Down Low Brothas

[ShakespareDST]

Or you can go to www.usatoday.com and conduct a search on DL Brothers.

I am not stating my opinion on anything just merely paraphrasing the article and I do encourage you to read it for yourselves.
http://navigatio n.helper.realnames.com/framer/1/112/default.asp?realname=USA+TODAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fww w%2Eusatoday%2Ecom&frameid=1&providerid=112&uid=30 002676


[/B]

[candygirl]

1st Corinthians 6:9
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

My bible translates effeminate as perverts and homosexuals.

Romans 1:26,27
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural uses into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

My pastor uses the last verse but I don't fully understand it myself.

[MaMaBuddha]

candygirl, i am familiar with the passages you brought up and i was prepare. i can't tell you how many times those passages were quoted to me.

since my answers to them would be too long check out the links below.

happy to be a homo

learn the facts about bible and the homos

these are the same passages used over and over again

i even threw in some extra passages that seem to condemn homosexuality, but in the bible it's all about interpetation.



[This message has been edited by MaMaBuddha (edited July 11, 2001).]

[candygirl]

Okay MaMa, I read the information on the sites you listed. I do agree that interpretation plays an important role in how we use the bible.

We can go on and on with this and we'll still have our own opinions.

Thanks for enlightening me from the perspective of someone who is gay.

[DELTABRAT]

Hello Sorors:

I read this article about two months ago and was pretty disturbed although I understand the reasons why some choose to hide their sexuality.

Let's also not forget that another issue is the identification of being "gay"

I can't speak for women but because I work with a lot of gay men, the problem also lies in the fact that if a man does not identify himself as gay, then he may not feel compelled to inform others of his sexuality.

This pertains men who are "situationally" gay (i.e. the brothah incarcerated who needed affection while he was locked up), but also men who think they aren't gay because they are not the receptive partner
(in lieu of Soror Director's post, I will not say what I WAS going to.)

Although some detest the term "homothugs" it is simply used to describe these brothahs who are "caught" in a space where they identify with the hip-hop culture (very mysoginistic, etc.) but are indeed sleeping with men.

They definitely don't identify as being LGBTG or GLBT (LGBT) if they don't identify with being simply "gay."

It's deep and yes it is one of the MAIN contributing factors to the high rates of HIV/AIDS amongst the heterosexual African-American female population. Not that there aren't those that contracted the disease from heterosexual partners who cheated in another heterosexual relationship, but those incidents aren't nearly as numerous and the others.

Anyways,

Just my $19.13.

Peace.

[BrandNubian]

First up, I want to say thanks to MamaBuddha. I love you girl and big ups to you for representing. I don't think I could have said it any better than this:

"the Vibe article was poorly written and only present a very small piece of the the gay world.

Basically beware of who you sleep with, period. you need to know the 411 on any person that you let enter your bed."

I will say that, according to the Centers for Disease Control, men who have sex with men do make up a significant portion of HIV/AIDS cases. But, also according to the CDC, the biggest risk to women and women of color is heterosexual sex, especially heterosexual sex that involves sex with with infected drug users.

But beyond all that, beyond all the advice that folks should beware of these "homothugs," I do have to wonder about the real solution to the real problems. Of course, individuals are responsible for their own behavior. I am not an advocate of excusing personal responsibility in favor of blaming systemic factors. But systemic factors, beliefs and institutions do play a large part in this "homothug" phenomenon.

Perhaps these brothas wouldn't feel the need to be on the down low if African-American culture as a whole (and society at large) was more accepting, validing and affirming of something other than 100% heterosexuality. Perhaps if homosexuals weren't ostracized and oppressed on the daily, they wouldn't feel the need to lie about and repress who they really are.

Until we start opening up the communication about sex and sexuality, and begin to acknowledge and affirm the people who may not have the same sexual orientation as "the norm," the phenomenom of down low brothas will be around, as it no doubt has always been around.

I, too, was disturbed by the Vibe article; first, because of the one-sidedness of it and poor quality and second, because it indicates complex problems within a culture that need to be addressed.

