Rush-related questions

[m0rgan]

This whole situation seems crazy. You might be able to contact someone and the sorority would give you a bid again... but if I were you I wouldn't take it. I think it would be awkward, and I think that you could join a sorority next fall that was better organized. Whatever you decide, good luck!

[Indie_Superstar]

Originally posted by m0rgan
This whole situation seems crazy. You might be able to contact someone and the sorority would give you a bid again... but if I were you I wouldn't take it. I think it would be awkward, and I think that you could join a sorority next fall that was better organized. Whatever you decide, good luck!

Good point, Morgan.....I'm pretty surprised that the sorority would go and retract a bid after having already extended it to Kelly. Whether they did it maliciously, or just out of poor organization, it doesn't reflect very well on them. Imagine what would happen if word got out? (I'm not saying Kelly will go and spread rumours around, but I'm sure she has friends, and possibly a roommate, who saw what happened, and there are likely some girls in the chapter who wanted her, and are now upset.) Then people would be all like, "Oh, don't rush ABC, remember that nice girl Kelly from Blahblah Hall? She rushed ABC and got a bid, but the VERY NEXT DAY, when she e-mailed the ABC's to accept her bid, they retracted it." I'm not Greek, but I'm sure that there must be some fairer ways to handle the situation of the chapter accidentally handing out too many bids, for example, they could give all the girls their bids, but then forfeit their right to do C.O.B. later on in the semester. I'm sure that it must have happened enough times over the years that most sororities are probably equipped with some kind of plan, just in case. Oh, and Kelly.....this isn't your fault, you sound like a very nice girl, and I'll be sending you happy vibes whether or not you decide to rush for that, or ANY sorority again in the fall.

[TxGirl]

NPC rules say you can't punish a group by not allowing them to get to chapter total or to quota.

I'm assuming this was COB events that brought the situation about - not formal recruitment. If you had received a bid during formal recruitment, then (as said before) would have signed a formal bid card (can't remember what the new NPC term is for it) and that would have bound you to that chapter for a year. This means that you could only be a member of that group until your year had past. You couldn't take a bid from another group until then - either through formal recruitment or through COB.

As for COB errors - many things could have happened.

The MVP could have extended to many bids.

Someone that was give a bid before Kelly could ha
ve declined and then accepted and they felt that she should be given the spot (I wouldn't agree but it's possible).

They could have miscounted the number of bids they could actually extend and the advisor was the one who caught it. Although as the Advisor I would have go to Greek Life with this and hoped to be allowed to take the extra bid, but perhaps they didn't think of it or knew it would be denied.

So, I don't think it was necessarily malicious on anyones part, I think that (as is always said on GC) that if fall is formal recruitment for your school, you should go through with an open mind. There is no telling what happened and who wants to beat a dead horse - they just start to smell

Kelly could go through recruitment and find that this is really the chapter for her - obviously she already felt that way if she was willing to accept a bid in the first place.

So, to answer your questions:

Thanks a lot!

Is it likely that they would remember me and invite me back after the first night during fall recruitment?

Maybe yes, maybe no. I would think so though since most officers take their positions in the spring the person that was in charge of recruitment in the spring will be in charge in the fall (assuming that fall is formal recruitment).

Another thing I was wondering about is if the chapters that didn't offer me a bid would even consider me.

Sure, unless you don't have grades. I think you need to work on the assumption that they gave out to many bids - not that they "suddenly" didn't like you for some reason.

I realize this is probably extremely early to be worrying about this. I'm just trying to get recs together and trying to figure out whether I should go ahead and get them for those chapters.

It's never to early to start making contacts for recs. Granted it's supposed to be the chapters responsibility to get rec for women they are interested in - but of course that doesn't happen. Especially since it is so much easier for one person to get one for each chapter than for each chapter to get one for say the 300 women going through recruitment. But, GC is a great place to start making contacts for recs - I'm sure you've already got a few supporters who will write one for you after this post.

So, my advise is - go though fall recruitment, get your recs in order now and KEEP AN OPEN MIND for all chapters on your campus

[Indie_Superstar]

Originally posted by TxGirl
NPC rules say you can't punish a group by not allowing them to get to chapter total or to quota.

