Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince Discussion

[fire1977]

Originally posted by sailorchicDG
I just finished…


I totally believe this theory. I always thought that DD explination of Harry’s link to Voldomort (in bk 1 or 2) to be pretty weak. I like the idea much better that Harry has part of V’s soul in him. This would explain the Parsletounge, and the dreams, slipping into V’s subconscious, similarities to Tom Riddle (determination, skill, ect.), and Harry’s ability to sense V through the scar. The scar could be V’s entranceway to the Horcux.

Another theory to add. Don't forget that the sorting hat almost placed harry in slytherin, I still think that's important. Additionally, hasn't it bothered anyone else that Harry was able to open the Chamber of Secrets? JK has hinted that there was more to CoS than meets the eye, and I don't think it's just the Horcrux. However, I can't quite figure out why Harry wouldn't have been able to control the basilisk.

I should add that I don't think Snape will have ANY sort of character redemption by the end of the book, but I could believe that Draco might.

If anyone hasn't read them - I highly suggest reading the Harry Potter guides by, I think it's by "Galadriel Waters". They analyze everything in the books and have some great hints on the text. I didn't realize how in depth JK's text was until I read these. There's a big one for books 1-4 and then a smaller one for OotP. Going on what I've learned from those books - I'd like to know what Professor Trelawney started to say about Harry being a good "Object...." she's always right you just have to decipher what she sees and not listen to her interpretation! And it's held true so far that anytime JKR interrupts a character, that she's covering up an important clue to the story!

[ms_gwyn]

I am still typing out my thoughts to HBP, but I did want to add a few things....

Is that the books by wizarding world press? if so, I have them, but I have yet to sit down and read both side by side with the HP books.

Also remember, Dumbledore thought Harry to young to handle everything all at once, so he abbreviated is theories and thoughts.

Along those same lines....Dumbledore did tell Harry that LV did leave a little bit of himself behind in Harry, that is why he's a parseltongue..

I will have to read it again to get more, but I have some pretty strong theories and so far most of my theories about HP have been spot on.

[polarpi]

Originally posted by EtaEpsilove
One thing that really stuck out to me ---Harry did not fight Voldemort at all in this book. While we learned a ton about V., we still never saw him. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this is the first book where we don't meet/see/overhear Voldemort!

Maybe I'm confusing the movie and the book, but didn't we *not* see/meet/overhear Voldemort in Prisoner of Azkaban? I just tried to do a quick skim, but I can't find anything besides Trelawney's prediction that mentions LV, and then it just relates to Pettigrew.

Yes, I'm an odd one who doesn't mind seeing spoilers before actually reading the book... (for me, it builds up the suspense, I guess! )

[madmax]

Kids today are so freaking lucky. They actually get to read books that are interesting. I was stuck reading about some geek named Holden Caufield.

The hot female teachers also put out. Back in the day, I used to have to walk 2 miles to get drunk and have sex.

[sugar and spice]

Okay -- continuing on with the "Why did Snape kill Dumbledore?" theory, we discussed this on a different board I post on. Many of them theorized that Dumbledore was silently begging Snape to kill him in that scene. After all, Dumbledore pleading for his life? It makes no sense coming from a guy who has said, "Death is but the next great adventure" and even had that talk with Harry in the cave about how people only fear death because it's the unknown, and that we shouldn't fear it. This also jives well with the fact that Harry calls Snape a coward later, and Snape freaks out: "I am not a coward!" If he had killed Dumbledore -- when he didn't really want to, but knew that he had to -- that would probably explain his reaction there.

Basically, the idea was that Dumbledore spent a lot of time stalling Draco so that Snape could show up, and that the fact that he wanted Snape to kill him was so that Draco wouldn't have to -- to set Draco's redemption in motion.

I'm not sure how I feel about this theory, considering that I figure Book Seven will include a suspenseful Snape/Harry face-off where Harry learns more about the Snape/Dumbledore relationship, and if the above speculation ends up being true, the only proof we will ever have that Snape isn't bad is his own word, which I don't think Harry will accept easily. Still, I think it makes more sense than the idea that Snape is a "bad guy."

[Wine&SilverBlue]

Do you think Snape is good or bad? I can't decide.

As much as I dislike him, I think I'd rather have him turn out good - it would make Dumbledore's death not as bad.

These are some theories I've heard:

- Snape doesn't really kill DD, he says avada kedavra but is thinking a different spell that stuns him or something instead. snape is really good at the silent spells, and avada kedavra only works (according to snape) if you really really want to kill that person.

