Good-bye Tookie - Page 3

AGDee · #31 12-13-2005, 06:43 AM

I guess my mom's teachings over the years sunk in.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Killing someone because they killed someone else (or 2 people, 4 people or 100 people) doesn't make it right. If it is self defense at the time, that's a protective, survival instinct (although I don't think I could do it under any circumstance).

It is well known that states who implemented the death penalty saw no difference in crime rate. That is what is meant by deterrant. Tookie wasn't going to kill anybody else and he may have been preventing others from doing it in the future. Even in cases where the inmate is still a violent person, keeping them in isolation would prevent the possibility of them killing again.

Take away due process from this and then we kill even more innocent people. If it is found that someone is innocent after they were executed, who do we execute then? The executioner? The jury? The prosecuting attorney?

Rudey · #32 12-13-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kstar
So they don't deserve their due process?

Also, many appelate courts have overturned rulings, found new (exonerating) evidence, and/or found bias or procedural misconduct in the earlier trial.

There are still cases being found where people that have already been put to death are innocent. I know of one case where a state had to pay millions of dollars to a victim's (yes, they are a victim in this case, as they were innocent) family, when the family brought a wrongful death suit against the state.

Also, the goal of the penal system is rehabilitation. The death penalty was originally intended for those that could not be rehabilitated. Now, unfortunately it is all about vengence.

Did you know that we're the last major industrialized nation that performs the death penalty and we have the highest crime rate?

No the goal is not just for rehabiliation. Where do you get this stuff???

You keep throwing wrong facts out there. Incredible.

-Rudey

Rudey · #33 12-13-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AGDee
I guess my mom's teachings over the years sunk in.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Killing someone because they killed someone else (or 2 people, 4 people or 100 people) doesn't make it right. If it is self defense at the time, that's a protective, survival instinct (although I don't think I could do it under any circumstance).

It is well known that states who implemented the death penalty saw no difference in crime rate. That is what is meant by deterrant. Tookie wasn't going to kill anybody else and he may have been preventing others from doing it in the future. Even in cases where the inmate is still a violent person, keeping them in isolation would prevent the possibility of them killing again.

Take away due process from this and then we kill even more innocent people. If it is found that someone is innocent after they were executed, who do we execute then? The executioner? The jury? The prosecuting attorney?

Execute all of them. I don't believe in the death penalty because people make mistakes. If their own lives are on the line, they will be absolutely sure.

-Rudey

33girl · #34 12-13-2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
No the goal is not just for rehabiliation. Where do you get this stuff???

You keep throwing wrong facts out there. Incredible.

-Rudey

I have to agree with Rudey on this.

It's not just to rehabilitate, it's to PENALize you (get it?) when you do something wrong. Rehabilitation is a very recent development. The founding fathers didn't give a crap about it, that's for sure.

Rudey · #35 12-13-2005, 11:19 AM

The people that supported Tookie, including all the celebrities, made me actually want his execution. The same with Mumia.

-Rudey

KSig RC · #36 12-13-2005, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kstar
Did you know that we're the last major industrialized nation that performs the death penalty and we have the highest crime rate?

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc?

-RC
--not to pile on, but sheesh

KillarneyRose · #37 12-13-2005, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
The people that supported Tookie, including all the celebrities, made me actually want his execution. The same with Mumia.

-Rudey

I hear Scott Peterson is available for promotional opportunities. Maybe the celebrity leftists can take up his cause next?

Rudey · #38 12-13-2005, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
I hear Scott Peterson is available for promotional opportunities. Maybe the celebrity leftists can take up his cause next?

Oprah interviewed him prior to his book release by Harper Collins.

-Rudey
--He's just misunderstood and can help women in the future.

Kevin · #39 12-13-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc?

-RC
--not to pile on, but sheesh

Which celebrities that made statements also happen to have movies coming out very soon?

(I can't think of any who don't)

hoosier · #40 12-13-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kstar

There are still cases being found where people that have already been put to death are innocent. I know of one case where a state had to pay millions of dollars to a victim's (yes, they are a victim in this case, as they were innocent) family, when the family brought a wrongful death suit against the state.

This may be an urban legend, but I don't think it's true.

If there actually was a single case, Mike Farrell and Snoop Dog would have made sure we heard about it (repeatedly)

Does Farrell have a movie coming out?

RACooper · #41 12-13-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hoosier
This may be an urban legend, but I don't think it's true.

Fine, I'll name one - Ruben Cantu
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120200146.html

AKA_Monet · #42 12-13-2005, 05:04 PM

Y'all are surprisingly nice today. Not so much facist rhetoric going around, just the usual "do the sentencing" thing...

However, I do think most, if not all the media that were allowed to "share in the experience of an execution"--especially for the first-timers, were quite disgusted by the whole process.

I dunno what I think about the victim's families. They will probably feel justice has been served.

But, knowing how LA groupthink works, especially in South Central LA, do NOT allow A BREACH of innocence regarding Tookie to invade--not even it's appearance to come to light...

Because although many denied it during the "vigils", all I got to say is "burn baby burn". That is the only way the SSchwarzenegger will understand...

However, there will be plenty of money to be made from the gansta rappers--especially since Lil' Eazy E, the Prince of Compton, is coming out with his album...

And who knows, Fiddy Pennies might die tryin' to get rich with a shift in rap.

The thing I worry about is the kids headed in a dangerous direction. Most of you folks ever have been to or lived in the 'hood of Florence, Normandy and Crenshaw...

It will be different than 1992 though... But oh well... Either way, LA as well as California will have issues to deal with...

Then again, maybe you all are right. Nothing will happen. It never does. It doesn't really matter. It makes no difference. Same as it ever was.

Which is why I am sick of all of this...

hoosier · #43 12-14-2005, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
Fine, I'll name one - Ruben Cantu
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120200146.html

Hope it's not true, but the key word is 'suspect':

"Opponents of the death penalty suspect that Cantu may be what they have long expected to find: an innocent person put to death"

Kevlar281 · #44 12-21-2005, 05:41 AM

http://www.zombietime.com/tookie/

Interesting photo commentary on the Tookie protests and by interesting I mean funny.

kstar · #45 12-21-2005, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hoosier
This may be an urban legend, but I don't think it's true.

If there actually was a single case, Mike Farrell and Snoop Dog would have made sure we heard about it (repeatedly)

Sorry, apparently the case I was thinking about was a wrongful imprisonment/malicious prosectuion, of a guy who sat on death row for 20 years for a rape/murder. The state had refused DNA testing be done, and later when he paid for it, it set him free.

He did win the lawsuit against the state.