I'm assuming this was COB events that brought the situation about - not formal recruitment. If you had received a bid during formal recruitment, then (as said before) would have signed a formal bid card (can't remember what the new NPC term is for it) and that would have bound you to that chapter for a year. This means that you could only be a member of that group until your year had past. You couldn't take a bid from another group until then - either through formal recruitment or through COB.

As for COB errors - many things could have happened.

The MVP could have extended to many bids.

Someone that was give a bid before Kelly could ha
ve declined and then accepted and they felt that she should be given the spot (I wouldn't agree but it's possible).

They could have miscounted the number of bids they could actually extend and the advisor was the one who caught it. Although as the Advisor I would have go to Greek Life with this and hoped to be allowed to take the extra bid, but perhaps they didn't think of it or knew it would be denied.

So, I don't think it was necessarily malicious on anyones part, I think that (as is always said on GC) that if fall is formal recruitment for your school, you should go through with an open mind. There is no telling what happened and who wants to beat a dead horse - they just start to smell

Kelly could go through recruitment and find that this is really the chapter for her - obviously she already felt that way if she was willing to accept a bid in the first place.

So, to answer your questions:

Thanks a lot!

Is it likely that they would remember me and invite me back after the first night during fall recruitment?

Maybe yes, maybe no. I would think so though since most officers take their positions in the spring the person that was in charge of recruitment in the spring will be in charge in the fall (assuming that fall is formal recruitment).

Another thing I was wondering about is if the chapters that didn't offer me a bid would even consider me.

Sure, unless you don't have grades. I think you need to work on the assumption that they gave out to many bids - not that they "suddenly" didn't like you for some reason.

I realize this is probably extremely early to be worrying about this. I'm just trying to get recs together and trying to figure out whether I should go ahead and get them for those chapters.

It's never to early to start making contacts for recs. Granted it's supposed to be the chapters responsibility to get rec for women they are interested in - but of course that doesn't happen. Especially since it is so much easier for one person to get one for each chapter than for each chapter to get one for say the 300 women going through recruitment. But, GC is a great place to start making contacts for recs - I'm sure you've already got a few supporters who will write one for you after this post.

So, my advise is - go though fall recruitment, get your recs in order now and KEEP AN OPEN MIND for all chapters on your campus

The only thing that leaves me a little cold about this whole thing is, why does that chapter consider Kelly an "extra?" I mean, it's totally their loss, but seriously......isn't there something in the rule book that says something about, "If you gave out too many bids by accident, you can just GIVE all the girls their bids, so you don't have any drama or hurt feelings, but then your chapter can't participate in the next round of C.O.B." or something to that effect? Or, the chapter could have given out the proper number of bids in the first place, and then snapped Kelly......or not, in which case she could have accepted a bid to another group, and she wouldn't have to feel bad. I'm not Greek, so I don't know these things exactly, but I'm just wondering, where do you draw the line between following the rules, and doing the "nice" thing? Like I said, Kelly's friends and roommates aren't going to know about all the rules and whatnot, they're just going to see "Kelly rushed ABC and got a bid, but then they retracted it less than 24 hours later!!! How mean!!!" I'm not saying that the ABC's necessarily did it to be mean, but whatever the case, they're probably shooting themselves in the foot as far as public relations are concerned. I'm kind of puzzled and dismayed right now, as to why anyone would put a nice girl like Kelly through all this unnecessary stress and confusion, without even making any semblance of an attempt to clear things up for her after the fact.

[TxGirl]

No, actually there isn't anything in the NPC Green Book that says if you give out to many bids by accident you can still take the all the women that accept. Boy that would lead to drama when XYZ group just "accidently" gave out 5 or 10 more bids than they could take.

Usually there are not multiple rounds of COB unless a chapter needs quite a few women to get to chapter total or quota (which is not unheard of, but probably not the situation here). Remember, I'm going on the assumption that this is informal spring recruitment for this campus and that fall recruitment is the formal recruitment period. All that being said, this is the "norm" of what would happen in that situation:

1. Each chapter would have women that graduate in December, that voluntarily suspend their membership, that don't make their grades and are suspended or that don't pay their dues and are suspended or leave school for one reason or another.

2. They then ask two questions: a) did we make quota during formal recruitment and b) are after all of the things that happened in #1 are we at chapter total.

