Pregnant Pledge

[nauadpi]

Originally posted by JocelynC
I guess it all comes down to whether chapter wants a woman who could very well only do the "minimum" level of participation.

This is my thought also...

[Little E]

Originally posted by JocelynC
I guess it all comes down to whether chapter wants a woman who could very well only do the "minimum" level of participation.

That is judgemental. How can you know what she is or is not capeable of in regards to her time? I'm not saying it isn't hard, but the realworld isn't any easier.

[WSUcheer99]

I think that joining a sorority is a very beneficial addition to any girl's life. However, you get out of it what you put into it. If she dedicates a lot of time, then it will mean more than if she just shows up at chapter meetings. If she has full time classes, a job (full or part time) and has studying on top of raising a child (which is supposed to be a full time job) then either one thing will get the short end of her time, or everything will get partial attention. Studying is important! After all we are in college to get an education, not be in a sorority. Another thing to contemplate is why is she joining a sorority. Is it because it is the "cool" thing to do or is there other reasons why she is interested. A lot of my friends jumped on the sorority boat the second we got into college and had a hard time balancing school, sorority, studying, social life as well as family/job commitments. I waited a few years and by then I was ready to balance everything. If her child is fairly young maybe she is not taking into account how much it takes to "raise" a child. I agree that IF she has a supportive family it helps, but even so I would hate to think that she would want to live the normal collegiate life so much that she never sees the child or worse yet the child thinks his grandparents are his parents. I was involved in several other organizations when I joined sorority and my love for sorority made me slowly become less active in the others. Just a thought. Obviously no one will really know the benefits/consequences until it really happens. I also agree that "society" judges girls who are unwed/young mothers and that is also a dilemma. I woudl say if it is possible, take a chapter vote and let the majority rule?

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by WSUcheer99
I think that joining a sorority is a very beneficial addition to any girl's life. However, you get out of it what you put into it. If she dedicates a lot of time, then it will mean more than if she just shows up at chapter meetings. If she has full time classes, a job (full or part time) and has studying on top of raising a child (which is supposed to be a full time job) then either one thing will get the short end of her time, or everything will get partial attention. Studying is important! After all we are in college to get an education, not be in a sorority. Another thing to contemplate is why is she joining a sorority. Is it because it is the "cool" thing to do or is there other reasons why she is interested. A lot of my friends jumped on the sorority boat the second we got into college and had a hard time balancing school, sorority, studying, social life as well as family/job commitments. I waited a few years and by then I was ready to balance everything. If her child is fairly young maybe she is not taking into account how much it takes to "raise" a child. I agree that IF she has a supportive family it helps, but even so I would hate to think that she would want to live the normal collegiate life so much that she never sees the child or worse yet the child thinks his grandparents are his parents. I was involved in several other organizations when I joined sorority and my love for sorority made me slowly become less active in the others. Just a thought. Obviously no one will really know the benefits/consequences until it really happens. I also agree that "society" judges girls who are unwed/young mothers and that is also a dilemma. I woudl say if it is possible, take a chapter vote and let the majority rule?

I'm going into diabetic shock!

[ASUADPi]

Okay, I have read all the thoughts on this topic and I have to agree with all the people who say that it is that woman's call. If she feels that she can balance being in a sorority, being a full time student and being a mother, who are we to totally blackball her and not give her a chance. Doesn't she deserve a chance just like all the other PNM's going through formal or informal recruitment? Plus, for all we know this hypothetical sister could be a better sister than the girl who doesn't have a kid.

I don't think it is for us to "punish" these girls. I had a friend who got pregnant at 14. It's not like she chose to get pregnant, it was an accident. She kept her daughter and went to college. Now had she decided to rush, should she continue to be "punished" over something that happened when she was 14? No she should't.

Now if the girl were actually pregnant going through recruitment I think it's our job as sisters to ask her what her plans are. Should we just jump to the assumption that she is keeping the baby? No. Just like we shouldn't jump to the assumption that she is giving the baby up for adoption. For all we know she could have an incredibly supportive family who is encouraging her to rush. Plus, the father might still be in the picture giving his encouragement.

I wonder how people would feel if this hypothetical PNM were a legacy?

[WSUcheer99]

Originally posted by Dionysus
I'm going into diabetic shock!

