Atheists as members?

[Erik P Conard]

I inadvertently mentioned lesbians in my long list of folks who
were initiated in my Fraternity. My fault, mea culpa, senior moment, duh. Thanks for correcting! Duh

[ADSigMel]

Originally posted by Strongbeauty

For instance, if I was to join an org founded on Islamic beliefs and I had to do things that could be even contruded as worshipping Allah (cause clearly my Bible says to shun the appearance of sin), I would not do it. Why? Because I do not serve Allah. That's not to demean anyone, it's just that's not who I serve.

Not to bash you or anything (I actually agree with most of what you said), but, just so you know, "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God." It means exactly the same thing and is exactly the same entity. Just like Dieu and Dios and Deo mean "God" in French, Spanish, and Latin, respectively. So, if you're a Christian, you do serve Allah, you just call it something else. Just FYI.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by frathole
I got balled at the Scientology house for taking Psych 101.

LOL!!

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by ADSigMel
Not to bash you or anything (I actually agree with most of what you said), but, just so you know, "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God." It means exactly the same thing and is exactly the same entity. Just like Dieu and Dios and Deo mean "God" in French, Spanish, and Latin, respectively. So, if you're a Christian, you do serve Allah, you just call it something else. Just FYI.

A statement that requires some caveats, I think.

True that "Allah" is Arabic for God (kin to the Hebrew "El"/"Elohim"), so Christians who speak Arabic will use "Allah" where we would say "God."

But to say it is "the same entity" -- a la "Christians and Muslims worship the same God" is a different matter, I think. That falls more under "PC - can't we all get along" that accomplishes little. In my opinion, it actually hinders healthy dialogue that might lead to better relations because it minimizes honestly-held differences in the name of getting along.

Yes, the Christian and Muslim (and Jewish) understanding of God derive from the same sources -- all can be considered Abrahamic faiths. But, just to give one example (albeit a major one) -- Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God. Muslims, while they honor Jesus as a prophet, consider the Christian belief unacceptable. I worship Jesus Christ, along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit -- one God in three persons, but all completely God. My Muslim neighbor, I do not believe, would consider that he worships the same God I do.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally posted by frathole
It depends on individual chapter traditions I'm sure.

I got balled at the Scientology house for taking Psych 101.

The same thing happened to me. They forced me to deactivate before I reached OT 3.

END TRANSMISSION

[AGPhiBete]

My Sorority was founded upon 'Christian Principles', in the sense of the term's meaning in 1904: It is basically taken to mean, loyalty, dedication, high moral standards...

My chapter has members that are Athiests, Agnostics, Orthodox Jews, Jews, Catholics, Christians, Pagans... I don't think a person's religious affiliation should have any bearing on their membership, provided that a given religion is a part of the organizations tenets.

[ADSigMel]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
A statement that requires some caveats, I think.

True that "Allah" is Arabic for God (kin to the Hebrew "El"/"Elohim"), so Christians who speak Arabic will use "Allah" where we would say "God."

But to say it is "the same entity" -- a la "Christians and Muslims worship the same God" is a different matter, I think. That falls more under "PC - can't we all get along" that accomplishes little. In my opinion, it actually hinders healthy dialogue that might lead to better relations because it minimizes honestly-held differences in the name of getting along.

Yes, the Christian and Muslim (and Jewish) understanding of God derive from the same sources -- all can be considered Abrahamic faiths. But, just to give one example (albeit a major one) -- Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God. Muslims, while they honor Jesus as a prophet, consider the Christian belief unacceptable. I worship Jesus Christ, along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit -- one God in three persons, but all completely God. My Muslim neighbor, I do not believe, would consider that he worships the same God I do.

Yes, that's right. I was referring to God the Father, creator of the Universe as being the Allah to which Muslims refer. However, my point wasn't about what "God" means, it was just to say that when Arab Christians worship, they say "Allah," not "God." So, in that sense, the entity that the poster to whom I replied could call her God by the name Allah, and it would not be wrong. I mean, I guess if she really felt like it, she could call her God "Joe-Bob" and it would still be the same thing as long as she personally knows who she is worshipping. But, in purely linguistic terms, "Allah" = "God."

