KSK at Harding hazers "disbanded"

[Koinoinia]

First thing is, Tripod 3, we come from different times.. I am at Harding now, you are not. I know a lot of these guys. I see who they are outside and inside of the school... I see who they are during stupid club sports and during chapel. I may fail to represent all of them accurately, but I did say...

I never liked Kappa Sigma Kappa... they got on my nerves.. well most of them did.. there were one or two good guys... And if I offended anyone or made anyone mad, it was unintentional. I just wanted to come onto this forum and inform others about Harding and our social clubs (at least what I know of it).

The other thing is... they knew the rules before pledge week. They knew that if they did something against Harding rules, they would get reprimanded for it. And if very few of the members were involved, they should have had more respect for the rest of their brothers and refrained from things they knew Harding would consider hazing.

Anyway. You have a right to your opinion, Tripod 3.

[Tripod 3]

Thank you for your reply. You are showing exactly to me what is still wrong with Harding. Which is that despite being a Christian university still has many people that fail to show a Christian attitude. It is much easier for Harding to disband the Sigs than it is to show forgiveness and understanding that true Christians have to the rest of the world. And you my dear, do you really know the young men involved? Enough to call them jerks? Or did you make a judgement based upon appearences and quick actions? It truly is a shame. I hope Harding gets it straight by the time my kids are college age. Oh, and by the way, regardless of when I was there, the view of the Kappa Sigs has always been the same. So, don't tell me I don't know what is going on there. Thanks. God bless you and all the Harding students.

[Koinoinia]

I know that an african american guy tried to pledge them and received a bid. On the day that pledges were to pick up their bids, the PRESIDENT of kappa sigs called him and told him not to accept the bid. The guy that this happened to is a good guy--he didn't deserve to be treated like this.

Don't presume to know me, Tripod 3. That was wrong of the president and I have seen other Kappa Sigs members do things quite similar to this particular incident. The biggest reason that I refer to them as jerks is that I have seen so many acts of racism from several of their members--a few things have happened to some of my closest friends. You and I have witnessed different situations. You may be friends with some of them, but at this particular time, the rumors of Kappa Sigma Kappa happen to be true. And in this case, you really DON'T know what's going on. I did say that there were one or two nice guys in the club, but from what I know of the majority of the club, they are jerks.

I never said we shouldn't forgive the people that have done things to give the club a bad name. And yes, disbanding them was the right option for Harding. The rules are:

"When it appears a rule of conduct or procedure, in the case of an individual or social
club, has been broken, the director of student life along with the office of the assistant
vice-president/dean of students shall conduct an investigation. If, as a result of the
investigation, they determine that disciplinary procedures are warranted, the student or
social club will be asked to appear before this staff. After the meeting, the student or
social club will be informed in writing of the specific charge(s) being made, the penalty
imposed and the right to an appeal before the Student Services Committee.
DISCIPLINARY SANCTIONS
Any or all of the following can be imposed for a given infraction:
1. Warning: a written or verbal reprimand.
2. Disciplinary Probation: probation for a specified period of time. It may carry with
it other conditions to be met (e.g., restriction of participation in club sports,
functions or other activities).
3. Special Action: designed to enhance the educational intent of the disciplinary
process. Examples include: fines, community service, etc.
4. Suspension of some or all club activities for the remainder of the semester or
remainder of the year. For flagrant violations, violations after warnings or
multiple violations.
5. Disbandment of club: for high-handed and repeat offenders, despite disciplinary
warnings."

They knew the rules... they are in the rule book... And at this point in time the members of the club and the deans know more about the situation than either of us, Tripod 3. So get over your "what is wrong with Harding" mindset and think about the situation.... there is so much you don't understand. Honestly. And insulting me won't make you any happier, because I really do not care what you have to say about me.

Thank YOU!
God Bless You.

~Koinonia (yes I mistyped when I created this account)

(KOINONIA means Christian fellowship or communion with God or with fellow Christians; said in particular of the early Christian community... incase you wondered)

[Tripod 3]

Koinonia,

Trust me, I do not presume to know anyone. However, it does appear that you presume to know the quality of the people associated with the Sigs. So as not to digress any further...I'll leave you to live with your own judgement.

To get back on point, you have included the rules that Harding has set up for "hazing" activities. These are the types of rules that exactly make my point. My point is that Harding, while trying to be a Christian university, is extremely strict! Trust me, I have seen the university expell people for very dumb reasons. And while I do not know exactly what happened in this situation, will anyone ever know?, Harding's track record is not very stellar. I truly hope that a forgiving spirit returns to that school very soon. We certainly can all represent a Christian spirit better than Harding has.

I thank you very much for your opinion. I truly hope you enjoy your time at Harding. It is a great school. However, I hope the school can be a better repesentitive of Christianity to the college community. I don't think in any of my comments I truly insulted you. If that is what you gathered from my comments, than I am sorry. It certainly was not my intention to insult you. But, I feel that in this situation and in many others I've seen and been in at Harding, the school can do a better job at represent Christ. "He who has no sin..."