- DD and Snape make eye contact - DD could be telling Snape to kill him silently (they are both .. er.. that L word - legilimus? I can't remember how to spell any of these HP words lol). DD knows he's going to die anyway (from the potion) and if Snape "kills" him, the death-eaters will be convinced that Snape is still on their side (which will keep him as a spy for the order)

technically those 2 can combine into one

- DD died but isn't really gone, bc of that thing in book 2 about him never really leaving hogwarts as long as someone there believes in him/agrees with him/something like that.

- Snape didn't want to kill DD but had to because of the Unbreakable Vow


seriously though, I can't really see DD begging Snape not to kill him. He never seemed scared of death (always said it was just the next step). Hmmm

[midwesterngirl]

Originally posted by fire1977

I'm inclined to believe that Harry's scar is a Horcrux, because of the "only a true Gryffindor" comment from Chamber of Secrets as well as Dumbledore wondering what object of Gryffindor's that Voldemort could possible have placed the Horcrux in.

I disagree. Voldy's intention was to kill Harry.The scar resulted because he couldn't do just that. Remember after the killing curse backfired,he totally lost his physical being.He was basically powerless.I don't think he could have. I think because you have to mean the curses,he put all his hate into it.

Before this book came out,one of the things JK said was that the mirror that Sirius gave Harry was going to play a bigger part in later books. Since it didn't do anything in this book,I guess that means the final book. I think Dumbledore gave that mirror to Sirius. maybe that is DD version of a horcrux.

[Beryana]

Okay, here are some of my theories - since I have had a few days to digest the book and start my 2nd read-thru!

1. Dumbledore KNEW he was going to die. I actually think that Snape told him somehow about LV's plans to have Draco kill him. Why else was he SO adament about making sure Harry knew all the stuff about LV and what made LV what he was/is? DD also knew that Harry was ready to face LV on his own because Harry now has the knowledge of HOW to rid the world of LV - and without LV the Death Eaters are really a non-issue. DD also kept telling Harry that Hermione and Ron NEED to know what has been going on - because DD KNEW that he was not going to be there for the support that Harry needed but that Ron and Hermione would be there for him and had the maturity to stick by him when the going got rough (as they have been).

2. I really think that Snape is still a good guy and that he was protecting Draco by killing DD. Snape was hesitant about make the final unbreakable vow with Narcissa but he did. Snape KNEW that when all things came down to it, Draco would not be able to kill DD - basically Draco got in over his head. Draco and Narcissa act tough, but I really don't think they are able to truly act out that toughness when it is at the extreme (killing and innocent in cold-blood).

3. I do not think that Harry (or his scar) is a horcrux. Why would LV continually try to kill Harry if he were? My understanding is that you actually have to MAKE something a horcrux, not just kill someone (though the sybolism of the horcrux is GREAT!). There is also the problem that either LV would have to kill Harry and thus kill his final chance at immortality OR Harry would have to commit suicide (I really do see that as an option in a kid's book) OR Ron or Hermione would have to kill Harry AFTER Harry defeats LV. Harry knows that the last 'piece' he needs to destroy is LV himself - and we know that he will do everything he can.

4. With regards to the locket, the only mention in book 5 is that they found a heavy locket while they were cleaning. Did they throw it out? Did Kreacher take it? Was it still in the room and Mundugus take it? Personally, I think Kreacher has it. By the way, I agree that it was a Black - and possibly on of the reasons Regulus was killed.

I do think this is a rather good book. It answers some questions and leaves others unanswered (James and Lily's history as well as their families'). The next two years will just be time to read through all 6 books and pick up hints left in them all!

Sarah

[Lindz928]

Originally posted by sugar and spice

Basically, the idea was that Dumbledore spent a lot of time stalling Draco so that Snape could show up, and that the fact that he wanted Snape to kill him was so that Draco wouldn't have to -- to set Draco's redemption in motion.

I agree pretty much (or maybe all) with what you're saying here.

I know that Dumbledore was weakened, but couldn't he have EASILY still taken care of a 16-year-old boy who is scared out of his mind?

Dumbledore is very good at the nonverbal spells- it seems to me that he could easily have either summoned his own wand and then used the disarming charm on Draco without speaking. Even in his condition.

I definately think that Dumbledore knew what was going to happen- and I also agree that he was NOT begging Snape to spare his life. Ya'll are all right on on that point as far as I can tell.

