Kids at nice restaurants

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Excellent point!

ETA: You're right that the DVD didn't teach the child anything except BAD manners. However, I do think it's important for children to learn how to behave in a nice restaurant, and shouldn't always be exposed to family restaurants. If this child needed a DVD in order to behave, then yes, I agree, she should have been left home with a babysitter rather than disturbing other diners.

Originally Posted by OrchidAlum

Exactly. If the point of the dinner was for Mom and Dad to have a nice, romantic meal, the child should have stayed at home. If the point was for the family to enjoy a meal together, they should have gone to a family restaurant.

A dvd player in a restaurant is simply inappropriate. If you're going to be out somewhere with your kids, you shouldn't ignore them.

I agree on both points AND the general rule I learned is if the establishment does NOT have a child menu, then no young kids. Period.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

What if the sitter is a child molester?

I'd say it was time to find a new sitter in that case.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

LOL true. It's just funny to me how people are so quick to say "the child would've been better off at home with a sitter!" What if the kid has Asperger's or agoraphobia and the parents are slowly trying to help her get more comfortable in new situations?

Well, as the father of a kid who has ADHD and is being tested in a month or so for Aspergers, I can see your point -- No one knows what is really going on except for the parents (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hope they know what is going on. ), and we're getting into dangerous territory by second guessing them. Given my situation described above, I know all too well about judgments from other adults who don't know the whole story.

That said, if it were my kid, he wouldn't be coming to the nice restaurant until he was ready to behave in the manner expected in that restaurant, which presumably would not include watching a movie. (Which may be why my son hasn't been to a really nice restaurant yet.)

[AXO Alum]

We have a very nice restaurant in town that is similar in quality & atmosphere to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse. It is a restaurant that I simply love, as do my parents (and there is not one in their town). So when they come to visit us, they want to eat at least one dinner at this place. Well, they also want to see their grandson. So, the first time we went together, Eli had just turned 3. Eli is a good kid, well behaved (most of the time), but he is a kid - and sometimes, there is just no telling what you'll get from him. I debated & debated about going with him, and finally mom & dad said - let's go, and if he misbehaves, we will take him outside. So we went - and the looks walking in the door scared me to death thinking this was a big mistake. Our waiter was very cordial & pleasant, and attended to Eli as if he were another adult at the table. Eli was on perfect behavior for the whole night. As we were leaving, the waiter commented to me that normally he can't stand to wait a table with a small child, but that our son was welcome any time due to his good behavior. I was very pleased that he mentioned it to me - it certainly made me feel at ease about having brought him in the first place.

As I have said before -- like most people, I was a great mom before I had kids. I get so discouraged when I hear so many young people talk about bratty kids, and how if they had a kid, he wouldn't act like that. There are going to be times that you cannot account for a child's behavior. Sometimes, even the best of circumstances turn ugly & a full fledged fit will occur before you know what is happening. These are the times where you, as a mom, want to crawl into a hole & never be seen again. I am NOT talking about the mom's (and dad's) that sit there & tolerate such behavior -- the ones that say "please don't yell" repeatedly, and keep bribing their kids to be good... I am talking about the ones (like myself) that try to correct the behavior, and if not, we leave. I believe that one of the best ways to teach a child to be polite & show good manners is at a dining establishment that doesn't have a play area! Now while we would much rather frequent Moe's once a week, it doesn't mean that once in awhile, I want to go someplace special & show my son how to behave appropriately in a nicer setting.

I disagree 100% with the DVD player -- even with headphones. You can teach your child the appreciation of dinner conversation versus allowing him or her to watch yet more TV. I was mortified to see a child that couldn't have been more than 15 months at a Cracker Barrel watching his DVD player. Yes, we eat dinner in front of the TV more than I'd like to admit, but I'm not taking it with me to a restaurant!

[dekeguy]

Seems to me that kids should always be welcome at family style restaurants and always be welcome at any restaurant so long as they behave themselves. When I was a kid I was expected to conduct myself well in any place where it was appropriate. My Mom and Dad let us blow off steam at home or in places where kids naturally cut up. However, we were taught from our very earliest years that bad manners would not be tolerated. Going to good restaurants was seen by us as a privelege where we got to try interesting new dishes and be included with adults. It was a really big deal to us to go to grown up places and eat grown up food. We were allowed to go when we were about five and we were "on best behavior". By the time all three were going it was Mom and Dad, and then three of us aged 5,7, and 9.
We spent a lot of time in New Orleans and a trip to Antoine's, Arnaud's, or Gallatoire's was a real incentive to be polite. We got to know good restaurants in St Louis, Chicago, New York, Boston, and Philadelphia, not to mention when Dad was assigned overseas in Europe. Everything was so good we looked forward to dressing and acting the part. Years later Dad told us that it was a simple way of helping us to learn how to conduct ourselves by offering the reward of being included if we played the game and being left with a sitter if we screwed up. Dad told us that these restaurants were expensive but really excellent and that all who dined there were entitled to relax and enjoy their meals without disruptive action on our parts. We thought it was cool that we got in on the good stuff and learned that good food, good conversation, and good ambiance were hard to beat.
When I have a kids of my own I plan to apply much the same approach.