You are going into diabetic shock because some of it may actually be a legitimate point. You response orginally stated the word "preggo". I rest my case.

[kddani]

Originally posted by ASUADPi
who are we to totally blackball her and not give her a chance. Doesn't she deserve a chance just like all the other PNM's going through formal or informal recruitment?

Well that could be said for anyone. Suzy Sadistic Druggie Prostitute could totally turn a new leaf. Does she deserve a fair chance?

No one said the girl couldn't rush. But rush is MUTUAL SELECTION. Both sides have to make choices... someone's gotta go. Just like in hiring a new person for a job... you might have a ton of people who could do the job, but you have to pick the one that can do it the best.

I wonder how people would feel if this hypothetical PNM were a legacy? [/B]

The exact same way. And she would probably get cut, too.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by WSUcheer99
You are going into diabetic shock because some of it may actually be a legitimate point. You response orginally stated the word "preggo". I rest my case.

I was talking about that sweet and colorful post of yours.

[HelloKitty22]

Originally posted by kddani
Well that could be said for anyone. Suzy Sadistic Druggie Prostitute could totally turn a new leaf. Does she deserve a fair chance?

Just like in hiring a new person for a job... you might have a ton of people who could do the job, but you have to pick the one that can do it the best.

Being a drug addict or a prostitute are both illegal and are also things which society as a general rule doesn't want to promote. Being pregnant is nothing like being either a drug addict or a prostitute. In fact, I find it a reflection of your own prejudices that you would use such a comparison.

Generally speaking society wants to support women's choice to have a child and to aid pregnant women (hence the WIC program, subsidized day care, free pre-natal care, etc.).

Why would you equate being pregnant, one of the most important jobs in society, with being a prostitute?

Furthermore, the comparison you make to job selection is also false. Are you aware that is illegal to discriminate against a women in hiring because she is pregnant or has a child? It is even illegal to ASK a women during a job interview if she is pregnant, planning to become pregnant, or if she has a child.

Sorority women historically have been trailblazers in terms of securing education and rights for women, so why are you so behind the times on this issue? Many women fought long and hard to prevent employers from discriminating against women based on their reproductive status, so isn't it ironic that the women in the country who should be the most educated and aware of these issues would be participating in it themselves?

[kddani]

Originally posted by HelloKitty22
In fact, I find it a reflection of your own prejudices that you would use such a comparison.

I find that you're being totally oversensitive, overzealous and oversanxious to write a long post criticizing someone on their opinions. You do not know me, do not know anything about my so-called prejudices, etc. You shouldn't tell someone that they're prejudiced when you're being entirely judgmental on your own right.

I was using an extreme example. Where is the line, then? Yes they're two different things, but where's the line? If you're going to make an exception for one circumstance, why not all circumstances? it's more of a theoretical question.

And if i'm prejudiced for thinking that a teenager with a child shouldn't be spending her "spare" time between class, raising a child, work, etc worrying about being in a sorority and all the hours of time involved, then so be it. Never knew I was prejudiced for valuing my ideal that one should spend time with her child.

Again, it's not leaving the child to go to work, or school or something else. It's to do a mainly social activity.

It's different that a mom having friends, going out, etc. Myself and everyone else in my chapter put a lot of time in. It's not equivalent in any way to going out once or twice a week and leaving the kid with a sitter.

Hey, it might work in some chapters, but it wouldn't work in mine. And it wouldn't work in most chapters.

[APhi Sailorgirl]

Originally posted by lifewithugs
Has anyone ever rushed/or intaked a young woman who was pregnant?

Is this downed on some sororities?

To return to the topic, the first year I was on the sister side of recruitment, we had a woman who was 26 or 28 and pregnant come through. I go to a small school and at that time, greek life and the campus in general was changing.

This woman did receive a bid from a group on campus, was initiated, and the next year was seen around campus with her new baby. (I also believe she was a senior when she went through.)

Now my campus has become much more traditional, so I don't know if the same would happen now. I do know that we still have a fairly small population of married women on campus who go through recruitment. Last year one of our new members was married and she is now the chapter's president. I feel though, that being married would be much more accepted now than being pregnant or having a child already.

[ladypi]

Originally posted by kddani
Well that could be said for anyone. Suzy Sadistic Druggie Prostitute could totally turn a new leaf. Does she deserve a fair chance?

