Paper Members

[Sexy Mocha]

Ok...OK...where do I even begin?
First, let me start by stating that I am not a member of any BGLO.

(Y'all I can't even breathe I want to get at this so bad!)

Now, as far as the original question goes, I will not...COULD NOT address this particular issue because, as I stated, I am not a member of a Greek organization, therefore I am not ignorant or pompous enough to debate a topic of which I have no actual knowledge/experience of....especially not with members who do.

With that said, my intention is not to debate MIP vs. Pledge Process. It is, however, to address Blonde1. As we are all entitled to our opinions (Hell, even if we weren't I would have stated mine anyway)...I just had to make a few comments to you.

I think your comments to/about black fraternities and their members who are representing in this thread are arrogant, rude and to say the least very unnecessary. Your attempts at being sarcastic and leveling what you, alone, deem as humor toward the different terms they use within their orgs. is highly tacky.
I applaud the men from the various BGLOs who have responded to your posts with respect, eloquence, and dignity because had it been me (and No, it's not me)...but had it been me I wouldn't be explaining what or why my organization does/doesn't... says/doesn't say whatever it is that you are trying to be a smart alleck about by asking/saying all it is that you're saying.

Oh, and news flash dear: Having talked to "one or two members of a black sorority/fraternity" does not give you any special authority to go around speaking upon BGLO issues! Actually, chatting with 2 or 3 members helps you to understand about the goings on of BGLOs just as much as I can learn about and cockily debate upon "pastoralization" from speaking with one or two people who majored in Anthropology....not too dam much Blonde1...Not too dam much!

Lastly, I have stated my opinions/thoughts/ideas as you have yours... in a careless, not-so-nice-manner...and with that being said and done I will take leave from this board. You can respond anyway you choose, if at all, but I do not wish to discuss this any further. Have a pleasant evening.

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 29, 2000).]

[1Blonde]

Okay, touche on the ice thing=-)

To answer one posters question, Im not a member, but I do find it all interesting. Its laughable that members of XYZ organizations are upset at my voicing an opinion, since its not unusual for such members to be putting all of their business out on campus anyway. Maybe you all should make attempts to keep either your mouths closed or to censure your brothers because much of what happens as far as processes go tends to become public knowledge. Yall are some serious braggers.


As far as being ignorant or pompous, well Im not surprised people would throw that out there since I'm disputing ideas that are so commonly held.

But this begs the question--- poster why are you so outraged if you're not a member? If I cant question, then wouldnt the same argument be that such strong emotions like youre showing should be reserved for actual members of the organizations?

I think your comments to/about black fraternities and their members who are representing in this thread are arrogant, rude and to say the least very unnecessary.
Of course you do. If I agreed with 7A I'm sure you'd feel differently.

Your attempts at being sarcastic and leveling what you, alone, deem as humor toward the different terms they use within their orgs. is highly tacky.
Tacky? Well I wasnt trying to score points for taste so I can accept that


I applaud the men from the various BGLOs who have responded to your posts with respect, eloquence, and dignity
But just out of curiosity, getting hit with a paddle would be dignified? O-Kay


because had it been me (and No, it's not me)...but had it been me I wouldn't be explaining what or why my organization does/doesn't... says/doesn't say whatever it is that you are trying to be a smart alleck about by asking/saying all But you do see that members went to great pains to explain it. Makes you wonder if they have as much confidence in what they went through as they say they do

Oh, and news flash dear: Having talked to "one or two members of a black sorority/fraternity" does not give you any special authority to go around speaking upon BGLO issues!
Okay you have a point there. But I've also seen School Daze. Do I get any points for that?

Lastly, I have stated my opinions/thoughts/ideas as you have yours... in a careless, not-so-nice-manner...
Ouch! The last thing I want to be is not-so-nice

Have a pleasant evening.
You dont really mean that do you?

[Sexy Mocha]

Ok, I was not going to respond to any of your ridiculous posts...but you leave me no choice. Actually, I had a good laugh with your last one...You may be a pompous ass, but you're a very funny one, I must say.

Anyway, to answer your questions...no you don't get brownie points for viewing School Daze...Sorry, but I just couldn't give that one to you.

[Sexy Mocha]

Ooops! I hit the "submit" button by mistake... I will continue now

As for why I'm so outraged by your comments...I thought I explained it pretty accurately in my first post, but I understand... maybe I should break it down in simpler terms for you. (Sorry!)

Ok, your comments angered me because, unlike others responding to this particular subject, You seem to be the only one feeling the need to be as rude and personal as possible. Why are YOU so outraged? (Are you following along?) There's nothing wrong with giving your opinions, but must you do so in such a disrespectful manner? You seem to have some really good verbal skills...can't you just rely on them solely and leave the attitude out of it? Why don't you pause here and ponder on what I just said. ............................................Ok, that should have been long enough. Now look, Blonde1, I have to go back to work now. I really don't feel the need to go back and forth with you. I truly hate saying these not-so-nice things to you (or anyone for that matter) I use the words "not-so-nice" because I figured this is not the place or time to say what I REALLY want to say to you. It's hard, but I must refrain!
Anyway, once again...have a pleasant day.
And I do mean that, I don't want you going through life so unpleasant and nasty ALL the time! Take care my friend!

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 30, 2000).]

[1Blonde]

I didnt intend to appear pompous. I'd been reading the other forums and these questions came to mind, so when given the chance-- this thread-- I asked them. Perhaps Im overstepping some boundaries but this is all good discussion and I generally feel that since a greek started this thread in a forum where non-greeks often pass through, they opened themselves to this kind of dialogue.

