don't claim to be an expert in solving this problem. I'd like to see a lifetime cap instituted on the amount of benefits anyone may receive over their lifetime. I'm not sure of the feasibility of programs like the old T.V.A. or W.P.A. of the great depression, but I'd sure like to see someone look into 'em.

All you ever hear are stopgaps being discussed -- never solutions. Never ultimatums for people who simply choose to be poor. If they can make it on $21/week. Fine. If they could make it on less, I say we cut 'em back.

damned if you do...damned if you dont.

Wrong attitude

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

and AVERAGE of 21 dollars a week...either way, these people don't have the means to exist.

Which is wrong. These people do exist. They do it on $21/week as a supplement to their other income. Show me ONE person who has starved to death due to welfare not providing enough, then you have a case.

And please be mindful a lot of these immigrants (a whole other topic too BTW) work under the table and for what they are getting would make some of them 'kings' as opposed to staying home, but weigh in the other factors...

So? They work. That's my point. That means that there's a demand for labor that lazy Americans are not meeting. The fact that Mexican can find work and that there are able bodied Americans who do not do that work already shows to me that these Americans are lazy.

altho they EARN a decent wage, they have no access to insurance and proper health facilities, they can't LEGALLY open a bank account to save their money and MOST of what they earn goes back home in some cases to help another family member get here legally or even to skimp up enough to get themselves legalized.

Actually many banks invite their business. I believe Bank of America has accounts specifically set up for illegals. They make use of our emergency rooms just like all the other uninsured people. I think you exaggerate a wee bit. The point remains that these people work by doing jobs that Americans are too lazy to do.

I am glad to see the cynicism in the fact that you believe that getting an education will get you a job that will keep you from getting food stamps.

It will. Do some educated people use food stamps from time to time as a security blanket? Sure. Do they land on their feet aftwerwards? Yep. That is what these programs were designed for -- as a safety net, not a way of life.

Question, what would you do if you lost your job and home tomorrow and then wound up in a debiliating accident on Monday.....?

I'm currently a law student. I'm part time right now and work in the day. I'd probably move to a cheaper apartment (maybe on campus), I'd go full time, start drafting some major student loans. The debilitating accident wouldn't be a big deal. I might miss summer school, but in the end, I'd have better parking anyhow

The type of work I'll be doing won't really be physically demanding. If, however, the injuries left me unable to work, I'd qualify for social security and disability benefits, so naturally, I'd apply.

[AlphaFrog]

Kevin, you're showing your ass.

FYI.

[DaemonSeid]

clarity on a few points:

Name calling: not the working people...I meant to refer to blaming it on Bush...my bad....I was saying that as a reference that he is not the one who has the problem....he inherited it....hehe.


Show you some starving poor: I tell you what...come to Baltimore...drive 2 miles east or west of the Inner Harbor...Get out of your car....take a walk....note the quality and types of stores in the area as opposed to where you live. Note the subpar quality of eating establishments...note the number of abandoned houses and the possibilty that someone is living in one now...do this for a few hrs and then go home....get on your knees and thank whoever it is you pray to that you don't live like that...

Kevin I was raised in that area and can tell you 20 years it was NOT like that...I moved away 10 years ago and when I came back....this was what I saw...it's a drastic 180 away from the growth that was going on in the 80s and 90s....gentrification my friend.

...and if 46% own then the other portion rent and another portion of THAT are homeless....pie charts mean nothing when you are standing on a corner wishing you had even pie crumbs.


You wanna see starving people....come on down to downtown Washington DC....17th and I streets...RIGHT BEHIND Gee Dub's house...let's you and I take a walk thru the park where I go to lunch sometimes and I will let you stand and count how many homeless and starving people are crowding the benches....heck...I don't have pocket change anymore cuz I am giving it to an old dude in hopes that he gets some food....

After work...let's take a walk from here to Chinatown and let's count again how many homeless poor are sitting out here trying to get a meal not 5 blocks away from the tourists visiting the mall....

All this first and and trust me afterwards you will wake up thankful ddaily that you have what you have.

Most of these people who have a roof over thier heads are the same ones that have no power in ther homes and either die or burnt out because since they cant afford the rising price of energy had to resort to other means to keeping warm.



and the damned if you do damned if you don't

it's not my attitude...that is just the way things are.....

that is just the big problem with the policy....there is no right way in solving it and removing it without upsetting a whole population of people

[DaemonSeid]

[QUOTE=Kevin;1450289]Which is wrong. These people do exist. They do it on $21/week as a supplement to their other income. Show me ONE person who has starved to death due to welfare not providing enough, then you have a case.


