Spank or not to spank?

[Yemaya]

Hola Senoritas....

I think someone said this in an earlier reply.....I believe that a child is supposed to be disciplined from early on. That way respect for themselves and for their parents are learned in the beginning. My parents taught me at an early age (I was still a baby); and as a child and now I knew my manners, how to speak to another adult, so on and so forth. I do believe that a child should get spanked, but not a BEATDOWN! I also believe that it should be used as a LAST RESORT. Thanks for listening ladies! -Yemaya-

[PenguinTrax]

I was spanked as a child and don't believe it did me a bit of good. All it did was make me resentful.

I personally believe that spanking will set the child up to believe that violence is a good way to resolve a problem. I believe in gentle parenting (no physical discipline). I believe that you can effectively discipline a child (of any temperment) without using physical punishment. This starts early and requires constant and firm communication between parent and child and requires a clear set of expectations in terms of behavior, etc.

Gentle parenting is also a large part of attachment parenting, which I am also finding attractive as a method for raising independent, secure children.

I do not believe in cajoling, bribing, or any of the other 'parents as friends' systems of discipline. I believe in stating consequences and following through.

I come in contact with a lot of children these days (my friends are having babies like it's going out of style). Those parents that spank and/or try to be 'friends' to their children have brats that are unpleasant to be around, and as a result we do not associate with those friends when the children are involved in the outing. Those parents that set clear expectations and follow through with stated consequences all have children that are a joy to be around - they are well behaved and happy. They know what is expected of them and they follow through.

Just another point of view for discussion...
Also check out http://www.nospank.net/stang2.htm. Also check out the articles in the main pages - many are from respected scholarly and educational journals.

[SeriousSigma22]

Sorhors and friends,

This question to spank or not spank I believe really has to do with how a parent or parents raise up their children. There is evident that supports and goes against spanking, however, if a parent carefully disciplines a child for doing something that will stop the bad behavior and keep the child on the right the path then it should be done. Yes, some children will never receive a spanking because they have that type of personally but there are a lot of children out there in society just purely out of control! And they really need their parents attention, guidance and even a spanking every now and then to keep them in line. It's really great that everyone has evidence to support their strong beliefs.
The bottom line is that we are going to do what we feel is best for our children. Happy parenting!

Serioussigma22

[UNIQUE97]

Well said Serioussigma22!!

[SoTrue1920]

SeriousSigma -

I think you may be missing my point. The point I'm trying to make is that once you set the parameters that it's okay to hit someone to teach them a lesson and/or resolve conflict, you open the door for that to be the only means that person will understand for redress.

We can agree to disagree (respectfully, of course) , but I am firm in my belief that hitting a child (whether you call it "spanking" or "beating") is not the best way to teach a child valuable life lessons.

Originally posted by SeriousSigma22
Sisterfriend in greekdom,

I totally disagree with that statement! If a person is so desparate to belong to any greek organization that they will allow another adult to put their hands on them. Then they are joining for the wrong reasons. Membership into a sorority or fraternity is not based upon whether your parents spanked you or not! Like I stated before, every BGLOs has specific statements about hazing, which has nothing to do with becoming a member of an organization. They need to stop being a follower and start being a leader!

Serioussigma22

[SeriousSigma22]

SoTrue1920,

I totally understand your point and respect your point but I just don't agree with it! We need to stop making excuses for folks that don't want to abide by the parameters, guidelines and rules set by the perspective BGLOs and those folks shouldn't be greek. I also don't agree with the correlation that being spanked for doing something wrong or stopping a horrible behavior will train up a child to think that it's okay to hit a person if they become the leader of the MIP process that's just plain foolishness. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I will agree with you that a lot folks spank children for the wrong reasons and they unfortunately are parents. And like I stated in one of my earlier post spankings or beatings are not the only form of discipline. I really think that when a parent withdrawals his/her love or approval that does just as much or even more damage and unfortunately I see it a lot when some of my students come to school and their parents have kicked them out of the house and don't want anything to do with the child. Like one of my senior girl's mother told her that she wished that the child was never born! Now that's coldblooded and some real emotional damage that seems to really scar them for life! Believe me when I say that I've seen a lot of horrible parenting during my ten years as an educator in good ole' Fairfax County Public School Systems.

Serioussigma22

[SoTrue1920]

Disagreement is good in that it helps you understand another person's perspective (and it helps you hone in on why you feel the way you do about a certain topic). Here's something I ran across in the Toronto Star today regarding bullying, child pornography, and protection of children. It's kind of long, but it's an interesting read :

"One cause of bullying, said a study summarized in the American Medical Association News Update several years ago, is spanking. Researchers followed more than 800 mothers in a longitudinal study. They found that children who were spanked, even once a week, even in otherwise loving and emotionally warm families, and despite any other social or economic factors, all showed an increase in anti-social behaviour, tendencies to cheat and lie, bullying, cruelty to others and disobedience at school.