[PenguinTrax]

In the case you describe, yes, she would have been better off at home with a sitter. However, it could be that the sitter canceled on the family OR they were visiting from out of town, you just don't know.

We've taken our 3.5 year old son to some fairly nice restaurants, but only if he is well rested and we bring some quiet activities for him to enjoy (paper & crayons, a book, etc.). He does not eat typical kid food - turns his nose up at chicken nuggets & fries, so working around an 'adult' menu is not an issue. In fact, the other night he devoured an entire artichoke on his own and has been known to out-eat my husband when it comes to salmon roe sushi.

[Tom Earp]

If and when I would go to a Very Posh Resturant, I would not expect Little kids screaming, hollaring, beating silver ware on plates or glasses.

Leave them at home as most parents do not do anything to kids except scream NO!

Infringement works both ways.

Dont screw with My Space Munchins!

[FSUZeta]

when my children were young, if my husband and i wanted to have a nice dinner out, we hired a babysitter. it would really burn me up when we would plan a nice evening out,book a reservation, hire the babysitter, go to a swanky restaurant and be seated at a table next to a young child. i have gone to the expense of hiring a babysitter, why couldn't they? it still chaps my hide when i think of it.

i would usually discreetly request to be seated in another part of the restaurant. children can be taught good manners and how to eat a fancy meal at home. i really resent it when it is done on my time and ruins my special evening.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

when my children were young, if my husband and i wanted to have a nice dinner out, we hired a babysitter. it would really burn me up when we would plan a nice evening out,book a reservation, hire the babysitter, go to a swanky restaurant and be seated at a table next to a young child. i have gone to the expense of hiring a babysitter, why couldn't they? it still chaps my hide when i think of it.

i would usually discreetly request to be seated in another part of the restaurant. children can be taught good manners and how to eat a fancy meal at home. i really resent it when it is done on my time and ruins my special evening.

The last part of Your Post is so true.

If they are not taught manners at home, do not take them out to disturb others who wish to have a nice quiet evening.

[jadis96]

Originally Posted by AXO Alum

As I have said before -- like most people, I was a great mom before I had kids. I get so discouraged when I hear so many young people talk about bratty kids, and how if they had a kid, he wouldn't act like that. There are going to be times that you cannot account for a child's behavior. Sometimes, even the best of circumstances turn ugly & a full fledged fit will occur before you know what is happening. These are the times where you, as a mom, want to crawl into a hole & never be seen again. I am NOT talking about the mom's (and dad's) that sit there & tolerate such behavior -- the ones that say "please don't yell" repeatedly, and keep bribing their kids to be good... I am talking about the ones (like myself) that try to correct the behavior, and if not, we leave. I believe that one of the best ways to teach a child to be polite & show good manners is at a dining establishment that doesn't have a play area! Now while we would much rather frequent Moe's once a week, it doesn't mean that once in awhile, I want to go someplace special & show my son how to behave appropriately in a nicer setting.

I disagree 100% with the DVD player -- even with headphones. You can teach your child the appreciation of dinner conversation versus allowing him or her to watch yet more TV. I was mortified to see a child that couldn't have been more than 15 months at a Cracker Barrel watching his DVD player. Yes, we eat dinner in front of the TV more than I'd like to admit, but I'm not taking it with me to a restaurant!

The difference between your comments and behaviors of many parents I see with children out in resturants is that you said the magic words if he does not behave "we leave". My parents raised both my brother and I by taking us first to family resturants then to nicer ones as our behavior was able to handle it, if one of us had a trantrum then one of my parents left the behaving child with the other parent and the misbahaving one was in the car with mom or dad for the evening. I think that made a lot of sense. We had a consequence when we distrubed other diners. My mother has since told me that she felt like it was not her right to bother other peoples dinner. Sadly, I have a friend who is on the whole a good mother, but when it comes to resturants she will let her child act like a moron. She screams, cries, runs around, etc. Before she had children we were out at a resturant and we saw a child acting like this. I expressed my digust and she replied "well that's how kids learn by watching others, eventually the child will get it." Apparently she has used this on her own kids and they are monsters in resturants. She feels like she is paying to go there and she has "the right" to let her children act any way they want. That is the attitude that bothers me. Maybe it's because I don't have kids I say that, but my mom who raised two children seems to feel the same way, I know because we have discussed it.

I say as long as the child is not disturbing others and behaving fine, but even with headphones having a dvd player in a resturant is distracting and just plain rude. Sitting and coloring quietly fine, but a dvd player crosses the line to me. Frankly if I was in the resturant and paying what I am assuming are high prices for both the meal and the decor of a nice resturant and there was a dvd player next to me, I would ask the management to move my party and then let them know that I was dissatified with my dining experience and let them know why.

