Advice to rushers: re: legacies

[pinkyphimu]

What has been happening to legacies in the big schools here is that, due to the heavy cuts now required, often among the first to go are girls who are legacies to other groups--especially double legacies or more--the sororities are saying, 'Why waste a space on someone who will surely go to her sister's/mother's sorority?" They get cut by their legacy house and most others early in recruitment, leaving them nowhere to go. I can think of at least 8 PNMs to whom that happened this past fall.

[/B][/QUOTE]

while the origional intent of this thread was a message to chapters about its legacies, i think it is important for other chapters not to discount a legacy with the expectation that she will go to her legacy house.

carnation,
did there seem to be a difference for women you mentioned who were legacies to multiple chapters on campus vs women who were a legacy to only one chapter on campus vs the women who were double legacies to one chapter?

[aephi alum]

It's a shame that legacies are feeling a need to deny their legacy status because they are afraid of being cut by the sororities they're not a legacy to.

I'm reminded of one of my chapter sisters, a fellow founder of my chapter. Her aunt is an AEPhi. The aunt would not allow her daughters to attend any college where there wasn't a chapter of AEPhi. Not one of them actually went AEPhi. The aunt was, of course, disappointed, but I'd like to think her daughters were happy with their decisions - they followed their hearts, and their hearts led them to other sororities. Still, the aunt had her moment - she flew out for our initiation and gave her badge to her niece. (AEPhi does not consider nieces to be legacies.)

I hope that any hypothetical future daughter of mine follows her heart. If she joins AEPhi, great - I'll be at her initiation and proudly pin her with my badge. If not, I will be happy for her as long as she's happy with her decision. If she's cut from AEPhi, yes, I will be annoyed, but it means it wasn't meant to be.

The problem is that, sometimes, when a legacy rushes, there are erroneous expectations all around.

- A legacy has to understand that the courtesy invite to 2nd round is a courtesy to her mother (or whoever) and that she might not get invited back for the next round.
- A legacy has to understand that if the chapter invites her back beyond the courtesy invite, it's because the chapter wants her for who she is, not just because she's a legacy.
- The chapter she's a legacy to has to understand that just because she's a legacy doesn't mean she's a good fit.
- The chapters she's not a legacy to have to understand that she's not automatically going to go to her mother's sorority, and that they're not necessarily wasting a space by inviting her back.
- The mother has to understand that just because she was a good fit for XYZ at University A in 1995, doesn't mean her daughter will be a good fit for XYZ at University B in 2025.
- EVERYONE has to understand that legacy status does NOT guarantee a bid from the legacy sorority!

Absolutely, a sorority should (and is required to) give a legacy special consideration, but if she's not a good fit, she's not a good fit.

[carnation]

while the origional intent of this thread was a message to chapters about its legacies, i think it is important for other chapters not to discount a legacy with the expectation that she will go to her legacy house.

carnation,
did there seem to be a difference for women you mentioned who were legacies to multiple chapters on campus vs women who were a legacy to only one chapter on campus vs the women who were double legacies to one chapter? [/B]

Let's see. Four of these girls were legacies to one chapter--all of their mothers were members of those chapters on the campuses where their daughters rushed. Two were double legacies to one chapter. Two were legacies to 2 chapters on campus.

And every girl, although she was attractive and had tons of activities and was popular in high school, was cut not only by her legacy sorority(ies) but also most of the rest of them after second parties. Four went Greek (although 2 had to COB) and four didn't.

I understand the intent of the new release figures but it's been hell on legacies.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by carnation
Let's see. Four of these girls were legacies to one chapter--all of their mothers were members of those chapters on the campuses where their daughters rushed. Two were double legacies to one chapter. Two were legacies to 2 chapters on campus.

And every girl, although she was attractive and had tons of activities and was popular in high school, was cut not only by her legacy sorority(ies) but also most of the rest of them after second parties. Four went Greek (although 2 had to COB) and four didn't.

I understand the intent of the new release figures but it's been hell on legacies.

If the release figures are wreaking this same havoc on more than one campus, then maybe the NPC should check into it. Granted, many more women are going to college now than say, 50 years ago, but there either IS a legacy system or there isn't!

[alum]

It's too bad there is not a way that only the legacy house would get notified if a PNM was a legacy and not the other GLOs. Somewhat on a need to know basis. Since so many recruitments now have computerized registrations, this doesn't seem like a terribly difficult thing to program. And yes if the PNM is a legacy to 2 different groups, then each group would know about themselves being a leg. but not about the other.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by alum
It's too bad there is not a way that only the legacy house would get notified if a PNM was a legacy and not the other GLOs. Somewhat on a need to know basis. Since so many recruitments now have computerized registrations, this doesn't seem like a terribly difficult thing to program. And yes if the PNM is a legacy to 2 different groups, then each group would know about themselves being a leg. but not about the other.

People would still find out - at recruitment they'll ask "so why do you want to be in a sorority? was anyone in your family in a sorority?"

