UGa: “Alcohol should be covered by the meal plan.”

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Where?

She was talking about Europe, spesifically Germany in her post. In Europe, you have to be 18 for hard liquor and I believe there is a min for beer/wine, but it's not enforced (seeing that there's a beer vending machine on every corner)

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by Little E
The assumption here is that parent's understand control and limits when it comes to alcohol. American culture tends toward wanting, not restraint. Look at the size of our cars, houses, closets etc, we are not good at saying "I don't need". I'm not sure I believe that your average american parents truly understand limits and how to teach that to their children. Until we as an entire society can begin to understand this, there will always be problems.

The thing is, if American parents are incapable of putting aside our cultural tendency toward excess so they can teach their children how to be responsible adults, that is not the problem of universities or fraternal organizations. Why do some parents seem to think they're entitled to have schools and organizations finish the job of raising their kids when they were unable to do so?

[wanderersarah]

Originally posted by KDMafia
That would be the logical way to do it......

True enough. Colleges aren't always that logical though....

The reprecussion aren't that bad for a first offense on my campus, but people still don't what to get 'in trouble'. Bad things happen when no one wants to tell an RA when someone in suffering from alcohol poisoning. My freshman year someone I know asked her friends (in between passing out and puking) to get an RA and take her to the hospital. Her friends didn't take her because *they* were afraid of getting written up. She was okay eventually, but it could have been a lot worse.

[Rudey]

Again, the military is a necessity and self-defense while drinking is a pleasure that is not necessary.

Again, different questions and tasks require different levels of comprehension (and age).

This link is stupid just like the empty phrase "Make love, not war".

You and 33girl are both wrong.

-Rudey

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
How many 18 year olds that go into the military are having their life threatened (on a military level)? What are they fighting back against? And your saying that just because a 5 year old has the capacity to know to fight back when threatened, they are capable of making the decsion to join the armed forces??



So are you implying that the question of whether to enlist is easy, and how much and when to drink is hard?? I realize that different tasks take different aptitudes, and there is not a magic age, but what makes 18 LEGALLY the magic age for enlisting and 21 LEGALLY the magic age for drinking? Whether you agree or not, I believe 33 was stating her opinion, that 18 is not a good age for people to make that decsion.



It's not saying drinking=enlisting. The comparitive is mental capacity of an 18 year old, if they aren't able to make good choices concerning alcohol, which this and several other articles show, how are they supposed to make good choices when it comes to shooting someone??

[saetex]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
How many 18 year olds that go into the military are having their life threatened (on a military level)? What are they fighting back against? And your saying that just because a 5 year old has the capacity to know to fight back when threatened, they are capable of making the decsion to join the armed forces??



So are you implying that the question of whether to enlist is easy, and how much and when to drink is hard?? I realize that different tasks take different aptitudes, and there is not a magic age, but what makes 18 LEGALLY the magic age for enlisting and 21 LEGALLY the magic age for drinking? Whether you agree or not, I believe 33 was stating her opinion, that 18 is not a good age for people to make that decsion.



It's not saying drinking=enlisting. The comparitive is mental capacity of an 18 year old, if they aren't able to make good choices concerning alcohol, which this and several other articles show, how are they supposed to make good choices when it comes to shooting someone??

do the two of you who are posting about all of these military issues have any kind of rational common sense whatsoever? For one, the drinking age in the United States is calculated and set by the Surgeon General at 21 because this is the most accurate lapse in time it takes for one's liver to be fully developed. That is why 21 is considered legal. The "legal" age for someone living in the United States is 18 as it pertains to voting, military service, and the legal system. When you graduate high school you are an adult. Keep in mind that not everyone goes to college. Many people that apply for military service do not always get in. You have to take a test before you are allowed to enlist, its called the ASVAB. You are put into divisions based on your scores. You have to have intelligence to be a marine or part of any combat unit. What do you mean how many 18 year olds are being threatened in battle? Are you unaware of the situation that our country is in right now. Or maybe the Gulf War, or Samalia, or Kuwait. Those in the military make good choices because they are constantly drilled and taught what to do. They are also under constant supervision and scrutiny from their superiors and men who have made a career out of military service. Jesus Christ, do you think that drinking too much can be associated with strategically killing an opposing force. Soldiers who do not follow strict guidelines and protocal concerning engagement set forth by NATO and the US government get court martialed and go to Leavenworth. If you are unaware, that is a military prison. Those decisions far outweigh the "difficult" decisions that some dumbass kid has when faced with a bottle of bourbon. Hmmmm, get sick and throwup or go to prison for a few years? Your arument is so irrational its hard to even refute it.

