Christian Fraternity Sues To Keep Out Gays

Originally posted by Tom Earp
"Hi, I am a good Christian Organization and want to be recognized so We can get Schools funding.

Oh, We dont allow anyone who is Gay, Black, Brown, of what ever!

If you do not agree with us, We will Sue You!

""" SCREW THEM""""!

That is all!

I think there is a huge difference on an organization not accepting someone because they are gay and not accepting them because of their skin color. Skin color is not a question of morality (for most people, there are a few who are crazy). But I understand what you are saying

Anyway, homosexuals can be Christians, Iconoclastic. Just because it is believed by some to be a sin, are you saying that Christians are not sinners? We know that is certainly not the case.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by 33girl
HI FRED!!!

Harvey Fierstein called, you left your panties at his house.

And they were in such a tight little wad.

[Tom Earp]

To sad to be true

Or it could be a typo!

[kddani]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic
[B}As for the other immature responses, I am no longer moved by those anymore.
[/B]

immature must equal something you know you can't answer.

I simply asked what medical doctor has proven that being gay is a choice. Legitimate question, obviously you have no legitimate answer

[HelloKitty22]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic
If your above premise is true, then does this fit for any organization?

The short answer is "yes." You have probably never tried but I'm sure that you could join the homosexual organization on campus, even though I am assuming you are not in fact a homosexual. You could probably join the organization for students of color or the woman's organization (I am assuming for the sake of argument that you are a guy and white... although I don't know if you ever actually said either way). At my college the Baptist student center was open to me even though I wasn't Baptist and I could go to Hillel events even though I wasn't Jewish. Just because these groups have "labels" does not mean that they are "exclusive" (meaning they prohibit students from joining because they are not a member of a race, sex, religion or sexual orientation). The ones which choose to be exclusive don't get funding. For example, on my campus, Chabad refused to allow non-jews to participate in activities and they were therefore prohibited from receiving school funds.

I am not a UNC student, so I don't know how UNC does it but many schools don't fund or recognize exclusive organizations. Some schools recognize them but don't fund them. Others fund them but only allow them to use the funds for functions or programs open to the entire student body, not for internal group functions.

The point is the university has the right to say "we don't want to condone exclusion of students from student organizations based on sexual orientation." Furthermore, your assertion that your right to exclude is in itself a form of "diversity" is silly. While the first amendment protects your right to exclude people from associating with you, it does not establish exclusivity as a right entitled to assistance by universities. The law says we cannot force you to associate with people you don't want to but the state and the university has no affirmative duty to aid you in doing so.

[PrettyGirl03]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic
Christians have specific rights. You may not agree with them, but the time to stand up is now. Gay is a CHOICE and that is a PROVEN FACT. You cannot be gay and a Christian at the same time. You may in sone other religion. The Christians' truth differs from anothers' truth. That does not mean we have to bow to another. As for your silly analogy about skin color; how many CHOSE their ethnic group and color? Alpha Iota Omega should not have even had to sue. I knew this was coming three years ago at Chapel Hill because of THEIR NO TOLERANCE policy. If it is REALLY all about DIVERSITY, then they ought to be able to choose their membership.

Did you choose to become heterosexual? Because if you did, then you are admitting that the option to be homosexual was also on your plate, and that option is still available to you at your conveniece.

Heterosexuality doesn't mean you are a Christian. Following the teachings of Jesus Christ means you are a Christian. And before you get into the notion that the teachings of Jesus don't include homosexual activities, please take into account the FACT that many of Christians' acts are not always following the teachings of Christ, however they still refer to themselves as Christian.

You think when Christians lie, have multiple sexual affairs prior to the person they "marry," cheat, steal, are greedy, that they are any less Christian than the next one? Sin is part of human nature, and the sin of homosexuality is no greater than the sin of being greedy with your Creator by thinking you are in the position to tell another man what his relationship to God is and is not.

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by PrettyGirl03
Did you choose to become heterosexual? Because if you did, then you are admitting that the option to be homosexual was also on your plate, and that option is still available to you at your conveniece.

Heterosexuality doesn't mean you are a Christian. Following the teachings of Jesus Christ means you are a Christian. And before you get into the notion that the teachings of Jesus don't include homosexual activities, please take into account the FACT that many of Christians' acts are not always following the teachings of Christ, however they still refer to themselves as Christian.

You think when Christians lie, have multiple sexual affairs prior to the person they "marry," cheat, steal, are greedy, that they are any less Christian than the next one? Sin is part of human nature, and the sin of homosexuality is no greater than the sin of being greedy with your Creator by thinking you are in the position to tell another man what his relationship to God is and is not.

Well said.

It always amaizes me that the experts on homosexuality (that its a choice, etc.) are always the straight people.

It further amaizes me that some people claim to be experts on what god wants and what he thinks, when in reality, were all on the same page. None of us know. All we have to go by is a pretty good literary anthology that was written about 2,000 years ago.

[emb021]

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
The University could not force the group to take certain members. Unless this is a private school. Needless to say, the easiest analogy to use is this:

Would any fraternity accept women? Would they be forced to accept women because of the non-discriminatory policy? All public schools I know have such a policy and I have yet to hear of any woman joining a fraternity. Also, I have yet to see a fraternity forced to accept any person they didn't want into the organization.