If the answer to A is no - then they are allowed to take the number of women it takes them to reach quota - even if it puts them over chapter total.

If the answer to A is yes - then they go onto B and if they are not at chapter total they are allowed to take the number of women it takes them to reach chapter total.

If the answer to both questions is no and taking quota doesn't put them at chapter total then they are allowed to take that number plus the number that would put them at chapter total.

Confused yet???

3. Unless the chapter is having membership problems they will probably only need to take a few girls. Depending on chapter size (and since I'm not sure where Kelly is, I don't know if chapters are large or small) it could be anywhere from 2-3 women to 15-20 women. Most chapters will be able to do one big "push" (meaning maybe a week or so of activities with lots of PR etc) and get the number of women they need. Unless they need more than 20 (which doesn't sound like the case here) the chapter usually likes to get it done so that they can get all their new members pledged at the same time so that they are all in the same place in the new member program. Usually chapters that need larger numbers do COB for a couple of weeks and then stop and will take a second or third new member class later in the semester.

Also remember that informal recruitment is not like formal recruitment. You have your events on your schedule and give out your bids as you like. Unless your local Panhellenic has a rule, I don't believe that there is a time limit that you must give for women to decide to accept a bid. If you have a big number of bids you can give, then you can leave them out indefinately. Usually, even in that instance, the women are given a deadline on when to accept. I would say 24-48 hours is the norm, but some groups may want you do decide by the end of the day.

Informal recruitment is just that - informal, unstructured execpt to what the chapter wants and needs. There is no formal bid list that is turned in to be paired up with the potential new members (PNMs) choices - just a list of the chapters new members and the university's version of a binding acceptance of the bid.

So, since there is not "bid list" and they were probably at chapter total - they can't snap bid. Snap bid is a term used during formal recruitment (although some use it interchangable with COB - but they aren't the same). Only those chapters that did not make quota during bid matching can give out a snap bid. Snap bidding usually takes place in the in the two or three hours after formal bid matching, but before the presentation of new members to the chapters and before the PNM's get their actual bids. The idea behind snap bidding is that you are given the bid and allowed to mix in with those that got a "regular" bid. COB happens after all the PNM's receive their bids and at that time any chapter that has openings is allowed to give out a bid. This could be because a PNM didn't accept their bid or because even by taking quota the chapter is still not at chapter total.


The NPC Green Book doesn't leave room for "nice" in this situation. This would be up to the Panhellenic or the Greek/Panhellenic Advisor. Ultimately, our goal is for all women to have a place in our systems that want a place. I think had the chapter explained the situation an exception would have been made, but you never know. Perhaps the situation had come up in the past and the exception hadn't been made, so they didn't ask. It also could be that they gave her 24 hours. They realized their error and her exact 24 hours were up . . .

As I said in my earlier post, we need to give the chapter the benefit of the doubt that they were not doing this to be mean. We are given Kelly the benefit of the doubt that it played out exactly as she said in terms of time - but maybe her 24 hours was up at 3 pm the next day and not at midnight (which maybe would have been 33 hours).

I'm sure the chapter could have handled the situation better as far as giving reasons they could not allow her to become a member. Ultimately, this may be the best for Kelly. She may go through formal recruitment and decided that it would have been a mistake to be in this chapter and that her true sisters are in another chapter.

As always - OPEN MINDS during formal recruitment make for the best choices!

[Indie_Superstar]

Originally posted by TxGirl
No, actually there isn't anything in the NPC Green Book that says if you give out to many bids by accident you can still take the all the women that accept. Boy that would lead to drama when XYZ group just "accidently" gave out 5 or 10 more bids than they could take.

Usually there are not multiple rounds of COB unless a chapter needs quite a few women to get to chapter total or quota (which is not unheard of, but probably not the situation here). Remember, I'm going on the assumption that this is informal spring recruitment for this campus and that fall recruitment is the formal recruitment period. All that being said, this is the "norm" of what would happen in that situation:

1. Each chapter would have women that graduate in December, that voluntarily suspend their membership, that don't make their grades and are suspended or that don't pay their dues and are suspended or leave school for one reason or another.

2. They then ask two questions: a) did we make quota during formal recruitment and b) are after all of the things that happened in #1 are we at chapter total.