[FSUZeta]

how right you are rudey and saetex.using their "logic"(18 is the magic number), then 18 year olds should not be going off to college either. comparing alcohol consumption and enlisting in the military is not logical.

the military has intensive and on-going training for both enlisted personnel and officers. they don't casually hand out guns to anyone who shows up at a recruitment center. boot camp weeds out people who can not make the grade, for whatever reason and aptitude tests are given to determine where best a new recruit will succeed.

the drinking age was 18 when i was in college, alcohol didn't seem to be the big deal it is today. maybe that was because of the drinking age. you would still see drunks at football games, but i honestly can't remember seeing my friends plastered on a regular basis. the goal was not to get wasted. maybe the attraction to illegal drinking nowadays is the illegal part?

when young people break the law,pass out at parties, end up in the er having their stomachs pumped, in order to drink alcohol, to me that says that they don't have the maturity to handle the responsibility.

[33girl]

I can't believe I have to explain this.

Enlisting - which is a MUCH BIGGER DEAL than being allowed to have a drink IMO - is allowed at 18. Therefore it's stupid to disallow someone from drinking. It's also stupid to not allow an 18 year old to rent a hotel room or rent a car (2 things which happen regularly). If we are going to say 18 = adult, it should equal adult for everything, not just things that are politically correct.

The drinking age is not "set by the surgeon general" at 21 - if that was the case it would change from SG to SG, and it would be a federal law, which it's not. The states which had a lower drinking age changed it due to political pressure from extremist groups like MADD and due to the Federal Highway Funding Act, which withheld funds from states who didn't have a 21 drinking age. Maybe there's something somewhere that says 21 is the "magic age" at which your liver is fully developed, if so link please.

I've TAKEN the ASVAB. I apparently did so well on it that recruiters kept calling me and calling me, even though I can't think of anyone less suited for military service than me and anyone who wanted to go into it less. So much for the infallibility of that test.

When surgeons study to be surgeons, they don't just read books on it. They practice on corpses and later, on real humans, with a more skilled surgeon watching in case anything goes wrong. We don't expect them to read books and nothing else for 8 years and then do their first open heart surgery. Would you go to a surgeon like that? I wouldn't. We expect that of teenagers with the drinking laws, though. They're not allowed to have a drop of alcohol, they're not allowed to be around it, but when they're 21 they're supposed to magically know how it works, what their limit is, etc. If every single person who drinks underage stopped, it wouldn't stop binge drinking or people dying or barfing or anything like that. It would just make it happen at 21. Then we'd say 21 year olds are too immature to handle it, so it needs to be 23. And round and round, till the drinking age is 75 or so.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by FSUZeta

when young people break the law,pass out at parties, end up in the er having their stomachs pumped, in order to drink alcohol, to me that says that they don't have the maturity to handle the responsibility.

I'm glad ya'll believe that there is no need for responsibility or maturity in the military.

[Rudey]

I can't believe you keep trying to rationalize something that makes no sense.

Again, the military is a necessity and self-defense while drinking is a pleasure that is not necessary.

Again, different questions and tasks require different levels of comprehension (and age).

This link is stupid just like the empty phrase "Make love, not war".

-Rudey

Originally posted by 33girl
I can't believe I have to explain this.

Enlisting - which is a MUCH BIGGER DEAL than being allowed to have a drink IMO - is allowed at 18. Therefore it's stupid to disallow someone from drinking. It's also stupid to not allow an 18 year old to rent a hotel room or rent a car (2 things which happen regularly). If we are going to say 18 = adult, it should equal adult for everything, not just things that are politically correct.

The drinking age is not "set by the surgeon general" at 21 - if that was the case it would change from SG to SG, and it would be a federal law, which it's not. The states which had a lower drinking age changed it due to political pressure from extremist groups like MADD and due to the Federal Highway Funding Act, which withheld funds from states who didn't have a 21 drinking age. Maybe there's something somewhere that says 21 is the "magic age" at which your liver is fully developed, if so link please.

I've TAKEN the ASVAB. I apparently did so well on it that recruiters kept calling me and calling me, even though I can't think of anyone less suited for military service than me and anyone who wanted to go into it less. So much for the infallibility of that test.

When surgeons study to be surgeons, they don't just read books on it. They practice on corpses and later, on real humans, with a more skilled surgeon watching in case anything goes wrong. We don't expect them to read books and nothing else for 8 years and then do their first open heart surgery. Would you go to a surgeon like that? I wouldn't. We expect that of teenagers with the drinking laws, though. They're not allowed to have a drop of alcohol, they're not allowed to be around it, but when they're 21 they're supposed to magically know how it works, what their limit is, etc. If every single person who drinks underage stopped, it wouldn't stop binge drinking or people dying or barfing or anything like that. It would just make it happen at 21. Then we'd say 21 year olds are too immature to handle it, so it needs to be 23. And round and round, till the drinking age is 75 or so.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I'm glad ya'll believe that there is no need for responsibility or maturity in the military.

You are a waste of oxygen.

-Rudey

[saetex]

Originally posted by 33girl
I can't believe I have to explain this.

Enlisting - which is a MUCH BIGGER DEAL than being allowed to have a drink IMO - is allowed at 18. Therefore it's stupid to disallow someone from drinking. It's also stupid to not allow an 18 year old to rent a hotel room or rent a car (2 things which happen regularly). If we are going to say 18 = adult, it should equal adult for everything, not just things that are politically correct.