No one said the girl couldn't rush. But rush is MUTUAL SELECTION. Both sides have to make choices... someone's gotta go. Just like in hiring a new person for a job... you might have a ton of people who could do the job, but you have to pick the one that can do it the best.



The exact same way. And she would probably get cut, too.

I agree with you Danielle. Unfortunately, if Suzy Sadistic Druggie Prostitute is the most amazing girl in the world, she is still going to be judged for membership. It isn't fair, but that is the way it. People can say until they are blue in the face that they don't judge girls seeking membership by superficial ideals such as someone being unmarried and an underclassmen, but they do.

I came from a very large Chapter in a very competitive greek system in the South. I had 58 girls in my pledge class. We would not extend a bid to a pregnant PNM. I NOT am saying that this girl wouldn't be a good mom if she were in a sorority or that she wouldn't be able to give the sorority 100 percent or be a great sister. We just wouldn't give her a bid. We most likely wouldn't give a Junior classman a bit. I know that it's harsh, and I know and it isn't fair for her to be punished.

We would never accept Suzy Sadistic Druggie Prostitute, for the mere fact that she has a "questionable reputation" and our reputation is something that is highly regarded and protected. The same goes for a sister engaging in activities that are not deemed acceptable by the chapter and it's ideals. The chapter would internally take care of the sister's actions. We wouldn't shun her or turn her away, but if for instance a sister is doing damage to herself or the chapter, it becomes an issue for the exec board and advisors. A sister always represents her chapter and her sisters in all that she does. And this isn't just my chapter at my school, it was ALL of them.

We had two girls become pregant their sophmore years. Of course they continued their membership and the chapter was very supportive with their pregnancies. However, both girls ended up disaffiliating due to time committments with the chapter they were unable to fullfill.

Now the situation maybe different at smaller schools with small chapters and I can't speak for them.

[AOIIBrandi]

I'm not sure it's discrimination as much as choosing the women who are going to carry on the chapter's legacy. Let's forget the stigma that goes along with being un-married and pregnant for a minute....


If you had 2 women to choose from (all else being equal) one we'll call Suzy freshman, and the other Jane freshman who also happens to be pregnant, who would you take the chance on? Most likely Suzy as from the outside it appears she would be the one who will most likely be able to give you a full 4 years of her time, energy, love... Jane may be very excited now about the possibility of sisterhood, but when the baby is born things will probably change and the baby, most likely, will become her whole life (as it should be) leaving little time for the sorority.

Now to address the question of discrimination against pregnant women in the business world. We all know that it is illegal to discriminate against a pregnant woman, but let's be real. Number 1, this woman would have to prove that out of the pool of candidates she was the best one for the job. Number 2, she has to prove that in addition to number 1 she was not chosen solely because she was pregnant. In the private sector hiring decisions and candidate pools are kept confidential. In order to be able to fully prove this she would have to be going for a job in the public sector where they have "sunshine" laws. Also, it is illegal to ask a woman if she is/plans to become pregnant in an interview, however if she opens the door it is not illegal to discuss it. Again all else being equal and if you have to make a decision between 2 equally qualified candidates there has to be a deciding factor somewhere - this just may be it. It's not nice to say, and it's not easy to hear, but it is the way the real world works.

[WSUcheer99]

Originally posted by Dionysus
I was talking about that sweet and colorful post of yours.

I had someone IM me and complain....I thought you were jumping on their bandwagon! Sorry! But no offense, preggo throws me off when it comes to stuff like this. Didn't want to sound rude, after I posted I re-read it and decided I sound attacking!

[KSUViolet06]

Originally posted by Little E
That is judgemental. How can you know what she is or is not capeable of in regards to her time? I'm not saying it isn't hard, but the realworld isn't any easier.

I said, "could very well", meaning yes there may be exceptions, but in general most new moms do have high demands on their time. Logically, she might not be able to make EVERY single event, and it's the chapter's call as to whether or not a woman with a potentially minimal level of involvement should be selected as a new member.

It all comes down to the level of member participation a chapter wants. And what some are failing to realize is, if the woman plans on keeping her baby, the PREGNANCY turns into a CHILD which is a BIG DEAL. If you want girls to attend a full weeks worth of I Week festivities ending with a sleepover in the house the night before initiation and a party immediately following, it may not be feasible to expect a woman with a child to be at all these things.