McCain condemns anti-Kerry ads, calls on White House to follow suit

[Kevin]

Did anyone notice that Dole came out on the side of the Swiftboat vets saying how he couldn't imagine someone receiving the purple heart for something that didn't even land them in a hospital?

Keep in mind, Dole only won ONE purple heart for being shot out of the sky and almost killed.

I think the swiftboat vets message is something that people should at least consider.

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Did anyone notice that Dole came out on the side of the Swiftboat vets saying how he couldn't imagine someone receiving the purple heart for something that didn't even land them in a hospital?

Keep in mind, Dole only won ONE purple heart for being shot out of the sky and almost killed.

I think the swiftboat vets message is something that people should at least consider.

I noticed that as well - it was significant in my mind only because I hadn't really heard anything from Dole regarding the election until this point.

He lost function of his right hand after that incident, correct?

[Rudey]

I never insulted all Canadians. But keep on dreaming. It must be difficult for you living in the shadow of America though. You have repeatedly come on here posting anti-American things, shown you know very little and with this election you have no say because YOU ARE NOT VOTING.

-Rudey

Originally posted by RACooper
Huh... well yes I'm anti-Bush, but shockingly that doesn't make me anti-American, nor does it make anyone who feels that the Bush administration is one of the worst things to happen to the US. You'll note that I have never stooped to your level and insulted all Americans (as you have Canadians), my insults and critizism has been directed against individuals and/or groups that I disagree with or oppose.

Now an intelligent person might realise that the actions of these Swiftboat Veterans are incredibly damaging to the moral credibility of the GOP campaign (at least abroad), as are some of the other ethical interesting actions taken on the campaign trail - case in point the whole screened and prepared audiences that Bush has in his question periods. The reason that the CBC did some investigation into the ad controversy was as a media analysis of an attack ad's reception in the voting public, and how these ads are made (basically were the money comes from). They showed and discussed ads from both sides, and delved into the politics behind the ads... it's just the Swiftboat ad was particularly singled out for it's lies (not bending of truth) and it's finacial ties to the Bush campaign, and the history of the makers of the ad - same guys who attacked McCain's service when he opposed Bush. The conection to the CBC and the ads was a comparison to the US public reaction to the Swiftboat ad, and the Canadian reaction to the ad - and how it compared to the now infamous (in Canada) attack ad against Chretien, which ended up costing the Conservatives the election and nearly their existance.

[damasa]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Did anyone notice that Dole came out on the side of the Swiftboat vets saying how he couldn't imagine someone receiving the purple heart for something that didn't even land them in a hospital?

Keep in mind, Dole only won ONE purple heart for being shot out of the sky and almost killed.

I think the swiftboat vets message is something that people should at least consider.

I'll consider their message but it's hard to believe coming from a group of men in which many did not directly serve with Kerry. Some are probably bitter of what Kerry said over thirty years ago regarding atrocities and such in Vietnam. Did these things happen? I'm sure some did as according to accounts told by other Vietnam vet throughout the years. Does Kerry actually know? Did he actually witness these things? Maybe, maybe not? Did the swiftboat vets actually witness these things? Maybe, maybe not? But I'll take the message from those that actually served with Kerry a little more serious.

Do the swiftboat vets have a right to be upset about what Kerry said after he returned home? Hell yes they do as well they should be. I think that's the biggest issue here (as Rudey has stated many times).

I wish we'd get off the purple heart debate already because it really cheapens it. Dole was shot down in a plane and almost killed and only received "ONE" purple heart. My grandfather was wounded twice in one encounter and only received "ONE" purple heart in that instant. He was wounded in two other separate encounters and received a purple heart for each. This was always a hot topic with my grandfather because there was a lot of controversy surrounding purple hearts in this era. Many thought that they were "given out like candy."

He once told me that you can never place any amount of medals on the sacrifice of a solider. You can't give a solider five purple hearts for almost being killed. You can't give a solider three purple hearts for losing a leg. You can't give a soldier two purple hearts for losing an arm. But you can give a solider one purple heart for being wounded in battle, demonstrating the risk the solider takes, a risk that could ultimately result in death. He told me you can never compare a material object to the wound of a soldier because the purple heart demonstrates the sacrifice of the soldier (no matter to what degree) during a time in which a solider can lose everything.