7A is irritating. For one there's just so much hypocrisy in what he posts. Also I think much of his attitude, one where he's automatically prepared to hate without looking at the entire picture, is too common not just among greeks who "pledged" but among alot of black people facing change period.

But it's nice that we can be so amicable even in the midst of exchanging different views.

[1Blonde]

Before someone happily jumps on my tail, I'll correct myself in referring to that ice cold brother I mentioned in the above post. I called him 7A, I should have referred to him as 7BA94.

[cash78mere]

Hey 1Blonde-

Don't worry about what other people say. You have every right to your opinion. People tend to get very defensive of their own ideas and cannot handle it when you express one that is different. I think it is great that you are having a discussion, but just from seeing prior discussions on this board, it might be better if you exchange email addresses and continue it that way. This topic has come up several times and it will never be resolved on the board. You should probably register yourself so other posters can email you. For some reason, people like you to be registered; I guess so they have your email address.

You have every right to your opinion, as does everyone else in the discussion. Don't be discouraged. As long as you truly believe in your opinion and can back up what you have to say, feel free to say it! And that goes for everyone! No one should be scared of being chastised because they expressed an opinion.

With that said, I really have no opinion on this whole "paper" topic. I just don't like to see people yelled at for what they say.

Have a great day!

[jazbri]

I must humbly ask 1Blonde to clarify the statement: Also I think much of his attitude, one where he's automatically prepared to hate without looking at the entire picture, is too common not just among greeks who "pledged" but among alot of black people facing change period.

I wasn't aware that it's common for us, black people, per se to hate without looking at the entire people due to a resistance to change. Generalizations, especially 'racial generalizations' are quite damaging.

[Reds695]

I was really surprised that this topic got so many responses in a short period of time. You may ask why did I even post this question. The reason is that many people on this board seem to dance around this issue. When someone ask the question, "what will happen if I don't pledge" they are given unrealistic answers. Everyone says their organization doesn't haze. But we all know that if you don't pledge, you will be outcasted and its not pleasant at all. Yes it is important to work in your organization, but it is also meant to be fun.

[1Blonde]

I don't at all mind being "yelled" at. I know I can be aggressive. I expect it in return

Okay, I'll register. I don't really see a point to it, but if it will reassure others that a committment is being made to the community of posters, then fine.

As far as the other poster's question:
I wasn't aware that it's common for us, black people, per se to hate without looking at the entire people due to a resistance to change. Generalizations, especially 'racial generalizations' are quite damaging.

That's not exactly what I said. I said being automatically prepared to hate without looking at the entire picture, is too common not just among greeks who "pledged" but among alot of black people facing change period.

Note the "among alot of" is not an "in every case and all the time." This in fact is actually true for most groups of people. But since I am black and I am linking Black Greeks with the larger community I phrased it specifically that way.

Some examples of this would be the political tension in LA between black and Latino leaders. Several black leaders are unwilling to make their stances more inclusive given the large numbers of brown immigrants that now live in their communities. There's often animosity between black Americans and black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean in several major cities. Both of these examples are based on people, black people, ready to hate( and I mean hate more so in the hip-hop culture definition than Webster's) than accept change or see that the bigger picture ( which in both cases is pooling power and resources to get a bigger sliver of the pie altogether instead of infighting over scant resources)

[Sexy Mocha]

I don't think anyone is being yelled at...THIS IS YELLING AT SOMEONE. But, sometimes it does happen , get over it!

ANYWAY..........

Blonde1, I just got home and checked this forum...and you seem like you've become more pleasant since this morning. (And please don't say anything smart like " My being pleasant has nothing to do with you."
I know it doesn't! And... I knew you couldn't be that bad of a person. I just think you're opinions/ideas are so much easier to digest if you don't come off so rudely. I'm really out of here this time...it's been a real experience "conversing" with you!

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 30, 2000).]

[Rain Man]

This is a very interesting discussion, to say the least.

As far as Alpha Phi Omega is concerned, check this out:

While we have an MIP program geared very similarly to those of the NPHC orgs, our policy is that all prospective MUST PLEDGE! MIP is for chapters at schools that prohibit pledging and the school administration must submit such a statement to APO's national office IN WRITING! Thus we have very few brothers that officially go through MIP.

The irony to that effect is this: Many of our chapters pledge brothers in the name of membership intake and have a MIP oriented process. Go figure.

Of course, the chapters at the HBCUs play the pledging card to the hilt.

Yes, I PLEDGED HARD! I didn't get my @$$ beat, but I can say I PLEDGED A SERVICE FRAT!

I got a question to the NPHC orgs in the next post...

Rain Man

[Rain Man]

To the NPHC orgs

I understand your concerns on the whole paper/real debate, but if I am not mistaken, wasn't the whole MIP created because many of the colleges and universities was ready to expel all NPHC orgs off the respective campuses? Thus drastic measures call for drastic actions? I am just curious.

If someone joins an NPHC org "paper" can (s)he become "real" postinitiately or is (s)he marked for life, like Hester Prynne ("The Scarlet Letter").

Please be careful when dealing with a brother/sister who went in "paper". You could be discouraging someone who has/had true love for the organization, but simply wasn't allowed the opportunity to show it the way you would like to see it (I SAY THIS FROM FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE, and the brother in question got so disgusted, he wrote a letter to Nationals formally renouncing his oath and membership in the fraternity).
email me if you would like the details.

In short, rather than complain about MIP in a forum such as this, appeal to your National Offices to change such practices, or implement what you feel would be a doable pledge program and submit it to your National delegation.

Hey, I'm on your side all the way.

Da Rain Man

[mwedzi]

Dang yall. This is like the topic that won't die.

I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

Romans 16:17