[blueangel]

Dekeguy, I agree! My parents used the same approach and it worked.

When I go to a nice restaurant, I expect to have dinner in peace and quiet. That means, nobody yapping on a cell phone at the next table, and no screaming kids or children running around the restaurant.

Having said that, like Dekeguy, I DO believe children should be allowed to eat at nice restaurants with their parents, BUT they must be taught to behave FIRST. Parents should be confident that their child already knows how to act properly in this environment before taking them into a nice eating establishment. This behavior can be taught at home at the dinner table.

I wonder if family restaurants defeat the purpose as so many kids are allowed to misbehave there? I've been to a few with a good friend of mine (who has two young children), and I just can't believe the behavior that some parents tolerate. The kids chase each other around the restaurant, shoot straws at each other, and scream. If this is allowed at a "family restaurant" how does a child understand that it's not acceptable at a "nice" restaurant?

When I was a kid, my parents used to love to eat out alot. We went to some really beautiful restaurants in NYC when I was as young as four years old. I knew the rules, I knew the boundaries, and I knew the consequences if I misbehaved. I wouldn't dare break the rules or I knew I wouldn't be allowed to go out to dinner with them again.

I was not allowed to leave my chair, I was to speak softly, say please and thank you. The rules didn't bother me, because I loved getting to spend a night out on the town with mom and dad. It was a treat. I got to get all dressed up, eat grown up food and have a grown up drink (well, I thought it was.. it was a virgin cocktail). Some of my most cherished memories are these nights out on the town with mom and dad in NYC.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Dekeguy, I agree! My parents used the same approach and it worked.

When I go to a nice restaurant, I expect to have dinner in peace and quiet. That means, nobody yapping on a cell phone at the next table, and no screaming kids or children running around the restaurant.

Having said that, like Dekeguy, I DO believe children should be allowed to eat at nice restaurants with their parents, BUT they must be taught to behave FIRST. Parents should be confident that their child already knows how to act properly in this environment before taking them into a nice eating establishment. This behavior can be taught at home at the dinner table.

I wonder if family restaurants defeat the purpose as so many kids are allowed to misbehave there? I've been to a few with a good friend of mine (who has two young children), and I just can't believe the behavior that some parents tolerate. The kids chase each other around the restaurant, shoot straws at each other, and scream. If this is allowed at a "family restaurant" how does a child understand that it's not acceptable at a "nice" restaurant?

When I was a kid, my parents used to love to eat out alot. We went to some really beautiful restaurants in NYC when I was as young as four years old. I knew the rules, I knew the boundaries, and I knew the consequences if I misbehaved. I wouldn't dare break the rules or I knew I wouldn't be allowed to go out to dinner with them again.

I was not allowed to leave my chair, I was to speak softly, say please and thank you. The rules didn't bother me, because I loved getting to spend a night out on the town with mom and dad. It was a treat. I got to get all dressed up, eat grown up food and have a grown up drink (well, I thought it was.. it was a virgin cocktail). Some of my most cherished memories are these nights out on the town with mom and dad in NYC.

I couldn't agree more with everything you said. I grew up the same way. I'm in San Francisco and we also have some wonderful resturants. I remember going to the Grand Hyatt back in the early 80's (yeah, I'm dating myself) all dressed up wearing a long lacy little-house-in-the-fields dress (it was the style then) and my brothers wearing a dinner jacket and ties (not clip-ons either!) Any who long story short, there were never "tantrums" or any thing like that from us because we didnt act like that at home so why would we act like that in public? Mom would kick our "square little asses" if we did act up anyway... ETA my parents never had to worry about myself and my brothers acting out because she TRAINED us to behave correctly so acting up was never an option.

[RU OX Alum]

I still anything younger than 12 or maybe 10. That is just from my memory of how I was. Going to a nice restuarant was like punishment between 5-10 for me. Family restaurants cater to families with small children so that the finer dining establishments can be enjoyed by people on dates, celebrating graduation, etc.

[BetteDavisEyes]

As long as the child behaves appropriately and isn't bothering anyone with their tantrums and/or screeching, I see no reason why others should be bothered.

I do remember that as a child, my aunt & uncle took me, my cousin, & brother (aged 6, 7, 8) to a VERY fancy french restaurant to celebrate a family engagement. I'm sure the other patrons were horrified to see three young children there but we knew what was expected of us and had a good time. It also greatly helped that the waiter was very kind and gave us Sprite's with cherries in them continuously and treated us like human beings instead of treating us like we were a nuisance.

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle

ETA my parents never had to worry about myself and my brothers acting out because she TRAINED us to behave correctly so acting up was never an option.

That's the way we were brought up. There would be hell to pay if we embarassed my mom or any of our aunts in public.