I am loving all of the great discussion and ideas that are going on about HBP. I can't wait until JKR starts giving more hints and ideas about book 7!

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Yes, but...............

If Dumbeldore's point was for Snape to continue being a spy, there would need to be someone for Snape to report the findings to. Since he has now killed Dumbeldore, most (if not all) of the wizarding world hates him and would like to kill him, so there's no one who is going to believe that he is spying on LV so there's no point. He can "spy" all he wants, but he has no one that will believe him and act on what he sees.

If that makes any sense.............

Voldemort likes "trophies", so the horcruxes are going to be trophies. I wonder if Lily was wearing something the night she was killed. THAT would make a "Gryffindor" horcrux. And quite meaningful to Harry too.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

And of course Dumbledore knew what was going to happen. He always knew everything that was going on. His death was probably quite planned. He probably even thought it was quite "clever".

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally posted by Wine&SilverBlue

- Snape doesn't really kill DD, he says avada kedavra but is thinking a different spell that stuns him or something instead. snape is really good at the silent spells, and avada kedavra only works (according to snape) if you really really want to kill that person.

Dumbledore's picture now resides in the headmasters office with all the previous headmasters/mistresses that have died. I think it's safe to say that DD is dead.

[JenMarie]

Originally posted by Beryana
3. I do not think that Harry (or his scar) is a horcrux. Why would LV continually try to kill Harry if he were? My understanding is that you actually have to MAKE something a horcrux, not just kill someone (though the sybolism of the horcrux is GREAT!). There is also the problem that either LV would have to kill Harry and thus kill his final chance at immortality OR Harry would have to commit suicide (I really do see that as an option in a kid's book) OR Ron or Hermione would have to kill Harry AFTER Harry defeats LV. Harry knows that the last 'piece' he needs to destroy is LV himself - and we know that he will do everything he can.

After reading "Horcruxes," I was dead set on thinking that Harry was holding one. However your idea was the very idea that was giving me doubt. DD said that all Horcruxes need to be rid of before LV can die. So essentially, if Harry were one, he'd have to die before LV... then there would be no one to kill LV... unless it was some sort of combined effort. However, the Horcrux kinda supports the "hybrid" theory that was mentioned in the Speculation thread a while ago.

Anyway... I found it highly amusing that Bill and Fleur ended up engaged. Especially since 1) I didn't think them meeting in book 4 would ever grow into anything and 2) Bill and Fleur are exes in a post-Hogwarts fanfic I read last year. So it was a little shocking to read. Tonks and Remus... never saw it coming.

I think the rest of the ships were in there to satisfy the burning questions (and wars) people have over ships... and the fact that teens are probably reading this as well, so of course you have to throw in some teenage romance in there.

I'm really curious about book 7 and where it's going to take place, considering that Hogwarts will probably be more in the background than in previous books.

Overall, this book probably can be nicknamed "Harry Potter and the Large Amount of Backstory." It wasn't my favorite, but I figure you needed this book to see the end in book 7. Good for reference. I'll probably have to read it again.

Anyone read the clue/hints from Mugglenet about Book 6. I remember that it said that we would find out why Lily was very good at charms. I don't think Rowling meant magical charms. I kept thinking they were charms: as in "your boyfriend could charm the pants off your grandmother." Slughorn kept mentioning that she was "cheeky."

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Ok, I had a thought this morning in the shower (yes, that's where I do my best thinking).

I agree that DD was stalling Draco until Snape got there.

Dumbledore said in CoS that "I will never really be gone as long as there are people here who are still loyal". What better way to GUARANTEE loyalty to him (i.e., he'll never be gone) than to make sure that the person who kills him (or appears to have in case it was the poison from the horcrux that really did it) is the one most hated by Harry and everyone else?

And yes, DD is definitely dead for the reasons stated above.

[Lindz928]

Originally posted by JenMarie

Anyone read the clue/hints from Mugglenet about Book 6. I remember that it said that we would find out why Lily was very good at charms. I don't think Rowling meant magical charms. I kept thinking they were charms: as in "your boyfriend could charm the pants off your grandmother." Slughorn kept mentioning that she was "cheeky."

It was what we know so far about books 6 and 7. It said that we will learn more about Lily and that it will have significance that he wand was especially good for charms.... If you remember, Ollivander had mentioned to Harry (in book 1?) that his mother's wand was especially good for charms.

I assumed that since we didn't learn anything like that in this book, that it will be in book 7.

What we know about books 6 and 7
(go down and click on FACTS)