Wacky Article about Underground LCA chapter - Page 3

GammaZeta · #31 03-18-2005, 02:09 AM

I would say they are simply a group of guys. I'm pretty sure after 13 years that they don't follow alot of LXA traditions. LXA members have strict guidelines in ritual, etc., so when an underground chapter does it for almost a decade, I'm sure they have eliminated and added many parts to it because of the lack of guidelines.

I just think the end result should be that they don't use our letters anymore. Like Richards said, you can't stop them from forming a group.

LXAAlum · #32 03-18-2005, 02:56 AM

The group in question may have been an LXA chapter in the past, and they may have been disciplined and closed, but the plaintiff lawyer won't care, the families / survivors won't care, and the media won't care.

That last part is the important one. Bad PR is never a good thing - the media won't care whether it's an underground or regular chapter - the name LXA will be spread in a very negative manner.

Gamma, I agree that they are kids, and they shouldn't be punished severly for something like copyright infringement - my concern is the risk management side. The potential civil lawsuits that could stem from an underground chapter will still cost LXA IHQ thousands in legal fees simply to prove they aren't liable.

Then again, even though they are "kids" - they are 18 or so in age - legal adults when it comes to legal matters.

GammaZeta · #33 03-18-2005, 03:19 AM

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I still believe that any judge in his/her right mind would not allow such a frivolous suit to go forward. Anyways, would'nt the university be just as liable and have deeper pockets than LXA? Shouldn't the greek system should have handled it?

LXA won't be held responsible for something a person, with absolutely no ties to the fraternity, does. It's a baseless claim.

And if it was allowed, think of how it would change our system. Now anyone convicted of a crime can simply state they are part of an organization/fraternity/sorority (true or not) and automatically be covered under the insurance?

Here is my personal opinion that I think we all share. I consider it utter bull$hit that a national organization is held responsible for something a member does. Why aren't the parents, school, coaches, church held equally responsible? I am still shocked that judges have continued to uphold the fraternities responsibility of all aspects in a members life and not other organizations. Why isn't Ron Artest's team held responsible for his actions? Why aren't the Masons held responsible for all their membership? If a person screws up, frat member or not, it should be that persons responsibility for compensation.

I don't think that simply because 1, 2 or 3 people commit a crime outside of the realm of fraternity that the national organization should be held responsible.

LXAAlum · #34 03-18-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GammaZeta

I don't think that simply because 1, 2 or 3 people commit a crime outside of the realm of fraternity that the national organization should be held responsible.

Unfortunately, enough legal precedent has been set with civil lawsuits against chapters, International headquarters of fraternities, officers, and in some cases even alumni of chapters to prove this false.

Not that I don't disagree with you, I wish it were true, but that is not how civil lawsuits have worked. That's why LXA will need to aggressively protect itself.

Tom Earp · #35 03-18-2005, 07:15 PM

Granted, anyone can form a group.

Using Letters, Badges, Coats of Arms, Ritual Equipment of a International Fraternity is illegal. How much has LXA Ritual really changed over the years?

The real rub to this is as LXAAlum said, if something does happen, it falls back on us as Members of LXA. How, costs of legal fees to present that "This Group" is not a part of LXA.

Now, whether if it is a jury case, how will the jury go? They will say more should have been done to keep this group from using LXAs Name and Letters.

It still boils down to the fact that LXA Int. will never go back to SRU as long as this "Group" exists.

Dont ever think that LXA has a lot of money, We dont. Most Nationals are in the same boat as We are. Expenses for what is given to us as Members, Active or Alum is tremendous compared to many others.

We are the fortunate few in Greekdom.

Ask any good lawyer, there are Lawsuits hourly, frivilous as some seem, they are still being filed for what ever reason, and actually that is money.

John can verify this, many lawsuits are settled out of court just so costs can be saved in the long run.

gezpitt · #36 03-31-2005, 01:41 AM

As an undergrad at Pitt, I actually made a roadtrip to Slippery Rock with a few brothers. Their house was big and had a few acres of land all to itself. The membership was alive and well, approx. 50 or so actives at the time.

As for their traditions the underground chapter held true to almost all LCA heritage. The collection of Assoc. Member class paddles was impressive and dated from the present all the way back to the chapters colonization. The members were very proud to be LCA, despite the fact that the chapter was not recognied.

As for the ritual, and without getting too specific, the chapter did have it and used it. It was something that all members took very seriously. The one big difference was that it was conducted on a very very large scale. Even though I hold the ritual near and dear to my heart, I have to admit that I was very impressed by the theatrical type twists they used.

They treated all the Pitt LCA's with great respect. Many of them held out hope that a formal recoloniation could eventually take place.

As for other PA underground LCA chapters, I did meet an AXP from Bloomsberg who mentioned that his chapter sprang from the remnants of the disbanded LCA chapter of the early to mid 1990's.

ZAX

GammaZeta · #37 03-31-2005, 02:58 PM

Why wouldn't LXA HQ give these guys a charter? Because of something that may have happened 5 or 10 years ago? As long as the trouble makers are gone or not involved, what's the problem? HQ holds grudges for far too long. I remember my chapter still being on probation about 5 years after an incident, even though anyone involved was long gone. Their punishments are far too drawn out. Why should the newer brothers pay for sins that they weren't even involved with or were even brothers at the time?

