Lawschool Advice?

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Kevlar281
Ok seriously this thread is freaking me out about job opportunities.

Don't be freaked out - while Dani and valkyrie are totally correct that jobs are lagging in 'traditional' legal fields, it's a bit alarmist to be completely 'freaked out' and instead feel lucky to be forewarned . . . realize that if you're looking for niche work (read: sports agent, or first-chair entertainment attorney, or something equally pie-in-the-sky), or aren't willing to start at the bottom, you'll need to look for the expanding non-traditional fields.

There's simply not room for every law student to wind up in-house at GE, or to start as a baby at Baker Botts . . . law students are increasingly being forced into work as independent contractors, or in legal-related fields such as LawIT/e-discovery, consulting, or non-counsel in-house work.

Also, the "outside the top 20% is screwed" figure is completely pulled out of his ass - but it would definitely help to have the numbers.

The important thing to take from valkyrie and dani is to realize that the market is nowhere near as impressed with your JD as it was 10 years ago, especially away from the coasts, so you'll need to a.) keep your options open and b.) be flexible if you're not in a position to be choosy. This is one reason why I'm doing what I'm doing now - because I don't want to be $100k in debt and realize I hate what I'm doing. It's a try-out period, of sorts.

[GeekyPenguin]

The main thing I would suggest to people considering law school is to HAVE A MAJOR YOU CAN FALL BACK ON. Sure, it's appealing to major in underwater basketweaving because you'll have the GPA for Harvard, but if you hate law school and drop out or finish in the bottom 3% of your class, you can still get a job with your UG degree. The accountants and engineers among my friends are a lot less freaked out than the general business and art history kids right now about undertaking all that loan debt.

[Coramoor]

Originally posted by KSig RC

Also, the "outside the top 20% is screwed" figure is completely pulled out of his ass - but it would definitely help to have the numbers.

Hardly. I don't make blind choices and a lot of alumni have told me that if you are not in the top 25% or so, you will not be offered a job at a medium to a large firm were you can make the money you need to at least pay for your loans. If you are happy doing legal work that a legal secretary can do, then yeah-do what ever you want in law school. To be competetive you have to be among the best in your class.

The accountants and engineers among my friends are a lot less freaked out than the general business and art history kids right now about undertaking all that loan debt.

Engineering is ridiculous right now. A buddy of mine is a year from graduating and has around a 2.6 gpa and already has an awesome job waiting for him.

[kddani]

No offense Coramoor, but you haven't even started law school yet. You shouldn't be talking like you're an authority on hiring. And what one lawyer told you isn't the gospel.

Being in the top 20% may be the only way to get a decent job if you go to a crappy law school, but that's NOT true across the board.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Hardly. I don't make blind choices and a lot of alumni have told me that if you are not in the top 25% or so, you will not be offered a job at a medium to a large firm were you can make the money you need to at least pay for your loans.

OK - so you pulled the figure out of your ass, but at least it was based on anecdotal accounts from "a lot of alumni" (from WVU, I assume)?

Hardly something for Kevlar to base his own expectation on, although the sentiment you're applying is probably the most healthy way to look at it. Just realize that you're not exactly performing science (or logic) with your conclusion.

You also assume here that a primary goal is Big Law , which also draws considerably more graduates from (surprise!) bigger, better, coastal law schools . . . 20% certainly isn't an accurate requirement for graduates from Columbia, for instance, when it comes to finding work for the largest firms (or analogous positions in other sectors). There's far more available than "large or medium firms", as well, but I'm sure you've done the research . . . right?

Originally posted by Coramoor
If you are happy doing legal work that a legal secretary can do, then yeah-do what ever you want in law school. To be competetive you have to be among the best in your class.

Tautology? Solid LSAT prep, I guess . . .

Originally posted by Coramoor
Engineering is ridiculous right now. A buddy of mine is a year from graduating and has around a 2.6 gpa and already has an awesome job waiting for him.

Definitely the truth here, though, and even past the money the room for advancement for recent grads is pretty amazing in many engineering fields.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

Why is no one else bringing up the apparent bad kissing epidemic sweeping the nation's law schools?

[starryeyed]

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
Why is no one else bringing up the apparent bad kissing epidemic sweeping the nation's law schools?

Yeah that's a pressing issue we must address. I can't believe such a blight on our nation is being swept under the carpet!

[kddani]

Originally posted by starryeyed
Yeah that's a pressing issue we must address. I can't believe such a blight on our nation is being swept under the carpet!