Please, keep me informed of the situation there. Although, from what I currently know, I disagree with your opinion, this does not mean that my opinion wouldn't change. And certainly, no one should every get over there "what is wrong with Harding" mindset. To make the university great, it should be constantly evaluated. Am I right?

So, with all that being said, nothing about this situation makes me happy. Obviously, the club did something that wasn't on the mark. And certainly, the university could do a lot better at forgiveness. I feel that your intial comments were a quite harsh and sounded extremely judgemental. I wanted to make sure that others reading this board did not get the wrong idea about the social clubs at Harding.

Once again, good luck in all you do at Harding. Hopefully this situation will not cast a negative light on Harding (although, in a lot of places it already is). And yes, I knew what Koinonia meant. There is a camp here of the same name. Thanks again.

God Bless.

Tripod 3

[Koinoinia]

Please, keep me informed of the situation there. Although, from what I currently know, I disagree with your opinion, this does not mean that my opinion wouldn't change. And certainly, no one should every get over there "what is wrong with Harding" mindset. To make the university great, it should be constantly evaluated. Am I right?

What you are looking for you will find. If you are constantly looking for the negative, you will surely find it. If you are looking for things that could be changed to make something better, then you will find that too. It depends on your attitude when you are evaluating.
If you are only looking for what is wrong with Harding you will find all the negative apects.


Anyway. Thank you for your insight and opinion. This has been interesting.
God Bless. Have a wonderful week.

~Koinonia

[And just so you know, I was not mocking your intelligence when I gave you the definition of Koinonia... someone in another forum asked and I was just helping out.. ]

[Tom Earp]

If they screwed Up then They desearved to be punished!

Am I that Far Wrong?

[Koinoinia]

Tom Earp, Thank you. That is what I have been trying to say... they knew they rules, broke them anyway, so they should be punished. If the club I am a queen for had messed up, I would of expected them to be punished, too.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
not to Tom Earp... just to anyone caring to read another (SMALL) response to an earlier post..


I don't think Harding should be looked down on because she is sticking by her rules. How is it wrong when a university actually supports and upholds her guildelines and standards?

[Tripod 3]

Koinoinia,

Thanks for your response. Understand this, I am certainly not looking for anything negative from Harding. Once again, I think it is a great university. I had a great time while I was there. My wife attended there, along with most of my closest friends. But, what I am telling you is that the respose Harding gave in this instance (on Little Rock news, newspaper articles, etc.) has been viewed by many alumni and others as being in very poor taste. I have seen Harding punish people who didn't deserve to be punished more times than I ever imagined a Christian university would. And the feeling out here in the world away from Harding is that they certainly did not show much a Christian attitude in disband the club. I certainly hope that Harding can recover from this quickly. I would hate see such a great university lose students over this.

Tripod

[EJM23]

Within the last few years I attended Harding and was involved in a social club. I originally came to Harding to play football, not for the social, spiritual or academic aspect that Harding claims to have. I found the majority of students at Harding to be extremely judgmental, and ignorant concerning what the Bible says about certain issues, using what their parents have told them as a foundation rather than scripture. I transferred to Auburn University after a semester (close to 12x bigger than Harding, and yes, a public university). Believe it or not, the friends I have here have better spiritual foundations than most at Harding and the social experience of a bigger school has been way more beneficial. I planned on pledging from the start, and I'm from the southeast so I know how serious they take things here, I knew that hazing was a possibility. I stumbled upon this msg board and found it hilarious how uneducated some people are about hazing. I do not condone hazing. However, the military hazes (yes, i understand men in fraternities aren't being trained for war, but it's a growth experience regardless and there's a lot that people don't understand), and 48 of the top 50 CEOs in America belonged to Fraternities (and yes were probably hazed.) Hazing can be classified as anything as having pledges drive actives around, having to be at events early in the morning, even having pledges get information about actives lives such as hometowns and interests is considered hazing. I am a brother in the nations largest fraternity and am in the second largest chapter nation wide, and never was i asked to eat anything, drink anything, consume alcohol or anything extreme like i'm sure most of you think goes on during pledge ship. Pledging is a great experience and though it is extremely busy, you form lasting friendships and are humbled and although I do not condone hazing I think in the long run it's beneficial, if you have never been through a tough pledge ship, you would never understand. I know that most people at Harding look down upon national organizations ( ex. SAE, Sigma Chi, SigEp) but the bond goes beyond the University. I have had job offers at big firms run by alumni of my fraternity, we've received significant financial assistance from alumni to fund our philanthropy events (all contributions going to make a wish foundation)... So many beneficial things come out of being a part of a national organization, and yes there are guys that match the stereotype of a "frat guy" but there are at Harding too. I am not trying to say one is better than the other, but it seems to be everyone on this board is a harding alum and knows little about fraternity/sorority life. I feel bad for the sigs as they had their brotherhood taken away from them for probably a ridiculous reason, being that harding is a ridiculously strict and borderline judgmental university.