FAMU Alumni/Current Students

[PhrozenGenius]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

We aren't talking about PWIs. You can start a thread on them if you want.

Asinine statement. As soon as the term "HBCU" got thrown out there the point of reference became PWI's in terms of institutional direction, accountability, and the way this would have been handled. The question in effect became: If UCF, USF, UF, FSU, or even Sterling had messed up like this would there have been a call to close it? You know it. If we were talking about Higher Educational Institutions in general there would be no need to use the term "HBCU" or "PWI" in this discussion whatsoever.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

This is qualitative information that are "facts" simply because I have read and heard the opinions myself. Reputation is based on both the objective and the subjective. In that case:

Many HBCU alum, administration, employers, graduate schools, general population people, etc. don't hold schools like Hampton and Howard in the same regard as they once did in terms of 1) academic rigor; 2) quality of student body; 3) preparation for the job market or graduate school; and 4) prestige (subjectively defined).

This isn't a point of debate as far as I'm concerned because for every person who respects HBCUs as a whole there will always be (more) people who don't. Simple as that.

ETA: I'm talking about the colleges and universities as a whole, not particular departments or programs. So mentioning a school's specific program to me doesn't dismiss the idea of it being a struggling HBCU as a whole. I'm also not talking about ALL HBCUs being sucky--there's one HBCU that I absolutely adore and it is one of the best schools in the national PERIOD, as far as I'm concerned.

Sounds like your opinion and circle of sociality have been disguised as qualitative information. Well, as we all know you can't have qualitative without info without quantitative aspects and methodology. How many were surveyed? How many people don't respect HBCU's? How can we measure the quality of students at the institutions versus their predecessors? When did HBCU's become less academically rigorous? What institutions in specific? Unless you can answer those questions don't call it qualitative.

Plus, your last statement completely negates your earlier points. "There's one HBCU that I absolutely ador and it is one of the best schools in the national PERIOD" comes right after you say people don't respect HBCU's....

NEWS FLASH: I'm not flaming you. I'm just coming at you in the same way that LitAKAtor came at N4L. Just like she said his post about closing FAMU down was irresponsible I'm saying the same about yours.

All in all, this boils down to what I said before. We need to stress accountability for our institutions actions and stop giving our black people "who've made it" a pass to do whatever they feel like doing with our institutions. Whether it's the NAACP, FAMU, the National Urban League, whatever. If Spike Lee starts screwing up 40 Acres and a Mule I'm gonna be right there calling his ass out. These HBCU's and institutions are not here just for the alumni and students but ALL of us. I went to a PWI, but that doesn't mean I don't love HBCU's any less than some of the people that went there. I will call out ANYONE that either A)receives my tax money or B) is working in OUR interest...

Peace Out

Phrozen Genius
(From the state with more HBCU's than ANY OTHER STATE IN THE NATION!)

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

(From the state with more HBCU's than ANY OTHER STATE IN THE NATION!)

I live in Alabama too!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

As soon as the term "HBCU" got thrown out there the point of reference became PWI's

If I'm not the one who brought it up, I'm not talking about PWIs. Assinine that.

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Well, as we all know you can't have qualitative without info without quantitative aspects and methodology.

NOT true.

Even if it was true, if you don't have the quantitative info to trump any dissenting qualitative data, what's your point?

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

How many were surveyed? How many people don't respect HBCU's? How can we measure the quality of students at the institutions versus their predecessors? When did HBCU's become less academically rigorous? What institutions in specific? Unless you can answer those questions don't call it qualitative.

These questions were asked because you don't have a complete understanding of what "qualitative" means when used outside of a "methodology" context. Either way, I made no mention of rigorous methodology or even a survey being conducted. Moreover, many studies use qualitative data in the form of participant observation to go beyond the numbers and see how people really feel. Participant observation sizes can range from 1 to 100. So let's say my sample size was 200 from having had these discussions over the past 10 years. Let's say I've talked to alum from the 1960s to the 2000s. Let's say I won't tell the schools because I don't want to read people's hurt feelings about their HBCU.