Kevin...If I knew you better, I would let you call my mom who has worked with the Dept of Social Services in MD for the past 30 years.....she would show you tons and telll you where they are buried....


I am glad to know that u think u are bullet proof enough to avoid whatever curveball life will throw at you....

the Book of Job can do wonders with people with that attitude.

[squirrely girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If they can subsist on this minimal $21/week, that's good enough for me. In nearly every case I've seen here, soldiers, etc., the $21/week is supplemental to their other income, so saying they're eating on $21/week is misleading at best.

so do you not have other expenses besides food? or am i the only person? (btw this isn't personal and i'm not TRYING to be rude or over critical of you kevin but as far as i can see you're the only person really arguing in the other direction)

granted there is most likely OTHER income, but i also know what its like to have more bills than money in a month. and i'm nowhere near 'poor'. labeling $21/week as misleading IMO is just another way to be able to ignore the numbers and the problem. $21/week for food IS a reality for more than a handful of people in this country. that is a problem.

i think people are also ignoring the concept of food quality. that article was pretty good about addressing the lack of whole foods, fruits and veggies, milk, organic foods, and even semi-healthy options. poor people and people recieving food stamps don't have the luxury of healthy foods. this is a HUGE problem. people wonder why kids and adults in this country are overweight and obese (and don't say 'exercise' if you can afford to be a member of a gym or can work out in a safe neighborhood - i really don't want to hear it). quality of diet is a huge factor. when people can eat off the dollar menu at mcdonalds and be full for SIGNIFICANTLY less than they could if they were paying to buy healthy foods at a grocery store, there's a problem. and this is a huge problem when this is how children are being fed.

then again i'm a fan of not judging other people and the world based on MY situation in life.

- m

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

so do you not have other expenses besides food? or am i the only person? (btw this isn't personal and i'm not TRYING to be rude or over critical of you kevin but as far as i can see you're the only person really arguing in the other direction)

granted there is most likely OTHER income, but i also know what its like to have more bills than money in a month. and i'm nowhere near 'poor'. labeling $21/week as misleading IMO is just another way to be able to ignore the numbers and the problem. $21/week for food IS a reality for more than a handful of people in this country. that is a problem.

i think people are also ignoring the concept of food quality. that article was pretty good about addressing the lack of whole foods, fruits and veggies, milk, organic foods, and even semi-healthy options. poor people and people recieving food stamps don't have the luxury of healthy foods. this is a HUGE problem. people wonder why kids and adults in this country are overweight and obese (and don't say 'exercise' if you can afford to be a member of a gym or can work out in a safe neighborhood - i really don't want to hear it). quality of diet is a huge factor. when people can eat off the dollar menu at mcdonalds and be full for SIGNIFICANTLY less than they could if they were paying to buy healthy foods at a grocery store, there's a problem. and this is a huge problem when this is how children are being fed.

then again i'm a fan of not judging other people and the world based on MY situation in life.

- m

HERE HERE Squirelly!

[DaemonSeid]

Kevin...and while u are at it....if you ever made that trek into Baltimore or DC....for each and every person you see...

For each reformed or down on thier luck junkie I want you to look them in the eye and tell them get a job

For each abused adult who can't get medical help I want you to look them in the eye and tell them get a job

For someone who is so infirm they can't get a job I want you to look them in the eye and tell them get a job


For each able bodied Katrina victim displaced this far north I want you to look them in the eye and tell them get a job

[OneTimeSBX]

**blowing kisses at squirrly...

thank you!

milk in VA is 3.50 a gallon. on 21 bucks a week, that leaves 16.50.
eggs run you a buck, 15.50.
juice, even your cheapy store brand? 1.50 a half gallon? 1 gallon worth leaves 12.50
bread runs 1.50 or so? 11.00
a pack of bologna, another 1.50... 9.50
cheese anyone? 2 bucks, 7.50.
a few cans of vegetables at 50 cents 5.50
of course the ever popular ramen noodles (smile!) 10cents a pack, another buck for 10 packs...4.50.
and hell, lets splurge. a box of CORN FLAKES for the milk. 2.50 for those..

you have a grand total of $2.00 left. that goes towards taxes.

now does any of that seem healthy to you? the milk and eggs and veggies are ok, the cereal will cover a few meals, but i know i personally would be starving on this much food! god forbid you need some of that extra money for gas/bus fare...youre doomed!

a bag of greasy, salty, fattening potato chips can cost as little as 99 cents, while a bag of your brand name, baked, low sodium, trans fat free chips are almost $3.00!! that is why the poor can still end up obese!

