Pledging . . . or not?

[AGDem]

Originally posted by sdsuchelle
We also don't officially use the term "pledge" -- instead we say "new member". Basically, it means you're afforded all the respect of a regular member, since "pledge" has a negative connotation.

Although I have to admit using the word "pledge" a few times. Oh well.

We do the same thing, it's "new member" and not pledge. However, even when I was a "new member" I still refered to myself as a pledge, it was just easier to say and less confusing to other people. I could care less about the connotations with the word, a new member is the same exact thing. I was never offended if any of the initiated members called me a pledge, although some of them did say "new member" to be politically correct.

[macallan25]

I don't like the term "new member" because well.......you aren't a member yet. You are a pledge. You have to earn the right to call yourself a member. Why refer to yourself as a new member of ______ Fraternity when there is a possibility that your ass could get blackballed at any time?

[shinerbock]

Absolutely. Calling a pledge a "new member" is absurd.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by shinerbock
On a related note, regarding the negative connotations of the term "pledge"... For the most part, anybody who would be put off by the term pledge, for whatever reason, is not one I care about being in my fraternity.

I always suspected that the move away from the word pledge had more to do with PR with the general public rather than with prospective members specifically.

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
also, you PLEDGE your self, loyalty, and honor to your fraternity. Hence the name PLEDGE for one who has made such a PLEDGE and then enter the PLEDGE program and engage in the verb "TO PLEDGE"

Which is why I am glad we still use pledge as a verb, even if we don't use it as a noun anymore -- you become a probationary member by pledging yourself to the Fraternity in the pledging ceremony.

Originally posted by macallan25
I don't like the term "new member" because well.......you aren't a member yet.

I agree. I think that this feeling is part of what is behind the proposal for our National Assembly this summer to replace the term "probationary member" (which at least makes clear that it's probationary and can be revoked) with "candidate."

But from past discussions here, it seems to me that this is a fundamental difference between the approaches of non-NPHC fraternities, NIC or other, and sororities, NPC or other. It seems to me that most fraternities draw a clear line between pledges/associate or probationary members/candidates or whatever and members/brothers, with the chapter retaining the right both to "de-pledge" someone and to have a final vote prior to initiation, and with restrictions such as (perhaps) a prohibition on wearing letters prior to initiation. (Some groups seem more strict about the latter than others.)

It seems that sororities, on the hand, seem use "new member" or some variant on it and, as sdsuchelle said, afford the new member almost all of the privileges of initiated membership.

Mars and Venus, I guess.

[33girl]

UNLDelt, all your posts were awesome.

And there is a BIG difference between "respecting" someone, and their having the same rights and privileges as a fully initiated member. Until you go through that final initiation ceremony - you are NOT a full member. Period. Make things as "PC" as you want, but if our sororities really believed that the minute a girl gets a bid she's equal to the rest of the sisterhood, we would initiate people on bid day instead of waiting 6 weeks.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by 33girl
And there is a BIG difference between "respecting" someone, and their having the same rights and privileges as a fully initiated member. Until you go through that final initiation ceremony - you are NOT a full member. Period. Make things as "PC" as you want, but if our sororities really believed that the minute a girl gets a bid she's equal to the rest of the sisterhood, we would initiate people on bid day instead of waiting 6 weeks.

I suppose this was directed at my comments in response to macallan25, and I'm glad to be corrected if I have over-generalized.

But members of various NPC orgs have specifically stated here at GC that new members in their orgs do have all the rights and privileges of initiated members -- even including the right to vote and hold office -- except for participation in ritual activity prior to initiation. And quite a few more have stated that anything that seperates or draws distinctions bewteen new members from initiated members is considered hazing. That's what I was basing my observation on.

[ADPiShannan]

I agree it is not as great when you are automatically just in and dont have the proper invite.

When a chapter is very low on members or just starting out in a community it is more common now for them to have a lot of people join. We had a few sororities who needed some numbers and one sorority held their own recruitment. We totally supported them and they were able to get a lot of great girls. Granted they did still invite them.

Its just hard when you are either struggling or just new to get the numbers everyone else has. Thats why so many places close down and thats sad. When you do just pick anyone you will infact have bad seeds, but really you always get someone who shouldnt have joined. You dont get to weed people out, but that what pledge process is. If they dont like it or dont fit in, they will probably drop out.

I hate to see new chapters or old chapters struggle so I am all for them doing something to succeed. I know I just want all greek organizations to be very strong and productive so everyone can see what we are all about.

Hopefully this will work for TKE.