I apologize for the length, but that's my $19.25.

[thesweetestone]

CAN YOU REALLY BE A THUG IF YOU ARE TAKING IT UP THE BACK?

[112Soul]

Originally posted by thesweetestone:
CAN YOU REALLY BE A THUG IF YOU ARE TAKING IT UP THE BACK?

That depends on your defenition of a thug. If you are going by images (although you can't really tell what is behind the image) then no, one could assume that you could not be a "gay thug." However, a thugh is a thug is a thug, and sexuality can't define that.

112

[BrandNubian]

Originally posted by ChaosDST:
I do not think the issue of the homothug has anything to do with whether or not the African American community is accepting of homosexuality. If someone chooses to hide their sexuality, that's their business. Do not play the heterosexual during the day...and go out to gay male bars at night. That is as, or even more, deceptive as a man who messes around with other women. NO ONE should lead a double-life...and homosexuals are no different. Whether they are forced into secrecy or not, that is something they will have to deal with. You can not force others to accept, or have to deal with, your lifestyle.

You're right: NO ONE should lead a double-life. And I suppose if we lived in a perfect world, nobody would. But we don't.

As for the homothug issue, I think that the African-American community's attitudes towards homosexuality have a lot to do with the fact that so many African-American gay men, lesbians and bisexuals are reluctant to reveal their identities. If you knew that you would be discriminated against, ostracized and oppressed by your own people, I think that perhaps some people would think twice about being open about who they are.

It would be nice if everyone had the luxury of being open about themselves, but everyone doesn't. And frankly, (going back to negative attitudes about homosexuality) when a GLBT person comes out, they do have to worry about their safety, or sometimes their lives.

Like I said, I think people should take responsibility for their personal actions. For instance, nobody makes anybody engage in sex without protection. That's a choice they make.

But our society's and community's part in this is not lost on me at all.

And no you can't force anyone to like or accept you or the things you do or the decisions you make. However, there is the certain issue of basic human respect. And, honestly, a lot of gays and lesbians don't get that basic human respect from people in their own communities. And that's just real.

Just my .25 cents.

[ChaosDST]

I do not think the issue of the homothug has anything to do with whether or not the African American community is accepting of homosexuality. If someone chooses to hide their sexuality, that's their business. Do not play the heterosexual during the day...and go out to gay male bars at night. That is as, or even more, deceptive as a man who messes around with other women. NO ONE should lead a double-life...and homosexuals are no different. Whether they are forced into secrecy or not, that is something they will have to deal with. You can not force others to accept, or have to deal with, your lifestyle.

[delph998]

I have a friend who's God fearing,beautiful, intelligent, goal-oriented; everything a man would want in a woman. She had been in a relationship with the same guy for two + years. Everything was going great, until she decided that she needed to come home from college and finish school. Due to the distance, she and her boyfriend broke up. About a month after the break up, she received a phone call from one of her friends saying that she saw my friend's ex-boyfriend in a gay club dancing intimately with another guy. At first, she didn't know how to handle the news...but finally she decided to call and ask him. With hardly any persistance, he admitted that he was gay the entire time of their relationship. When she told me the story, I asked her were the signs there. She said that he never persuaded her to have sexual relations with him, and his family was overly excited to meet her. Yet, she took that as a sign that he had been a player and they were happy that he settled down. Not once did she think he was gay. As a result of this, she's very scared to get into a relationship any time soon.

This is just one of many cases where men have been in relationships with women but were wearing "beards" to hide their true sexuality. There are many, many rappers who look and act thuggish, but are gay. There are TOO MANY gospel artists who try to save souls through their music, but are living this secret lifestyle. There are many women who have contracted HIV/AIDS and other STDs due to men living like this. How do we, as women discern if a man is wearing a "beard" or not? More importantly, why are we living in a society that's so sick that men and women would live this type of lifestyle without telling their significant others?