The drinking age is not "set by the surgeon general" at 21 - if that was the case it would change from SG to SG, and it would be a federal law, which it's not. The states which had a lower drinking age changed it due to political pressure from extremist groups like MADD and due to the Federal Highway Funding Act, which withheld funds from states who didn't have a 21 drinking age. Maybe there's something somewhere that says 21 is the "magic age" at which your liver is fully developed, if so link please.

I've TAKEN the ASVAB. I apparently did so well on it that recruiters kept calling me and calling me, even though I can't think of anyone less suited for military service than me and anyone who wanted to go into it less. So much for the infallibility of that test.

When surgeons study to be surgeons, they don't just read books on it. They practice on corpses and later, on real humans, with a more skilled surgeon watching in case anything goes wrong. We don't expect them to read books and nothing else for 8 years and then do their first open heart surgery. Would you go to a surgeon like that? I wouldn't. We expect that of teenagers with the drinking laws, though. They're not allowed to have a drop of alcohol, they're not allowed to be around it, but when they're 21 they're supposed to magically know how it works, what their limit is, etc. If every single person who drinks underage stopped, it wouldn't stop binge drinking or people dying or barfing or anything like that. It would just make it happen at 21. Then we'd say 21 year olds are too immature to handle it, so it needs to be 23. And round and round, till the drinking age is 75 or so.

Did you take the ASVAB for shits and giggles? Why take it if you are not "suited" for the military. And I didn't say that 21 was some magical number. It was determined through medical experts that many or your functioning organs, including your liver, become fully developed at or closely near that age. Why would they just throw out the age of 21 to a bunch of activists from MADD and the Highway Commission? And I know about the withheld funds, but thanks anyways. If you did well on the test, ofcourse they are going to call you, have common sense. It appears that you have a sever lack there of. Thank you for your essay on becoming a doctor. There are about seven of them in my family, I am quite aware of what it takes to practice medicine. How that pertains to some drunk kid I have no idea. Out of all of my friends, I do not know one that has had a problem with drinking or knowing his limitations. Do you know why? It is because of their upbringing. Their parents and my parents had the common sense to teach me how to socially drink and how to know my limitations before I went off to college. I would say that parents who shelter their children and do not teach them how to function in certain situations are just as responsible as anyone else. That is just my opinion. I also advocate a drinking age of 18. I also think that if you can go to war, you can drink a beer. I just look at it in a completely different perspective than some of the mindless crap that I have read on here.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by Rudey
You are a waste of oxygen.

-Rudey

Go Enlist or get drunk or both.

[ToriForte]

In the past several months, I have devised a rough theory to countereact some of the nationwide problems with binge drinking. As someone who is responsible with alcohol at an early age, I think it's only fair that alcohol be legal to those of a reasonable age that are responsible enough to drink it.

My answer to this problem is an alcohol license - to buy alcohol, one must present their alcohol license, and to obtain this license one must take a course (kind of like driver's ed) in alcohol awareness - the dangers, the effects, the laws, etc... and after the course, take and pass a test... and one can take this course and obtain their license starting at age 18.

I think part of the reason binge drinking is so heavy for underclassmen is that it's taboo - it's not legal, but it's generally glossed over, so they think they can get away with something. I think this sort of program would help alleviate some of the pressure to drink heavily, and also ensure that only those responsible enough (presumably, at least) are drinking. Or at least buying alcohol.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by ToriForte

My answer to this problem is an alcohol license - to buy alcohol, one must present their alcohol license, and to obtain this license one must take a course (kind of like driver's ed) in alcohol awareness - the dangers, the effects, the laws, etc... and after the course, take and pass a test... and one can take this course and obtain their license starting at age 18.

Ok, that's a wonderful idea - in theory.

The problem is that it's just as easy to have your friend who went and did the legal BS and got the permit go buy you a six pack as it is to have one of your friends who is 21 buy it for you when you're under 21. Also, as big of a pain in the arse as it is to go renew my driver's license, I don't want another one that I have to do that for.

ETA: Plus, there are better things my tax money could go for then some lady sitting at a desk babysitting people taking a test so they can go get drunk.

[33girl]

Originally posted by saetex
Did you take the ASVAB for shits and giggles? Why take it if you are not "suited" for the military.

I was forced to take it in high school. Everyone had to take it. If I had been the mouthy bitch I am now, I would have refused. Then again, this was the Reagan era so things were quite different. I'm hoping this is no longer done.

Originally posted by saetex I didn't say that 21 was some magical number. It was determined through medical experts that many or your functioning organs, including your liver, become fully developed at or closely near that age.

Again, link please. This is the first I've heard this theory.

And the rest of your post is agreeing with me, so that works for me. I guess I pissed you off in some way about the military, but that wasn't my intention.

Tori, I like your idea, although I'm afraid without actually "road testing" it might not be as effective.