What now? Nothing. So, miss me with whatever opinion you have from this point on and whatever lesson you thought you were teaching.

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Plus, your last statement completely negates your earlier points.

This makes no sense but that doesn't shock me. I guess you missed this part of my post that came right before the one you attached your ass to:

Originally Posted by DSTChaos

I'm talking about the colleges and universities as a whole, not particular departments or programs. So mentioning a school's specific program to me doesn't dismiss the idea of it being a struggling HBCU as a whole. I'm also not talking about ALL HBCUs being sucky.

If you're going to "debate," show that you can completely read and understand the opposing viewpoint before you attempt to counter it.

[PhrozenGenius]

I'm not going to debate anything you just attempted to break down because it essentially weakened your argument. You took your opinion, tried to pass it off as gospel/data/truth/the vox populi and then contradicted yourself *sigh*

Anyways, what do you think should be the next step as far as this situation is concerned? What should the Board of Regents and FAMU do to correct this problem?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

I'm not going to debate anything

You follow directions very well.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

You took your opinion, tried to pass it off as gospel/data/truth/the vox populi and then contradicted yourself *sigh*

I'm still trying to figure out where she did that. Especially since I would agree. The reps of many HBCUs (and that is all I am talking about here) are not as stellar as they once were. I am talking from many more years of experience than you. And no I did not go to a HBCU, but my daughter did.

In my opinion FAMU has one of the best business programs in the nation, yet it is not accredited. The same holds true for other HBCUs that for some reason have not achieved accreditation. This has led to a decrease of the reputations among corporate recruiters.

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

In my opinion FAMU has one of the best business programs in the nation, yet it is not accredited. The same holds true for other HBCUs that for some reason have not achieved accreditation. This has led to a decrease of the reputations among corporate recruiters.

As a alum of the business school, let me give my understanding of why it was never accredited. Trust, it was not because it could NOT be accredited, but with accredidation you have to change and become aligned with whatever the standards are of the accrediting body. Dean Mobley created a gem at FAMU with Professional Development - at the time there was nothing like it at any business school. business schools such as Wharton and others were clamoring trying to figure it out - what is it that Dean Mobley is doing to prepare these AA students to take the business world by storm. We were just going to class and making presentations, we were interacting one on one with CEOs of companies. We were engaging them with stimulating well researched questions. We were/are prepared to sit at the table with any corporate exec and act and talk like we are supposed to be there. D. Mobley didn't want to jeapordize that by getting accredidation from a body that couldn't measure up to what she already had created . . why when top notch corporations were actively and still are actively seeking us out. My internships were with Pfizer HQ and Chamption International HQ . . .not some mom and pop stores. I interacted with the VP of HR of Pfizer ( a sister while I was there) and met and dialoged with the VP of Marketing at Champion . . .how many can say that? In my opinion, accredidation during that time would have done nothing but hurt the program - and it wasn't needed. NOw that D. Mobley is gone and more schools have incorporated Professional Development in their curriculum, it may be needed - there is a new sister and the helm of SBI and from all accounts she is doing a good job . . . but I think with the desire to get accredited, some brilliant people were let go (former Coporate Execs) and that, in my opinion, may end up doing more harm than good. So bottom line, I don't agree with your statement that the lack of accredidation at SBI made its graduates any less competitive than others. I know several graduates (some very recent) who have been accepted to Columbia, Harvard, Yale, and other Ivy League Business schools and others who have earned their MBA's from A&M and have been hired and the top accounting firms and corporations and the lack of accredidation wasn't even an issue.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

In my opinion FAMU has one of the best business programs in the nation, yet it is not accredited. The same holds true for other HBCUs that for some reason have not achieved accreditation. This has led to a decrease of the reputations among corporate recruiters.

I advise everyone with a grain of sense to stay from perpetually nonaccredited schools, whether they be HBCUs or PWIs.

However, if the school loses its accreditation only for a short period of time due to unforeseen circumstances, like NCCU's b-school, that is given a pass as long as they get their accreditation back within a few months or a year.