Maybe the single biggest piece of advice I can give you. Don't date anyone in your law school.

As one of my classmates said, "law school booty is bad booty"

[starryeyed]

Originally posted by kddani
Maybe the single biggest piece of advice I can give you. Don't date anyone in your law school.

As one of my classmates said, "law school booty is bad booty"

Oh gosh I can't imagine! We can even talk to each other in this thread without arguing! I'd never date someone else as argumentative as ME! (plus I'm married so I don't date anymore, but if I did ... )

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
It is practically impossible to get loan forgiveness if you had any sort of scholarship. My boyfriend went to a first tier school on a partial scholarship and is now working as a PD in a rural county, and can't get loan forgiveness because he used loans for things beside school.

Most of the schools that offer the most generous loan forgiveness programs are the ones that don't give out merit scholarships.

So, unless you were planning on going to a Columbia, Yale, or Stanford--it's probably not a good idea to bank on loan forgiveness.

[OtterXO]

Originally posted by KSig RC


Hardly something for Kevlar to base his own expectation on, although the sentiment you're applying is probably the most healthy way to look at it. Just realize that you're not exactly performing science (or logic) with your conclusion.

You also assume here that a primary goal is Big Law , which also draws considerably more graduates from (surprise!) bigger, better, coastal law schools . . . 20% certainly isn't an accurate requirement for graduates from Columbia, for instance, when it comes to finding work for the largest firms (or analogous positions in other sectors). There's far more available than "large or medium firms", as well, but I'm sure you've done the research . . . right?

I completely agree with this...what people have to understand that it's more than slightly annoying to see people who are not in the legal field telling others "how it is" in the legal job market or law school.
That being said, yes, you may have an easier time getting your first job if you are at a better school and/or at the top of your class. HOWEVER, this all depends on the individual and personal connections. After you get your first job though, anyone can go anywhere. I have friends who went to law schools that I had never even heard of before they told me about them. These people started at smaller firms and made a lateral move over to a bigger firm after 3-5 years. They proved themselves at their first job and became good attorneys who were desireable candidates regardless of their alma mater or grades.

The point of this is: there is no "rule" for getting a job in the legal field. There are so many variables that for anyone to say it is "always" one way is just ridiculous. If you want to go to law school, consider the costs and do your research...if you still want to go after reading the good and bad then good luck!

[Kevin]

Didn't realize the market was so tough. Guess I'm lucky to have a father willing to turn over his client base when he retires...

Law school is expensive as heck though. I am still having to come to terms with the reality that I'll basically have no life outside of school for the next 4 years (I'm working full time as a legal assistant while going to school in the evenings, so it's a 4 year program). Right now, tuition is $825/hr where I'm going. I'm sure it'll be a lot higher by the time I'm through.

If I can get 'er done though, I have some pretty good assurances of a successful future in private practice -- about 1/2 family law, the rest is miscellaneous civil, land condemnation, that sort of thing. I kind of regret that I won't have the same opportunities that my father did to explore different areas of the legal profession -- he was 1st Assistant Attorney General for Oklahoma, a Special Judge in Oklahoma County, and General Counsel to the Transportation Department (was the Highway Dept. back then)-- but of course government work doesn't pay that well either.

Congrats though kd on finishing school good luck on that Bar Exam. I hear it's a pretty traumatic experience for most.

Hopefully, I'll be able to take it sometime around 2009, 2010 in Oklahoma.

[luvtoscrap]

Personally I found that networking was a major factor in landing a job. Also, specializing in specific field that was not saturated was also pretty helpful. For me it was special education law. My undergrad degree was in special education and I worked several years as a teacher before having children. Therefore, sp.ed. law was just a natural progression in my career.

[christiangirl]

Sorry, the most I know about law school, I learned from Legally Blonde (it made me want to be a lawyer for about 3 days). I say go for the gold! Apply to Harvard, you can do it! Just make sure your resume's pink and scented.

[AGDee]

I'll add that after my ex-husband got his MBA (after he dropped out of law school, which he tried to do part time while working full time as an accountant), he noted that most of the higher ups in all the corporations he worked for were not MBAs but in fact had law degrees. There are even more MBAs out there than there are attorneys!

I would also venture to say that, as with most careers, much of it depends on the area where you plan to search for jobs. I know many mechanical engineering grads lately who took more than a year to find a job. In Michigan, this work is primarily with contractors who work for the auto companies and they have been cutting back and outsourcing this type of work. It's not the "automatic good job" that it used to be, here anyway.

Dee