Kansas and Immigrant Tuition Rates

[KillarneyRose]

I am just amazed that there are illegal immigrants who are up in arms about this issue and making their opinions known everywhere. If I were an illegal immigrant, I would try to keep a pretty low profile so I didn't get deported. Isn't that what happens?

[Honeykiss1974]

Posted on Tue, Jul. 05, 2005

Judge dismisses suit over immigrant tuition law

Associated Press


TOPEKA - A federal judge today dismissed a lawsuit challenging a year-old state law that gives some illegal immigrants a break on tuition at state universities, community colleges and vocational colleges.

The law says illegal immigrants can qualify for lower tuition rates reserved for Kansas residents if they have attended a Kansas high school for at least three years and have graduated or earned a general education development certificate in Kansas. Also, they must actively be seeking legal immigration status or plan to do so when they are eligible.

Challenging the law were six parents and 18 students who were residents of other states but were attending Kansas institutions and paid higher rates.

The difference can be substantial. For example, state residents taking 15 hours of undergraduate classes at the University of Kansas pay $2,081 a semester in tuition, compared with $5,069 for non-Kansas residents.




Read the rest here

[jubilance1922]

This idea came up in the Minnesota legislature as well. I don't believe that it passed (but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't agree with this idea. Its unfair to out of state students. How can you be a resident of a state but not a resident of the ENTIRE COUNTRY? And its unfair to international students that go through the correct changes to be able to attend college in the US.

[non-greek newby]

Originally posted by jubilance1922
This idea came up in the Minnesota legislature as well. I don't believe that it passed (but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't agree with this idea. Its unfair to out of state students. How can you be a resident of a state but not a resident of the ENTIRE COUNTRY? And its unfair to international students that go through the correct changes to be able to attend college in the US.

The reasoning behind this, Jubilance, is that these undocumented students are different from out of state students in that they came here when they were children (most, if not all, under the age of 15) and have resided in this state for quite some time. I think what a lot of people forget is that these were not adults deciding on their own account to break the law of the United States of America. These were children, most under the guise of some adult who decided to break the law. Now that they are here, what should we do with them?

I'm not 100% sure about this Minnesota law, but in New Jersey something similar is coming up in the legislature. In this case, after attending college and taking part in some community service projects, these children eventually become legal residents of New Jersey, allowing them to truly benefit the community legally, if this legislation should pass. I personally think this, coupled with a revamping of our immigration system will solve many of our immigration problems.

For now, however, I think a lot of you need to realize that without illegal immigrants, our economy would probably suffer greatly. Many friends and relatives of mine have spoken to me of the many companies that actively, though surreptitiously, recruit illegal immigrants from other countries (and no, it's not just Mexico) to work in the US illegally for a lot more than they would be making in their country of origin. And when you're faced with the daunting task of feeding your family or putting clothes on your children, what would you do? But, of course, you don't see anyone discussing that matter. I think the important thing we should be discussing is "why does everyone want to leave their own country and what can we do about it?"

[Tom Earp]

They Are Not Citizens.

So, Why take the same rights from legal American Citizens?

Explain this to me so that I can understand it!

[non-greek newby]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
They Are Not Citizens.

So, Why take the same rights from legal American Citizens?

Explain this to me so that I can understand it!

Tom,
It's not that simple. Nothing is. I think the best way to look at this is to try to put yourself in these kids' shoes. You're taken from your home by your parents or some other adult to live in the United States with no documentation at age 6. You have gone to school and have now reached 11th grade. You are in the top 10% of your class and have amazing SAT scores. You were in your Student Government Association, Debate Team, etc. You plan to be a lawyer working for a non-profit organization that helps low-income families get back on their feet. Unfortunately, you find out that, because you're undocumented, you can't attend college. You don't have the money to pay for out-of-state tuition, and you don't qualify for any financial aid. So, you have to resort to working at McDonald's as a cashier to help your family get by.

Unfortunately, I wish I was making this all up, but it's the story of a good friend of mine. You see, at age 6, what crime can someone have committed? There's a lot that you can learn by researching some of the problems in inner cities. There are very few who have the opportunity to leave, do something for themselves, and then give back to their community. I think the system we have now is one which greatly perpetuates this problem.

[AnonAlumna]

Wow, I'm surprised that the US is not just waving the bill all-together! I was denied financial aid during college, because (in the words of my financial aid advisor) I was white, not married, and didn't have any children.

As an RA, I found that most of my residents were from India, China and other countries. They were on FULL tuition assistance. This is a very sore subject for me.

[Rudey]

There are a lot of people in the top 10% of their class with amazing SAT scores, including many Americans. Let the Americans get those benefits first since we don't have an endless supply of money.

Non-American illegals have to accept that they can be deported and don't have the same rights, hence why they're illegal. Why call them illegals if they have the same benefits as legal aliens?

Their parents can send them to school in their home country, they can work to make money to go to school, if they're talented they can get scholarships, or they can just not attend college. Those are the costs of being an illegal.

-Rudey

Originally posted by non-greek newby
Tom,
It's not that simple. Nothing is. I think the best way to look at this is to try to put yourself in these kids' shoes. You're taken from your home by your parents or some other adult to live in the United States with no documentation at age 6. You have gone to school and have now reached 11th grade. You are in the top 10% of your class and have amazing SAT scores. You were in your Student Government Association, Debate Team, etc. You plan to be a lawyer working for a non-profit organization that helps low-income families get back on their feet. Unfortunately, you find out that, because you're undocumented, you can't attend college. You don't have the money to pay for out-of-state tuition, and you don't qualify for any financial aid. So, you have to resort to working at McDonald's as a cashier to help your family get by.