If the answer to A is no - then they are allowed to take the number of women it takes them to reach quota - even if it puts them over chapter total.

If the answer to A is yes - then they go onto B and if they are not at chapter total they are allowed to take the number of women it takes them to reach chapter total.

If the answer to both questions is no and taking quota doesn't put them at chapter total then they are allowed to take that number plus the number that would put them at chapter total.

Confused yet???

3. Unless the chapter is having membership problems they will probably only need to take a few girls. Depending on chapter size (and since I'm not sure where Kelly is, I don't know if chapters are large or small) it could be anywhere from 2-3 women to 15-20 women. Most chapters will be able to do one big "push" (meaning maybe a week or so of activities with lots of PR etc) and get the number of women they need. Unless they need more than 20 (which doesn't sound like the case here) the chapter usually likes to get it done so that they can get all their new members pledged at the same time so that they are all in the same place in the new member program. Usually chapters that need larger numbers do COB for a couple of weeks and then stop and will take a second or third new member class later in the semester.

Also remember that informal recruitment is not like formal recruitment. You have your events on your schedule and give out your bids as you like. Unless your local Panhellenic has a rule, I don't believe that there is a time limit that you must give for women to decide to accept a bid. If you have a big number of bids you can give, then you can leave them out indefinately. Usually, even in that instance, the women are given a deadline on when to accept. I would say 24-48 hours is the norm, but some groups may want you do decide by the end of the day.

Informal recruitment is just that - informal, unstructured execpt to what the chapter wants and needs. There is no formal bid list that is turned in to be paired up with the potential new members (PNMs) choices - just a list of the chapters new members and the university's version of a binding acceptance of the bid.

So, since there is not "bid list" and they were probably at chapter total - they can't snap bid. Snap bid is a term used during formal recruitment (although some use it interchangable with COB - but they aren't the same). Only those chapters that did not make quota during bid matching can give out a snap bid. Snap bidding usually takes place in the in the two or three hours after formal bid matching, but before the presentation of new members to the chapters and before the PNM's get their actual bids. The idea behind snap bidding is that you are given the bid and allowed to mix in with those that got a "regular" bid. COB happens after all the PNM's receive their bids and at that time any chapter that has openings is allowed to give out a bid. This could be because a PNM didn't accept their bid or because even by taking quota the chapter is still not at chapter total.


The NPC Green Book doesn't leave room for "nice" in this situation. This would be up to the Panhellenic or the Greek/Panhellenic Advisor. Ultimately, our goal is for all women to have a place in our systems that want a place. I think had the chapter explained the situation an exception would have been made, but you never know. Perhaps the situation had come up in the past and the exception hadn't been made, so they didn't ask. It also could be that they gave her 24 hours. They realized their error and her exact 24 hours were up . . .

As I said in my earlier post, we need to give the chapter the benefit of the doubt that they were not doing this to be mean. We are given Kelly the benefit of the doubt that it played out exactly as she said in terms of time - but maybe her 24 hours was up at 3 pm the next day and not at midnight (which maybe would have been 33 hours).

I'm sure the chapter could have handled the situation better as far as giving reasons they could not allow her to become a member. Ultimately, this may be the best for Kelly. She may go through formal recruitment and decided that it would have been a mistake to be in this chapter and that her true sisters are in another chapter.

As always - OPEN MINDS during formal recruitment make for the best choices!

Wow, that is confusing......I'm sorry, I'm just kind of rooting for Kelly here.....and as for "next round of C.O.B.," I meant the next YEAR, if it's after spring C.O.B. But anyway, I'm just hoping that one of these days, everything will work out for Kelly, and she'll come on here and tell us that she's a brand new sister of......ABC!!!! Or........XYZ!!!!!!! Or........she's decided to join the student government/choir/debate club/Model U.N. club/basketball team/underwater basket weaving club, or whatever floats her boat, you know? (Maybe the rowing team, if her school has one--yes, pun fully intended, lol).

[ARADPi]

Originally posted by Zillini
I've never understood this. Granted my Mom was the first woman in her family to go to college and she was a GDI, so I never had any pressure. But even still I don't understand why anyone would want to force their child to pledge ABC just because they were. Don't you want your kid to be happy? Maybe ABC was the best sorority on campus 18 years ago when you were there, but times change. Who knows what it's like today. Plus, chapters can be radically different from one campus to another.