All organizations have certain criteria for membership. For fraternities, you must be male. In some others you must be Christian or at least have a belief in a Creator. All organizations have beliefs. If a potential member does not comply with those beliefs, they are not invited into the organization.

Not so.

In 1972, they passed Title IX of Education Act which barred schools that received federal funding from discriminating on the basis of gender. While most people may be familiar with this act and its affect on college sports (forced schools to give women 'equivalent' sports opportunities), it ALSO affected college clubs & organizations.

Social fraternities and sororities were excluded from this act. But all other groups were not. Several all-male groups were sued under this act, and others were concerned they would be. I know that the Iron Arrow Honor Society at Univ Miami was sued under this act, and when they did not change their membership policy to admit women, they were kicked off campus. (http://www.ironarrow.com/). (when they did change this policy, they were again allowed back as an officially recognized group.). My fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega, was concerned this would also happen to its chapters. Thankfully, the voting delegates at our 1976 National Convention voted to go co-ed (but we still allowed chapters to remail all-male if they wished)

So, bottom line, a school most certainly could expect its clubs/org to be open to ALL students. What legal basis they may have I won't know.

[moe.ron]

Gay is a CHOICE and that is a PROVEN FACT.

I still would like you to back up your hypothesis that is being gay is a choice.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic
Gay is a CHOICE and that is a PROVEN FACT.

You cannot be gay and a Christian at the same time.

There is no research that proves that being gay is a choice.

The debate between biological determinism and nurture continues regarding sexual orientation. Some argue that we are born a clean slate and our sexuality is a matter of socialization. Others argue that homosexuals would never CHOOSE to be something that is so ridiculed and marginalized in this society.

I guess you have never met devout homosexual Southern Baptist ministers. I can not remember his name, but such a minister gave a lecture for my graduate class 4 years ago. He is the man who was actively involved in the "de-homosexualizing ministry" and the organization for former homosexuals. He appeared on Sally Jesse Raphael years ago and wrote an article about his experiences as a Christian homosexual who is a minister.

That organization for reformed homosexuals was a failure, by the way. The founders turned back to homosexual lifestyles.

[STL Kappa]

Gay is a CHOICE and that is a PROVEN FACT. You cannot be gay and a Christian at the same time.

Wow, I'm probably about to offend nineteen different kinds of people by what I'm about to say, but I'm horribly liberal so...

Can we please keep all the religious zealots off Greekchat??

This is in NO way meant to knock Christianity or anyone's religion for that matter... but I HATE HATE HATE how people use their religions to justify their intolerance for people who differ from them in any way. (Be it sexuality, political opinions... whatever.)

I think a majority of GCers would agree that religion is something you avoid like the plague when recruiting... it just doesn't come up because it has no bearing of how wonderful a brother or sister that person could be. (I understand that this is different for a fraternity or sorority that is founded in association with a religion. But last time I checked, religion and sexuality were hardly the same thing.)

Just like sexuality has no bearing on how wonderful a brother or sister could be. If you don't believe that, then come to Mizzou where our Greek community differs in religion, skin color, sexuality, hometown, high school, income, favorite color, major. You wouldn't cut someone because they like the color red and you like blue. Just like you shouldn't cut someone because they like men and you like women. Obviously one of these differences is much more important than the other, but in the end, aren't they both merely a matter of preference?? If someone is homosexual, then that's their sexual preference, not a measure of whether or not they are going to show up to chapter and events or if they will keep up their grades or if they will represent the brotherhood or sisterhood positively.

And, back to the quote at the beginning of this post, not only are there obviously a multitude of GCers that disagree... but I would submit that there are a number of gay Christians who would disagree as well.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by STL Kappa
Can we please keep all the religious zealots off Greekchat??

I think a majority of GCers would agree that religion is something you avoid like the plague when recruiting... it just doesn't come up because it has no bearing of how wonderful a brother or sister that person could be.

As soon as we manage to keep the race zealots, organizational zealots, regional zealots, and all other zealots off of GC.

Many NPHCers feel differently about the role of religion in membership. Religion played a big part in which young ladies expressed interest in my organization on my campus and how my chapter Sorors interact with one another.

[Buddha MaMa]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic
Christians have specific rights. You may not agree with them, but the time to stand up is now. Gay is a CHOICE and that is a PROVEN FACT. You cannot be gay and a Christian at the same time.

see this is the stuff that can get me banned!!!!


i swear if it was for tolerance! i swear i try to avoid these comments.

[33girl]

STLKappa,

This particular religious zealot has pushed his luck a number of times on GC. He knows he can't go too far or stay too long or he will have a ticket on the S. S. Ban.

You know the ambulance chaser attorneys who advertise on TV and you laugh at them? He's kind of like that.

[DeltaSigStan]

Originally posted by 33girl

You know the ambulance chaser attorneys who advertise on TV and you laugh at them? He's kind of like that.

I was stumbling home from another kegger one night, and this drunk sorority girl ran a red light and ran over my foot. I needed help, and Larry H. Parker got me 2.6 million dollars.