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

**blowing kisses at squirrly...

thank you!

milk in VA is 3.50 a gallon. on 21 bucks a week, that leaves 16.50.
eggs run you a buck, 15.50.
juice, even your cheapy store brand? 1.50 a half gallon? 1 gallon worth leaves 12.50
bread runs 1.50 or so? 11.00
a pack of bologna, another 1.50... 9.50
cheese anyone? 2 bucks, 7.50.
a few cans of vegetables at 50 cents 5.50
of course the ever popular ramen noodles (smile!) 10cents a pack, another buck for 10 packs...4.50.
and hell, lets splurge. a box of CORN FLAKES for the milk. 2.50 for those..

you have a grand total of $2.00 left. that goes towards taxes.

now does any of that seem healthy to you? the milk and eggs and veggies are ok, the cereal will cover a few meals, but i know i personally would be starving on this much food! god forbid you need some of that extra money for gas/bus fare...youre doomed!

a bag of greasy, salty, fattening potato chips can cost as little as 99 cents, while a bag of your brand name, baked, low sodium, trans fat free chips are almost $3.00!! that is why the poor can still end up obese!

Hole up, thure...u gotta say what kinda Corn Flakes you referring to!!! YA KNOW...Kellogs and the generics are 2 different flavors!!!

and what the heck are we drinking??? You cant splurge unless you get a few packs of koll aid (red) or a bottle of the 1.99 juice and then whatever change u got left...then u can splurge

[OneTimeSBX]

lmao my bad!

get the generic corn flakes (which sometimes taste better), forget the juice and get 10 packs of red (not cherry, RED!) kool-aid and 2 5-pound bags of sugar lol...hell we may even have enough for a can or two of tuna!

point is, you are gonna be one hungry, irritable person at the end of the day.

and another point, i think that is also why some of these kids get labeled as ADHD when their a**es are HUNGRY! you'd be staring into space and acting out too!

[Tom Earp]

I am amazed how many people think they can live on $21.00 a week for food.

I am single and pinch pennies when buying food.

Try owning a smal business and not making much out of it.

If you own a business, you cannot get on food stamps/now vision cards and amazing how many people ahve them and try to buy not approved food items!

Or "Mothers Day" when welfare checks come out and they drive up to one of the infamous liquor stores in their Cadillacs to buy booze and cash them!

Kevin, YOU are a disgrace to man kind for coming from a Mid USA State going to a State School and working to get through and graduating and then going to Law School! How can you be so crass?

Oh, Vision cards will not work in ATMs as I have had some try and get made at me!

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

I am amazed how many people think they can live on $21.00 a week for food.

I am single and pinch pennies when buying food.

Try owning a smal business and not making much out of it.

If you own a business, you cannot get on food stamps/now vision cards and amazing how many people ahve them and try to buy not approved food items!

Or "Mothers Day" when welfare checks come out and they drive up to one of the infamous liquor stores in their Cadillacs to buy booze and cash them!

Kevin, YOU are a disgrace to man kind for coming from a Mid USA State going to a State School and working to get through and graduating and then going to Law School! How can you be so crass?

Oh, Vision cards will not work in ATMs as I have had some try and get made at me!

And some of those people that own thier businesses have a helluva time paying for insurance....if they have insurance

[squirrely girl]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Or "Mothers Day" when welfare checks come out and they drive up to one of the infamous liquor stores in their Cadillacs to buy booze and cash them!

Kevin, YOU are a disgrace to man kind for coming from a Mid USA State going to a State School and working to get through and graduating and then going to Law School! How can you be so crass?

oh dear lord. i won't even get started on the terms you choose to use.

however, tom, i come from a mid usa state and went to a state school, in addition to working the midnight shift all four years while double majoring. oh yah. i've since gone on to get a masters and start work on my phd. i have funded everything on my own through loans and work. but that is NOTHING SPECIAL. i'm still a lucky bastard for the opportunities i've been afforded in my life. not everybody is that lucky. but situation and circumstance don't excuse you from caring or being firmly grounded in reality.

i'm sincere when i say that pinching pennies while food shopping sucks and i fully empathize with you. but then you could always take kevin's earlier advice and get a different job... but i don't think that fixes a SOCIETAL issue.

- m

[squirrely girl]

on a side note, i just wanna throw it out there that i usually don't post a whole lot on GC in general, let alone a single thread. but i'm REALLY passionate about the topics of eating patterns and obesity and particularly how environment and situation effect them. i'm not trying to rant or pick on anybody. really. its just hard to spend my time studying and researching these phenomenon and have uninformed people saying *what i personally perceive to be* cruel and ignorant things.

i apologize if anybody is offended but that's just how it is.

- m