Blond Hair and Blue Eyes "She Had to Die"

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
I'm not saying that society doesn't see me as white or that I don't reap the benefits...I'm saying that race as a concept is terribly wrong to me, so I prefer not to identify myself racially. The problem is not that I don't want to be white...it's that I don't want to be any "color" and that's a separate issue altogether from my concern for anyone else.

And this right here drives me crazy.

Look, you're in such a huff to deny a universal truth ("we all look different") that you're perjuring yourself - you've declared that the man selected someone living the quintessential white lifestyle, but I guarantee (because you've done it in other threads) that you would roundly reject any sort of representative lifestyle for other races.

You might hate race as a concept, but you certainly seem sensitive to it. You might very well feel for this man's plight, but fucking A kids, this is the worst of the slippery slopes - the apologist angle.

[UKTriDelt]

Originally posted by AnonAlumna
I really don't want to get involved in a race discussion, but what exactly constitutes the 'typical white lifestyle'...should I be living it because I'm white?

And why should people be punished for living it to begin with?? I think this is a discussion I should stay out of, I'm too biased

[AnonAlumna]

Originally posted by UKTriDelt
And why should people be punished for living it to begin with?? I think this is a discussion I should stay out of, I'm too biased

That's why I edited what I said...I have too many opinions on this, and it's really not worth it to get into it on here. It's just another case of someone (regardless of their color) acting on stereotypes established a couple hundred years ago.

How come he didn't target a person of color living the 'white lifestyle'?

[jubilance1922]

Originally posted by AnonAlumna
That's why I edited what I said...I have too many opinions on this, and it's really not worth it to get into it on here. It's just another case of someone (regardless of their color) acting on stereotypes established a couple hundred years ago.

How come he didn't target a person of color living the 'white lifestyle'?

I don't think anyone here is qualified to answer that question.

Maybe you could write him in jail and get an answer.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
Murder is wrong, regardless of the reasons.

However, I don't think that identifying with the fustrations of being treated like a 2nd class citizen means that you excuse the actions of a murderer. It just means you understand their frustration. Why does it have to taken to mean more than that?

Oh I see. Let's look up some famous klansmen that lynched some blacks and identify with their frustrations. I hope nobody tries objects to the sympathizing.

-Rudey

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by KSig RC
you've declared that the man selected someone living the quintessential white lifestyle

Good grief! I didn't say this, he did.

You know, why do you care how I prefer to see myself? I don't believe I ever said that the murder was justified. What I said was that we shouldn't give him what he wants by killing him. He's obviously gone off the deep end, so any "punishment" we try to give him won't do him or us any good.

I think violent criminals (rapists, murders, etc.) should be first psychologically evaluated to see if the punishment we give will even be a punishment to them. If it is found that they are so far out there that jail-time won't mean anything to them, they should go into a maximum security psych program until either 1) they come to their senses and realize what they've done so we can then effectively punish them or 2) they die.

We send people to jail as a form of discipline. The whole point is to put them into an uncomfortable situation so they will reconsider their paths and ultimately stop their criminal ways. Why else would we release some?

For people who are just gone mentally, what good does it do anyone to have them in a jail when society would be better served to have them placed in a program where they have a chance of understanding what they've done. That's what we're aiming for, right?

[jubilance1922]

Originally posted by Rudey
Oh I see. Let's look up some famous klansmen that lynched some blacks and identify with their frustrations. I hope nobody tries objects to the sympathizing.

-Rudey

sym·pa·thy
n. pl. sym·pa·thies

-A relationship or an affinity between people or things in which whatever affects one correspondingly affects the other.
-Mutual understanding or affection arising from this relationship or affinity.

-The act or power of sharing the feelings of another.
-A feeling or an expression of pity or sorrow for the distress of another; compassion or commiseration. Often used in the plural.
-Harmonious agreement; accord: He is in sympathy with their beliefs.
-A feeling of loyalty; allegiance. Often used in the plural: His sympathies lie with his family.
-Physiology. A relation between parts or organs by which a disease or disorder in one induces an effect in the other.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

I don't think anyone here was giving excuses or justifying the act. I think you are reading too much into this.

And I'm sure there are lots of people in the world that can relate to the frustrations of a Klansman. Its not the same as excusing the behavior.

BTW, the word you were looking for is empathy

em·pa·thy n.
-Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.
-The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

[Rudey]

Actually, no. I meant sympathy. I have quite the grasp on the English language, and often those that recommend words to me lack that very grasp.

Usually empathy goes beyond sympathy in the form of a shared common experience. I sympathize with a woman who has her child murdered but I cannot empathize.

"The most often quoted article on empathy comes from physician Howard Spiro. He defines empathy this way:

Empathy is the feeling that persons or objects arouse in us as projections of our feelings and thoughts. It is evident when "I and you" becomes "I am you," or at least "I might be you."

Lawyers often use this technique every time a murderer kills someone. They play to people's emotions and try to reason through it. "Johnny had a rough childhood and was molested so that is why he grew to hate authority figures and killed these middle aged women."

And of course there are plenty of people that connect with klansmen and reason through the fact that they don't like Blacks; they are labeled racists.

-Rudey

Originally posted by jubilance1922
sym·pa·thy
n. pl. sym·pa·thies

-A relationship or an affinity between people or things in which whatever affects one correspondingly affects the other.
-Mutual understanding or affection arising from this relationship or affinity.