That study doesn't stand alone. In a powerful recent book, Something To Cry About, An Argument Against Corporal Punishment of Children in Canada, author Dr. Susan Turner cites dozens of studies on the correlation between physical punishment of children and their levels of aggression in adulthood. The studies are virtually unanimous. Corporal punishment is a significant risk factor for bullying, alienation from family, poor school performance and adult violence.

In January of this year, the Ontario Court of Appeal upheld the right of teachers and parents to use "reasonable force" to "correct" their children's behaviour, in the words of Section 43 of the Criminal Code. Section 43 provides a defence for adults accused of assaulting children. Judges Stephen Goudge, Marvin Catzman and David Doherty all agreed that Section 43 strikes "a fair balance" between children's right to be protected and adults' rights to use force on children without fearing prosecution.

I'm astonished. As a society, we've now recognized that violence against schoolchildren is assault. It took us the better part of a century to establish that simple fact. It took decades and decades to show that a man has no right to hit his wife. We now call it assault, though it was once called "correction." And after all this, learned judges soberly sit on the bench and decree that violence against small, defenceless children — the deliberate infliction of pain by trusted adults — is "reasonable" and not an assault.

As Dr. Turner methodically and crisply establishes in her book, not a single rationale for hitting children can withstand clear, logical analysis, let alone moral, ethical or utilitarian considerations. Nor, in countries like Sweden and Italy where hitting children has become illegal, has there been an outbreak of arrests of parents who swatted their offspring. (That seems to be the guilty panic of the majority of Canadian parents, who constantly support Section 43 lest cops break down their doors and arrest them for spanking. As if.)

Instead, wherever corporal punishment has been outlawed, whole cultures are slowly changing to recognize the terrible, widespread harm of physical violence against children.

And the harm is reversible. A University of Minnesota study of 1,000 parents showed that children's levels of aggression and violence drop dramatically when their parents stop hitting and learn to discipline their children with attention, praise, love and clear standards of behaviour.

The rest of the article appears here .

[SoTrue1920]

Originally posted by PnguinTrax
I was spanked as a child and don't believe it did me a bit of good. All it did was make me resentful.

Same here, PnguinTrax. Not only that, but because I feared my parents' anger, when I was a kid I learned to lie about the things I did -- things that were perfectly innocent, but things that my parents might not have agreed with. Not exactly model behaviour, and it's not behaviour I still engage in, but I can honestly say it's a direct result of my fear of being spanked.

Thank you for posting the No Spank Myths about Spanking! It's definitely informative. I think part of the problem is that people assume that we're making value judgements about the way they choose to raise their children. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's not my intent. How a person decides to raise his or her child is ultimately none of my business... unless a child is being threatened.

[SeriousSigma22]

Sisterfriends,

That's great! Now you ladies realize that for every piece of evidence or statistic that supports one side of the arguement there are other articles, surveys, research that presents an opposing view. It's really great that you are against spanking in any form or fashion, however, it doesn't hurt to spank an out of controlled child. And like I stated before in numerous post some children really need that spanking to keep them safe from trying something that could or would have caused greater harm. It might not have helped you change one little bit, however, it probably kept you in line when your "id" wanted to dominate over your "superego." Some children don't respond well to any real form of parenting styles especially if you just use praise and say only good things to that child. Truly that is unrealistic and you might have a monster on your hand when the little person grows up to be a big person. Let's face it folks, that's not reality to always only hear positive things in life. I don't know any real human being that lives in a society where life is just one big happy party and your not disciplined for stepping out of line. I'm not just referring to a spanking!

Another real life experience from four of my five class periods. Currently, I have a student-teacher that has been in my classroom since January 23, 2002 and he has taken over 4 of my 5 courses. I don't allow my juniors and seniors to get away with being out of control at anytime. As I was observing my student-teacher, before the springbreak, I noticed that they were talking while he was trying to present his lessons and they were just being cruel and disrespectful (Making rude comments about his body, walking around the room while he was presenting, reading the newspaper, throwing paper at him, etc). After the lesson and during our planning period I sat down with Mr. L. and presented the positive and negative aspects of his lesson. He was a little upset after the class because he really was having a problem with all four of the classes that he is currently teaching. He told me that he didn't like to raise his voice, using a technique of just stopping and staring at the students to get them back on track and that he was afraid to say anything that might hurt their feelings in anyway. I basically told him that these students will eat you up and spit you out if you give them an inch. Most of the kids that were giving him the biggest headache are little angels for me!

The moral of the story, kids need real discipline! I'm sorry if that hurts anyone but in reality just take yourself down to a public high school or middle school and you might just change your mind about not providing young people with real discipline.

Keep the discussion going!

Serioussigma22

[rho4life]

1.9.2.2.