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by ChaosDST
I do not think the issue of the homothug has anything to do with whether or not the African American community is accepting of homosexuality. If someone chooses to hide their sexuality, that's their business. Do not play the heterosexual during the day...and go out to gay male bars at night. That is as, or even more, deceptive as a man who messes around with other women. NO ONE should lead a double-life...and homosexuals are no different. Whether they are forced into secrecy or not, that is something they will have to deal with. You can not force others to accept, or have to deal with, your lifestyle.

I concur...

This might ruffle some feathers, but I am one of those people who believe that homosexuality is about SEX and nothing more. It is a choice.

The line betwen heterosexuality and homosexuality is not crossed UNTIL the act is realized, or becomes physical. I have found females to be physically attractive, but I have never been ATTRACTED to them. I LOVE all of my friends dearly. And I can admit that some of the females are quite attractive. However, this is not homosexual behavior UNLESS anything that deals with a physical consumation of said relationships occur, then it crosses the line.

As far as the homothug goes, this is not new. I think that it boils down to homosexuals needing to play into society's "gender roles." Masculine, feminine.

It is all about labels. "Homosexuality" itself is a label. I am not too big a fan of those, because I think that labels are nothing more than tools of classification anyway.

Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time, and it was not nearly as shunned in previous eras as it is today (in America, anyway). In fact, in Ancient Rome and the Elizabethan Era in England, it was pretty passe. So I agree to an extent with BrandNubian when she said that part of it is America's (or the black community's) oppression. That is justification for some, I am sure. But I am more inclined to say that it is simply due to societal definitions of gender roles.

[candygirl]

Everytime homosexuality becomes the topic of discussion amongst my friends, this post pops up. My roommate and I are grappling with the fact that homosexuality is real among the African American men on our campus. We don't know who's gay, who's bi, who has tendencies, or who's curious. Although the situation has been discussed to no end, we still haven't come up with anything that would determine "in our eyes" homosexuality. In this day and age you just can't look at the overly feminine men and say they're the gay ones. We have to scope out the ones who "look" heterosexual and wonder about them as well. My friend said that she thinks guys who date and have sex with too many women are gay and they're hiding it through this sort of activity. I not going to say that I totally agree but I have my suspicions. We have to go into our relationships asking men "What are your goals in life, are you married, do you have any kids, and are you gay,bi,curious,or struggling with your sexual identity." Since homesexuality is so hard to discern women need to make sure they're doing whats right for they're own health and safety. Use condoms, get annual or biannual health examinations, and make sure you get and HIV/AIDS test every six months.

As far as sharing your sexual perference/lifestyle with you're significant other, well that's a whole nother(yeah I meant to say nother) can of worms. They're many reasons why these men and women don't tell their significant others. For one, some of the "Homothug" men don't believe they're gay; as was discussed in previous post. Some men and women are struggling with they're sexuality. If they don't quite understand what's going on why should they tell someone else. Some are afraid of judgement and others just don't care enough to share this valuable information with you.

Since this issue has resurfaced with my friends we are really shooken up at the prospect that past boyfriends or even current significant others may be gay. Is a he gay if he propositioned me for anal sex(which I think is disgusting), is he gay because he crosses his legs like a woman would, is he gay becuase he cried at that movie, is he gay because he's a little too homophobic. This issue really has us trippn'

[DELTAQTE]

I'm trippin cause I remember when I FIRST posted this thread and how everybody was uncomfortable with talking about it. Now that it's out in the media(It was just on Ed Gordon) ladies are starting to wake up about this issue.

I've heard about gay rappers and singers, but they don't consider themselves gay or bisexual. So why would they tell you?(the lady?). So ladies just be careful, cause there are signs that you can look out for to see if he might be "suspect"


QTE

[delph998]

What are the signs though? I mean, I don't know what to look for. Sadly enough, my new method of handling things is if I have to even question someone's sexuality, I won't even go out on a date with them. There is a guy that has been trying to holla at me for the longest, but he is so flamboyant. We've also talked about homosexuality and he ended up telling me something that really blew me!! We're just friends now. I still talk to him on the phone and might go to dinner with him every now and then, but I have my suspicion.