-The act or power of sharing the feelings of another.
-A feeling or an expression of pity or sorrow for the distress of another; compassion or commiseration. Often used in the plural.
-Harmonious agreement; accord: He is in sympathy with their beliefs.
-A feeling of loyalty; allegiance. Often used in the plural: His sympathies lie with his family.
-Physiology. A relation between parts or organs by which a disease or disorder in one induces an effect in the other.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

I don't think anyone here was giving excuses or justifying the act. I think you are reading too much into this.

And I'm sure there are lots of people in the world that can relate to the frustrations of a Klansman. Its not the same as excusing the behavior.

BTW, the word you were looking for is empathy

em·pa·thy n.
-Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.
-The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

[jubilance1922]

Originally posted by Rudey
Actually, no. I meant sympathy. I have quite the grasp on the English language, and often those that recommend words to me lack that very grasp.

Usually empathy goes beyond sympathy in the form of a shared common experience. I sympathize with a woman who has her child murdered but I cannot empathize.

"The most often quoted article on empathy comes from physician Howard Spiro. He defines empathy this way:

Empathy is the feeling that persons or objects arouse in us as projections of our feelings and thoughts. It is evident when "I and you" becomes "I am you," or at least "I might be you."

Lawyers often use this technique every time a murderer kills someone. They play to people's emotions and try to reason through it. "Johnny had a rough childhood and was molested so that is why he grew to hate authority figures and killed these middle aged women."

And of course there are plenty of people that connect with klansmen and reason through the fact that they don't like Blacks; they are labeled racists.

-Rudey

Actually, you just proved my point. No one in this thread gave a statement that meets the definition of sympathy. Therefore, sympathy was the wrong word to use in your attack on those who choose to give an opinion that you don't like.

As for the lawyer thing...hey, whatever works. But like I said before, there is NO justification for murder. Its always wrong.

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by Rudey
Oh I see. Let's look up some famous klansmen that lynched some blacks and identify with their frustrations. I hope nobody tries objects to the sympathizing.

-Rudey

If that's what you want to do.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by jubilance1922
Actually, you just proved my point. No one in this thread gave a statement that meets the definition of sympathy. Therefore, sympathy was the wrong word to use in your attack on those who choose to give an opinion that you don't like.

As for the lawyer thing...hey, whatever works. But like I said before, there is NO justification for murder. Its always wrong.

Your listing the definitions of empathy and sympathy had what to do with a point exactly?

1 a : an affinity, association, or relationship between persons or things wherein whatever affects one similarly affects the other.

These two statements qualify as sympathy. One can possibly say empathy if you could see yourself killing or having killed a white person:

"I understand his desperation and where he's coming from"

"Many of these things have happened to me, and lots of other minorities in this country...I do understand his sense of frustration in a world that treats many people as second class citizens."

-Rudey

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Rudey
And of course there are plenty of people that connect with klansmen and reason through the fact that they don't like Blacks; they are labeled racists.

And, this guy is racist as well. It was a violent racist act, right?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
And, this guy is racist as well. It was a violent racist act, right?

Yes.

-Rudey

[jubilance1922]

Originally posted by Rudey
Your listing the definitions of empathy and sympathy had what to do with a point exactly?

1 a : an affinity, association, or relationship between persons or things wherein whatever affects one similarly affects the other.

These two statements qualify as sympathy. One can possibly say empathy if you could see yourself killing or having killed a white person:

"I understand his desperation and where he's coming from"

"Many of these things have happened to me, and lots of other minorities in this country...I do understand his sense of frustration in a world that treats many people as second class citizens."

-Rudey

Actually the definition of empathy is understanding someone's experience, so empathy is appropriate in this context, because it seems to me that people empathize with the things that happened to this man before he killed someone.

Did you miss my stealing analogy earlier? Well, here it is again: I can understand why a starving mother would steal food for her child. Do I think stealing is ok? NO.

The same idea applies. I think the bigger issue here is that you were expecting a different reaction than the one you got.

Do I get angry when rich blonde girls tell me I'm in grad school because of affirmative action? Yes. Do I get angry when I'm followed in a store for no reason? Yes. Do I get angry when people speak to me and assume I grew up in the projects instead of 2-parent middle class home? Yes. Do all these experiences mean that I think its ok to kill people? NO.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Rudey
Your listing the definitions of empathy and sympathy had what to do with a point exactly?

1 a : an affinity, association, or relationship between persons or things wherein whatever affects one similarly affects the other.

These two statements qualify as sympathy. One can possibly say empathy if you could see yourself killing or having killed a white person:

"I understand his desperation and where he's coming from"

"Many of these things have happened to me, and lots of other minorities in this country...I do understand his sense of frustration in a world that treats many people as second class citizens."

-Rudey

Outside of the sympathy/empathy discussion, what is it that you're disagreeing with? Are you saying that it is wrong to "see where someone is coming from" while at the same time knowing that person's actions are 100% wrong and punishable?

I get how a person would have the attitude that someone who is bad should not be afforded any level of sympathy/empathy (I'm not trying to get into that!!). But, there are those out there in the world who have an understanding of that bad person's motives while not condoning them at all. Wouldn't you say?