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

This is qualitative information that are "facts" simply because I have read and heard the opinions myself. Reputation is based on both the objective and the subjective. In that case:

Many HBCU alum, administration, employers, graduate schools, general population people, etc. don't hold schools like Hampton and Howard in the same regard as they once did in terms of 1) academic rigor; 2) quality of student body; 3) preparation for the job market or graduate school; and 4) prestige (subjectively defined).

This isn't a point of debate as far as I'm concerned because for every person who respects HBCUs as a whole there will always be (more) people who don't. Simple as that.

ETA: I'm talking about the colleges and universities as a whole, not particular departments or programs. So mentioning a school's specific program to me doesn't dismiss the idea of it being a struggling HBCU as a whole. I'm also not talking about ALL HBCUs being sucky--there's one HBCU that I absolutely adore and it is one of the best schools in the national PERIOD, as far as I'm concerned.

As you once again have failed to provide SPECIFIC facts that substantiate any of your OPINIONS, I won't engage in a back and forth with you about this issue. If you have SPECIFIC data regarding that lack of: 1) academic rigor; 2) quality of student body; 3) preparation for the job market or graduate school; and 4) prestige that led to your views, then okay. If not, it is, in my opinon, conjecture and not entitled to more weight than that given to just one person's opinion based on other people's OPINIONS. That would kind of be like me making an argument to the court about a position I was taking with no legal support . . . . ain't gonna fly.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by litAKAtor

I won't engage in a back and forth with you about this issue.

Good because, like I said, there is always a subjective approach to this topic that not everyone will agree on regardless of what info is provided.

I never cared to debate with you and have moved on.

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I advise everyone with a grain of sense to stay from perpetually nonaccredited schools, whether they be HBCUs or PWIs.

However, if the school loses its accreditation only for a short period of time due to unforeseen circumstances, like NCCU's b-school, that is given a pass as long as they get their accreditation back within a few months or a year.

Spoken like a person that has no idea about the legacy of A&M's business program . . Once again if you have any FACTS that substantiate your view that A&M's graduates are/were less prepared and less qualified and competitive than another business school OR have information that corporate recruiters during the relevant period (during D. Mobley's tenure) viewed A&M's business graduates any less competitive than than of Wharton or the like, then please provide me that information. And while I am not aware of NCCU's b-school curriculum, I am about 95% sure that it is no where similar to that of A&M's which was NATIONALLY recognized.

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Good because, like I said, there is always a subjective approach to this topic that not everyone will agree on regardless of what info is provided.

I never cared to debate with you and have moved on.

CLEARLY you haven't - thus your recent post. But it's whatever. You still have failed to provide any factual information to support your original post despite Phrozen and my inquiry as to the same.

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Anyways, what do you think should be the next step as far as this situation is concerned? What should the Board of Regents and FAMU do to correct this problem?

Way to get back on track. I believe they are hiring an accounting firm to take a look at the situation and attempt to make some recommendations. I think the Board of Trustees (no longer BOR) for the University needs to give the administration a reasonable time period to clean house. There is a new administration coming in this summer, and I think an opportunity needs to be give it to assess the situation and together with the accounting/consulting firm develop a short term and long term plan to fix this issue and ensure it doesn't happen again, respectively. There is too much history surrounding the school to close its doors and alumn are not going to let that happen.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by litAKAtor

Spoken like a person that has no idea about the legacy of A&M's business program . . Once again if you have any FACTS that substantiate your view that A&M's graduates are/were less prepared and less qualified and competitive than another business school OR have information that corporate recruiters during the relevant period (during D. Mobley's tenure) viewed A&M's business graduates any less competitive than than of Wharton or the like, then please provide me that information. And while I am not aware of NCCU's b-school curriculum, I am about 95% sure that it is no where similar to that of A&M's which was NATIONALLY recognized.

You're way too sensitive about your sucky HBCU.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by litAKAtor

CLEARLY you haven't - thus your recent post. But it's whatever. You still have failed to provide any factual information to support your original post despite Phrozen and my inquiry as to the same.

And I'm supposed to care about you and Phrozen's "inquiries" because.....

LOL.