I, am the daughter of a GDI...I'm the first Greek ever in my family.

I went through Formal Recruitment in Fall 2004 with many girls who were major legacies or who were under immense pressure from their mother to join the "right" sorority, whichever one she deamed to be the "right" one. Several were prepared to transfer schools and rush again if they didn't get a bid from that one specific sorority that they felt was the "right sorority".

In some cases, it is a benevolent kind of presure in which the mother tells her daughter things like "I loved my years in the XYZ house" and "Wouldn't you like to be sisters?"

In other cases the girl has grown up hearing "ABC is the only way to go" and "Only a fool would chose another sorority" and "Don't you want to be popular/ successful etc?" and "How are you going to find a husband/ get into law school or medical school/ go into politics etc if you don't go ABC?"

I saw girls sobbing while trying to decide which house to Pref because they LOVED ABC, but their mother, grandmothers, sisters and aunts were all XYZs and they would be so disappointed in her...

During Rush we were encouraged NOT to call home during Rush week and talk to our parents/ siblings/ boyfriends, etc for fear that they would try to influence our decisions. Also, after the Pref Night ceremonies all of the PNMs go to the student union and sign their Pref Cards. After they sign their cards, they must wait in the union until the bid lists are made up... I didnt get back to my dorm until 3am! And, while girls are inside attending Pref Ceremonies the Gamma Chi check their bags and confiscate cell phones so that PNMs cannot call anyone before or while they fill out their Pref Card.

Back to the topic at hand... I wish Kelly the best of luck! I'm sure that if she decides to Rush in the Fall she will find a house that is right for her, and that she will be an asset to teh Greek community at her school!

[alphaalpha]

Also a daughter of a GDI, actually 3rd member of my whole entire large catholic family to go to college all of my family, except me is greek.

Anyway, all this pressure from mothers sounds like horrid abuse. I mean pressuring someone in this way is similar to what others would define as abuse. For me especially the part about getting married. My female relatives have this nice list of how am i ever to get married if i don't ..... This is just crazy to me.

Also, i did not really understand the cell phone thing until i thought about it for awhile. We were not allowed to talk to anybody during rush, ie family, boyfriends, ect. I quess i never really understood until now. It is sad to see that people treat their daughters like this, but it is also nice to know that i am not the only person who has relatives who act like this.

If i ever have a daughter i would/will never make her feel like she has to join a sorority, maybe go to college but that is different.8)

[carnation]

Originally posted by alphaalpha
Also a daughter of a GDI, actually 3rd member of my whole entire large catholic family to go to college all of my family, except me is greek.

You just told a mod you were Greek and didn't want to say which group.

[CarolinaDG]

Do you mean everyone except you is NOT greek? How else could you be a daughter of a GDI if your whole family is greek? I'm confused...

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by CarolinaDG
Do you mean everyone except you is NOT greek? How else could you be a daughter of a GDI if your whole family is greek? I'm confused...

I was thinking the same thing but the wording still points to the previous idea. Hmmmmm...

[GeekyPenguin]

I think that alphaalpha meant that she was the only one to go to college and join a Greek organization - like saying "we all are BLAH BLAH BLAH, except that I personally am Greek."

[33girl]

Originally posted by alphaalpha
I'm also a daughter of a GDI. I'm actually the 3rd member of my whole entire large catholic family to go to college. All of my family is GDI, except me, who is greek.

Maybe that makes more sense?

[AchtungBaby80]

I'm so glad I didn't listen to my family during rush...if I had, who knows where I would've ended up.

I was really interested to read about this whole bid-retracting situation...I've never heard of that happening. It sounds a little shady to me, but it could've been an honest mistake. I think the OP should investigate this a little, if not because she wants to join (because I'd have serious doubts after this, too) but just to understand what happened.

[alphaalpha]

Originally posted by carnation
You just told a mod you were Greek and didn't want to say which group.

in that post? huh and No i have never said what group i am in. I have told many people that.

And also, yes i am the only person in my family to be greek. My point was a little bragging, that i am only the 3rd person in my extreamly large family to go to college and i am the only one greek so i can not understand the pressure that mothers/family members put on their daughters/children.

Sorry for any confusion. Sorry, brain doesn't work sometimes.