Unfortunately, I wish I was making this all up, but it's the story of a good friend of mine. You see, at age 6, what crime can someone have committed? There's a lot that you can learn by researching some of the problems in inner cities. There are very few who have the opportunity to leave, do something for themselves, and then give back to their community. I think the system we have now is one which greatly perpetuates this problem.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by AnonAlumna
I was denied financial aid during college, because (in the words of my financial aid advisor) I was white, not married, and didn't have any children.

As an RA, I found that most of my residents were from India, China and other countries. They were on FULL tuition assistance. This is a very sore subject for me.

I was denied financial aid in college and grad school. I'm black, not married, no kids, 4.0 GPA from a top HS, excellent test scores, yada yada yada. I didn't lose any sleep over who had gotten scholarships--regardless if they were athletes, poor, idiotic, or from Antartica. It's just the way that cookie crumbled. In other words, that's just life.

When you fill out forms for financial aid, you have to provide your parents' SS#. What happens to kids who happen to be citizens, but have undocumented parents? How does financial need get calculated if the parents' income can't be verified because they're getting paid under the table? These are questions that all states will have to answer as the amount of children of illegal immigrants increases.

[non-greek newby]

Originally posted by AnonAlumna
Wow, I'm surprised that the US is not just waving the bill all-together! I was denied financial aid during college, because (in the words of my financial aid advisor) I was white, not married, and didn't have any children.

As an RA, I found that most of my residents were from India, China and other countries. They were on FULL tuition assistance. This is a very sore subject for me.

There are many ethnic minorities that aren't on full tuition assistance. Many who do are on it because of some financial or educational need. But that is a very different debate.

[non-greek newby]

Originally posted by Rudey
There are a lot of people in the top 10% of their class with amazing SAT scores, including many Americans. Let the Americans get those benefits first since we don't have an endless supply of money.

Non-American illegals have to accept that they can be deported and don't have the same rights, hence why they're illegal. Why call them illegals if they have the same benefits as legal aliens?

Their parents can send them to school in their home country, they can work to make money to go to school, if they're talented they can get scholarships, or they can just not attend college. Those are the costs of being an illegal.

-Rudey

I don't know. I personally don't think they should be penalized for a decision they did not make.

[FHwku]

Kansas immigrant tuition case tossed out
Thursday, Jul 7, 2005

By Doug Thompson
Arkansas News Bureau
[...]The lawsuit was dismissed on Tuesday on the grounds that the bill opponents who brought the action had no legal standing. The case was brought by students from outside Kansas, among other groups.

"Prior to the passage of the law, plaintiffs paid out-of-state tuition," U.S. District Judge Richard Rogers said in his ruling. "With the passage of [the law], plaintiffs continue to pay out-of-state tuition. The law passed by the Kansas Legislature does not apply to the plaintiffs, and the plaintiffs have made no argument that it does."

stuff about statement from Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)

Dan Stein, President of FAIR, today called the decision by U.S. district Judge Richard D. Rogers, an appalling exercise in judicial activism, "taking a blatantly illegal state law and using various procedural obstacles to keep these young people from having their day in court."

An appeal to the lawsuit is already planned, says FAIR.
(i'm not exactly sure what he means. more about That Guy)
According to Stein, "this decision is especially troubling in that Judge Rogers decided to use brazen procedural roadblocks to uphold a state law clearly prohibited by Congress under federal law. The federal statute is clear," says Stein.

In-State Tuition section from FinAid.org

There is a conflict between Federal and State law regarding the eligibility of undocumented students for in-state tuition rates.

Federal law passed in 1996 prohibits illegal aliens from receiving in-state tuition rates at public institutions of higher education. Specifically, Section 505 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (Title 8, Chapter 14, Sec. 1623) states: "an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State ... for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident."

[...]This controversy is unlikely to be resolved until the US Supreme Court hears a case concerning it [...] Most likely the decision will focus on the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment of the US Constitution, as did the decision in Plyler v. Doe, 457 US 202 (1982). It will also likely overturn state laws, regardless of whether they provide in-state tuition to illegal immigrants or ban it, since the authority to regulate immigration belongs exclusively to the federal government. It might also find that offering reduced in-state tuition to state residents is unconstitutional. (is this is what Stein was referring to as the "blatantly illegal state law?")

pending legislation in the House [Student Adjustment Act (HR 1684)] and Senate [Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors (DREAM) Act (S 1545)] that would repeal the Federal restriction and make college more affordable for illegal aliens.

i doubt that the supreme court would find that reduced in-state tuition for residents are unconstitutional. but what do i know?...i wear velcro-strap shoes, and watch cartoons.

i think that non-citizens should pay out-of-state tuition. FinAid says, "Another potential source of financial aid is private scholarships. There are a few private scholarships for undocumented students that do not require the student to be a US citizen or resident or have a social security number in order to apply."

I'm sure there are citizens in Kansas that would fund scholarships for non-citizens. after they graduate college and become citizens, Kansas will have that many more intelligent, well-rounded, educated, tax-payers. like 18-yr-old Jorge, who plays the soccer, is a guitarist at his church and volunteers with cancer patients at a local hospital. His dream job: electrical engineer.

Maybe he'll one day engineer the electric fence that stops illegal aliens. or a tiny robot in work visas that pokes the immigrant until they get it renewed or cross the border.