[shinerbock]

K Star, thats fine, it just means you might not be right for our org. I personally don't care someone's opinion on the "under God" debate, the reason I referenced Newdow is because he is so outwardly opposed to any use of religious reference in the public arena. Someone like that would probably make a similar fuss over some of the things said in our organization, and therefore I'd prefer not have them.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by ADSigMel
Yes, that's right. I was referring to God the Father, creator of the Universe as being the Allah to which Muslims refer. However, my point wasn't about what "God" means, it was just to say that when Arab Christians worship, they say "Allah," not "God." So, in that sense, the entity that the poster to whom I replied could call her God by the name Allah, and it would not be wrong. I mean, I guess if she really felt like it, she could call her God "Joe-Bob" and it would still be the same thing as long as she personally knows who she is worshipping. But, in purely linguistic terms, "Allah" = "God."

Maybe people should figure out, that no Matter what The Supreme Being is called, it is the same thing.

It still boils down to the fact that if a person Associates and is Initiated, they are a Member and hold to those ideals or work within a frame work of The Organization.

[kddani]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Maybe people should figure out, that no Matter what The Supreme Being is called, it is the same thing.

No it is not. That's the point. It can be called by the same name depending on the translation, but it is NOT THE SAME.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by ADSigMel
However, my point wasn't about what "God" means, it was just to say that when Arab Christians worship, they say "Allah," not "God." So, in that sense, the entity that the poster to whom I replied could call her God by the name Allah, and it would not be wrong.

I realize that. I was posting more out of concern for how what you first posted might be construed, rather than what I understood you to be saying as such. I have a little more thought on the matter, but rather than highjack this thread anymore (other than what's below), I've PM'd you.

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Maybe people should figure out, that no Matter what The Supreme Being is called, it is the same thing.

Except that it's not, Tom. To say it is shows disrespect for sincerely-held religious beliefs by glossing over distinctive and differing beliefs rather than by actually trying to understand them. It amounts to ignorance and disrespect masquarading as tolerance and acceptance.

[shinerbock]

Well, he's kinda right. The idea is the same sure, and in Christianity and Judaism, God, Yahweh, is the same. However, for example, Allah and God (Christian) may seem to be as "Supreme Beings" but further examination would lead to the conclusion that they obviously have different characteristics and personalities (referring to God's personality is kinda weird). I think it is Christians who claim the difference, as Muslims have told me that we worship the same God. However, from my religious perspective, Muslims mistakenly attributed their false religious beliefs on to God, and therefore worship what would be a non existant version of my God. For the record, I'm not trashing Muslims, but I had to say that to display how they differentiate for me and probably some other Christians who feel simililarly.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by shinerbock
Well, he's kinda right. The idea is the same sure, and in Christianity and Judaism, God, Yahweh, is the same.

Except that Christians claim that Jesus is YHWH -- something Jews and Muslims would catagorically deny and perhaps even consider blasphemous.

Just as one example.

[shinerbock]

Are you sure? I'm a Baptist, and one time consistant church attender, and I was always under the impression that Yahweh was God the Father. I have always understood that Jews and us have different views on it, that it is not to be spoken aloud by Jewish people, but I've never heard that Christians consider Yahweh to be Jesus.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by shinerbock
Are you sure? I'm a Baptist, and one time consistant church attender, and I was always under the impression that Yahweh was God the Father. I have always understood that Jews and us have different views on it, that it is not to be spoken aloud by Jewish people, but I've never heard that Christians consider Yahweh to be Jesus.

Quite sure. Reread the Gospel of John and see just how many times Jesus equates to himself the title "I Am," which is what YHWH means. As just one example, in John 8:58, Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I am. (It's much clearer in the Greek that he is intentionaly using the "I Am" appellation, but it still comes through in English.)

In Judaism, YHWH is the name of God, which as you said should not be spoken. And in Christianity, God the Father = YHWH, God the Son = YHWH, God the Spirit =YHWH, because even though Father, Son and Spirit are three, they are also one.