Anyways, why wouldn't LXA make these guys official? We all know HQ is hurting for $$$, think about an extra 50 guys paying dues, and then their associates paying fees, and then alumni contributions. It adds up.

And if HQ is worried about lawsuits and bad press, why not make them official? Then they would be insured, paying dues, and HQ could then regulate them.

LXAAlum · #38 03-31-2005, 03:03 PM

First of all, LXA can't recognize those "brothers" - read the Constitution and Statutory Code.

Second - I understand your frustration on a timeline more than you know. When UNC (Northern Colorado) was closed in 1989, we were told LXA would return in 5 years.

Yeah. Right.

5 years went by, then 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 long years before the recolonization actually happened.

There are too many variables to recolonizing that LXA HQ doesn't have control over such as actual campus climate, campus greek reputation, current greek system "health", and on and on....

Waiting to recolonize UNC truly taught me the virtue of PATIENCE. And doing things the right way.

GammaZeta · #39 03-31-2005, 03:42 PM

Just curious, but there is no way the brothers from that chapter could ever be a LXA, ever? I don't have the constitution or code handy, well, actually I don't have them at all anymore since I moved.

Just from a common sense perspective, it would only make sense to invite those brothers in. I mean it is more $$$ for nationals and an already established chapter without all the re-colonizing work. How often do LXA chapters with 50 guys suddenly appear?

The positive things are the dues, they are then insured, and HQ can monitor and regulate them.

I mean, they are kids that WANT to be a LXA. It would be different if the underground chapter was competing with a recognized chapter on campus, but it's not. There is no LXA chapter there. Just my thoughts.

gezpitt · #40 03-31-2005, 03:55 PM

I'm not sure what the current state of the Slippery Rock chapter is, as it was at least 8 years ago since I was there. I believe the active chpater had numerous risk management violations, as well as, owed national a very large sum of money.

As much as I would love to see another LXA colony, there is a substantial risk in starting a colony that has operated under its own "underground" management. That is not to say some of the underground chapter's membership would be a good fit for a recognized colony, however some members would most not likely not be able to abide by today's standards. Thereby, the overall success of the colony would be at risk.

Personally, I would love to see LXA step up national recruitment efforts. I believe, over the last 15 years, we have substantially fallen behind the likes of SIgEp, Kappa Sig, and PIKA in terms of innovative, effective, and quality recruitment. If anyone has any doubt as to this, I would recommend checking out the recuitment section of the SigEP national site. The resources there are amazing. Their colonization process is also something that LXA can learn from and improve upon.

Mooch279 · #41 03-31-2005, 05:19 PM

SigEp have an innovative recruitment stratagy, judging from the chapter that was at my school it is to laugh....hahaha. Basically give anyone a bid. Altimately thats what did them in. they got guys who wanted to wear letters, as soon as they lost their charter they became a local for a year and then became TKE. Guys who had been brothers for years just picked up went on going. At least the underground LCA chapter stay loyal and have some love for what they have on their chests.

Tom Earp · #42 03-31-2005, 05:24 PM

Still, besides the legal ramifications, if this group is not recognized by IHQ, they will never be Brothers of LXA.

They will just be an underground group using LXA equipment and holding supposedly to the same ideals.

That seems to be the main question that comes to mind, where does it leave these young men who Associated and went through a Ritual that is not sanctioned or recognized by IHQ!

GammaZeta · #43 03-31-2005, 05:30 PM

I say let the guys in. IHQ may not recognize them as brothers, but I sure as hell do. If someone makes the sacrifice, takes the time and effort to become a LXA, even if IHQ doesn't want them, goes through ritual, they are brothers in my eyes.

JonoBN41 · #44 03-31-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GammaZeta
And if HQ is worried about lawsuits and bad press, why not make them official? Then they would be insured, paying dues, and HQ could then regulate them.

...and HQ could then regulate them??? Um, wasn't that the problem in the first place? Your logic just took a nosedive, pal.

How are you going to monitor and regulate a group that already rejects it, and is going about things the wrong way (which is any way they damn well please)? It's already a non-starter.

GammaZeta · #45 03-31-2005, 06:55 PM

It is actually just the opposite. The underground chapters never rejected HQ, HQ rejected the underground chapters.

Just look at this from the Underground chapter list post:

"I have talked to brothers at James Madison and Richmond, these are both UNDERGROUND CHAPTERS. James Madison has a lot of influential alumni and they have been trying VERY hard to get their charter back, they have a website and the three brothers I met that came down to Tennessee were really good guys that had an extensive knowledge of our fraternity, most impressive undergraduate brothers I have ever met. Richmond, likes being underground and it does not look like they are getting their charter back anytime soon but they are still well respected on their campus, as an undergraduate Lambda Chi Alpha chapter."

HQ doesn't want them, like LXA Alum said in his past post, it's in the code and consitution. Some of these underground chapters follow LXA rules better than and have more respect than a recognized chapter.

So my logic is flying pretty high. I say HQ gives them a charter.