[UNLDelt]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
But members of various NPC orgs have specifically stated here at GC that new members in their orgs do have all the rights and privileges of initiated members -- even including the right to vote and hold office -- except for participation in ritual activity prior to initiation. And quite a few more have stated that anything that seperates or draws distinctions bewteen new members from initiated members is considered hazing. That's what I was basing my observation on.

I see what you are saying...

Some may call me insensitive, but when hazing becomes defined in such a way I think it caters to the spoiled and entitled attituteds that some individuals have and bring into our institutions.

Nothing is ever owed to anyone unless they earn it.

And while some would say that's the logic behind real hazing...I say it can also be the logic behind resonable and respectable requirements for membership.

Not many other things that are considered a privilage in this world are treated as handouts. Scholarships, Job opportunities, Recognition for achievement, even the ability to even go to college...are all based on the notion that one must demonstrate qualifications for the higher privilages they seek. They just don't hand out Nobel Prizes on street corners do they...

And if we consider membership in our chapters a privilage for those who demonstrate high ideals...then it too should not be treated as a "freebie". If it is, then it will only dilute the worth of being a member.

What's next. Someone argues that being expected to pay their initiation dues is hazing? Or perhaps even being expected to perform to higher academic standards than the rest of the student body. Soon our high ideals will be replaced by mediocracy and then we have completely lost the foundation of our justification for existance as organizations.

[MysticCat]

^^^ Well said.

[33girl]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
But members of various NPC orgs have specifically stated here at GC that new members in their orgs do have all the rights and privileges of initiated members -- even including the right to vote and hold office -- except for participation in ritual activity prior to initiation.

If you don't participate in ritual activity, you aren't a fully initiated member. You don't have all the rights and privileges because you aren't participating in this activity - participating in initiation is a privilege. I don't care if (and I hope this would never happen) you somehow get voted into an office before your initiation - if for some reason something occurs in that time window between your election and initiation, and you don't initiate, you aren't going to hold that office.

As Yogi Berra said, it ain't over till it's over.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by 33girl
If you don't participate in ritual activity, you aren't a fully initiated member. You don't have all the rights and privileges because you aren't participating in this activity - participating in initiation is a privilege. I don't care if (and I hope this would never happen) you somehow get voted into an office before your initiation - if for some reason something occurs in that time window between your election and initiation, and you don't initiate, you aren't going to hold that office.

Which is why I referred to others saying "all the rights and privileges of initiated members . . . except for participation in ritual activity prior to initiation."

I've got no real argument with what you said, and as I noted, I was merely reflecting what I have seen some NPC org members post here. I still thinks it's a quite a difference -- it frankly seems odd to me for persons not yet initiated to have any rights and privileges of membership.

[33girl]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Which is why I referred to others saying "all the rights and privileges of initiated members . . . except for participation in ritual activity prior to initiation."

I've got no real argument with what you said, and as I noted, I was merely reflecting what I have seen some NPC org members post here. I still thinks it's a quite a difference -- it frankly seems odd to me for persons not yet initiated to have any rights and privileges of membership.

I would like to see links to where you saw people saying that actually...I can't imagine someone getting voted into an office that was still a pledge unless the chapter was super small or recolonizing.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by 33girl
I would like to see links to where you saw people saying that actually...I can't imagine someone getting voted into an office that was still a pledge unless the chapter was super small or recolonizing.

New Member Education: What do you think?, Page 1, fifth post (by adpiucf): "In ADPi, new members hold all the same privileges as initated members, except that they do not participate in ritual until their initaition. Otherwise, they may attend meetings, vote, hold office, wear letters and enjoy all the other rights and whatnot accorded to any member."

I've Had It!, Page 15, fourteenth post (by AXO Alum): "Guess this is because Alpha Chi Omega DOES NOT ALLOW us to have distinctions between SISTERS and NEW MEMBERS ("pledges" huh - hmmm...NPC had a statement about that somewhere....now where is it....I'm looking for it...). It is stated in our constitution and by-laws that once that bid card is signed, then you are considered a SISTER with the same rights and privileges as any other sister. The ONLY exception is that they don't know ritual. PERIOD."

[33girl]

OK then, I'll put this to adpiucf and AXO Alum - has there ever been an instance in either of your groups of an uninitiated member holding an office (other than an office in her pledge class)?

[Tom Earp]

LXA uses New Associate. They are not due Members until Intiation into Our Ritual.

"Pledge" was dropped because it gave a conotation of Servitude.

With todays R M, the smart thing to do is go with the flow.

Do it first.

If You are not sure what Your Insurance Costs are then get off of You dead rears and check to see.

If You do not think that this money could be put to better useage for You Chapter, think again!