[STL Kappa]

Originally posted by alum
It's too bad there is not a way that only the legacy house would get notified if a PNM was a legacy and not the other GLOs. Somewhat on a need to know basis. Since so many recruitments now have computerized registrations, this doesn't seem like a terribly difficult thing to program. And yes if the PNM is a legacy to 2 different groups, then each group would know about themselves being a leg. but not about the other.

This is how things work at Mizzou I believe but it always comes out anyway... chapters are so big that someone knows the PNM from high school and knows her family or knows she has an in-house sister somewhere. It seems in most situations that the chapters will know if a PNM is a legacy regardless of whether or not they are given that information with registration.

[FSUZeta]

well, say that a legacy is going across the country to college and will be participating in a traditional, competitive , southern rush. literally noone knows the girl on campus. would anyone suggest that she leave the sorority affiliation blank on her recruitment app.?

she would have recs. to all of the houses, including her legacy house.

what if she has several legacy houses? say her mom in one, her grandmother in another, one sister in a third and one sister in a fourth? do you think that that would make a difference to the chapters? do you think that she would still be considered a risk to all those legacy houses or to the non-legacy houses?

[alum]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
well, say that a legacy is going across the country to college and will be participating in a traditional, competitive , southern rush. literally noone knows the girl on campus. would anyone suggest that she leave the sorority affiliation blank on her recruitment app.?

she would have recs. to all of the houses, including her legacy house.

what if she has several legacy houses? say her mom in one, her grandmother in another, one sister in a third and one sister in a fourth? do you think that that would make a difference to the chapters? do you think that she would still be considered a risk to all those legacy houses or to the non-legacy houses?

No, what I'm saying is that the computer program would let the the Theta house that the PNM is a double legacy through a grand-mother and sister at Theta and the Kappa house would be told the PNM is a Kappa legacy through her mother. The Greek Office would see the overall printout but not the individual non-legacy group.

In terms of talking during rounds, I'm not sure how that could be addressed.

[FSUZeta]

i believe that the university of central florida makes enough copies to equal the number of chapters on campus, and they manually cover up the legacy affiliation if it does not apply to that particular chapter.

maybe adpiucf or ztangel could expand on this?

[irishpipes]

Originally posted by wildcatsKSU
I am a little torn on my opinion of legacies. Yes i think that it is fair for them to recieve "special consideration" but at the same time if the chapter doesnt like the legacy then whats the point of keeping them around? Even though someone might be a legacy she may not be a good fit for the chapter.

To play devil's advocate a little...

One point of keeping a legacy around could be money. If you cut a member's daughter, grand-daughter, or sister, I would guess that the chances of that alumna giving money to your chapter or your GLO have gone down the tubes. (Not every alumna would react that way, but it would be hard to know which ones would.)

I'm just speculating though, not speaking from experience.

[FSUZeta]

well, i CAN speak from experience. I advised a chapter when i lived in oklahoma, and the exact thing happened. zeta alums daughter pledged another house, and zeta alum would have nothing to do with the zeta collegiate chapter or alumnae chapter after that. she was quite nasty when i called to invite her to an alumnae event, and i had never even met the woman.

[ISUKappa]

I was a legacy to Kappa via my sister and I believe that I was cut very harshly after 10-party day at my campus because of this fact. I didn't know at first if the chapter was the best fit for me (and even sometimes after I was in the house I had doubts, but we all do at one time or another) but I did love it. And I knew it wasn't automatic I would be in.

As an adviser, I have had to field calls and letters from angry or disappointed sisters, mothers and grandmothers about how their legacy was not given a bid to the chapter. I do my best to explain to them and the chapter that while we give legacies extra courtesy and consideration, the chapter might not be the best fit. Nonetheless, some of these women have cut ties completely to the fraternity (not just the chapter or alumnae association) because of these situations.

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by STL Kappa
This is how things work at Mizzou I believe but it always comes out anyway... chapters are so big that someone knows the PNM from high school and knows her family or knows she has an in-house sister somewhere. It seems in most situations that the chapters will know if a PNM is a legacy regardless of whether or not they are given that information with registration.

I realize I'm kind of an unusual case, but a system like this would've totally worked for me--my sister is 13 years older, went to a different school, and (because we're actually stepsisters) we have different last names. If I had chosen not to mention on my rush application that I was a legacy, I doubt anyone would've ever known.

[adpiucf]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
i believe that the university of central florida makes enough copies to equal the number of chapters on campus, and they manually cover up the legacy affiliation if it does not apply to that particular chapter.

maybe adpiucf or ztangel could expand on this?

That is correct, but human error does occur, and sometimes the wrong chapters receive the clean copy.

Also, it is a very Panhellenic campus, and people know whose younger sisters are coming through recruitment. In one case, an ADPi legacy came through with the intent not to join ADPi, as she wanted to do her own thing and her sister was a current collegian. Through her sister, she had strong relationships with members of other sororities. These girls fought hard for her, but she was dropped because of her sister being well-known and well liked and a current member of ADPi. At the end, the sister joined ADPi and was actually really happy about the decision, but I feel she got cut hard early on because of her legacy status. Conversely, we recruited another young lady that year who was a triple legacy to another sorority, and we were very excited to have gotten her, for her own attributes and the thrill of "stealing" someone else's leg... So I guess it plays both ways.