That's a debate I hold dear to me because my grandfather always did...

[Rudey]

"All of them," the president said, when asked whether he specifically meant that the veteran's group's ad against Mr. Kerry should be stopped. "That means that ad, every other ad. Absolutely. I don't think we ought to have 527's. I can't be more plain about it, and I wish — I hope my opponent joins me in saying — condemning these activities of the 527's. It's — I think they're bad for the system."

-Rudey

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by Rudey
There's not enough news in Canada to cover on the CBC? I guess it's a little strange that another country does reporting on an advertisement for another country's elections.

-Rudey

Most international news organizations have picked up this topic. A quick glance at the first few pages of a google news search on "kerry" will confirm this.

Originally posted by Rudey
I never insulted all Canadians. But keep on dreaming. It must be difficult for you living in the shadow of America though. You have repeatedly come on here posting anti-American things, shown you know very little and with this election you have no say because YOU ARE NOT VOTING.

-Rudey

I've never heard you insult all Canadians, but you definately have said some very anti-Canadian things. I seem to recall something about you saying you were going to bang the "only" two hot women in Canada for reading week. Or something. I tend to ignore it when I can.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by kappaloo
Most international news organizations have picked up this topic. A quick glance at the first few pages of a google news search on "kerry" will confirm this.



I've never heard you insult all Canadians, but you definately have said some very anti-Canadian things. I seem to recall something about you saying you were going to bang the "only" two hot women in Canada for reading week. Or something. I tend to ignore it when I can.

I don't remember saying that. If I did I'm sure it was kinda funny. I think though that imthechamp said something about how he loved Canada for giving him 2 (not 1) chicks that he had sex with. I have Canadian family members and they are quite smart - developed a super-mall for your country in fact.

I love you Canadians but you need to love yourselves first.

-Rudey

[AnchorAlum]

So, let's see where we are.

Perhaps this swiftboat issue will die down since the President agrees with Kerry that the 527's are a bad thing.

I mean, it would seem that the vets got more bang for their little bucks than Soros has gotten for his 20 million or so, so this allows them to move on - oh, pardon the pun - and get to the issues.

I will be relieved to hear about the Senator's 20 year record in the Senate, and I'm just sure all of you will as well. I'm just sure he can't wait to brag on his accomplishments...

(Those of you who are not from "abroad", that is. Laughing out loud at the mere thought of Canada being "abroad".)

[Rudey]

Funny that people don't understand where the money came from for Moveon.

The man who gave much of the funding to Moveon.org is George Soros.

Soros was a large scale trader - operating one of the most powerful hedge funds at one point.

What Soros is know for, ahem notorious for, is destroying capital markets.

Soros would go into a market he knew a currency was aritificially valued at and buy and sell the currency. He would succeed because he had the ability to move that much capital at any given point.

So what happened? The most famous incident is Black Wednesday. Soros led a major assault on the British pound and the bank kept putting in more and more currency until finally it was all gone - in one day Soros ripped out 1.1 billion out of the system; the pound was removed from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism. This money came from somewhere. Someone had to hurt to give it up. The thing is that there was an exploitable weakness in the system and he has every right to profit, but that right came at a price since this is a zero sum game. Soros went around the world doing this to many currency markets. He even tries to do it to the US in the last couple years but was prevented through newer regulations.

Back to Soros' Quantum Fund. It works out of Curacao and is unregulated really. His Quantum Fund is considered one of the biggest, if not the biggest, havens for laundering of Latin American drug money.

-Rudey
--Soros could buy and sell the Cheney, Bush, and Kerry families 200 times over.

[AnchorAlum]

Right on Rudey. And Soros has pledged whatever it takes to defeat Bush, whom he hates.

Why? Because he hates religion, and he has a hate on for Bush, who is religious. Incredible? Yes.

Even more than incredible - this is truly a frightening man. This man could be swaying markets even as we write, and doing lasting harm to our country, no matter who each of us supports in November. We don't count, you see. We are pawns in Soro's game.

[labeachgrl]

Originally posted by Rudey
"All of them," the president said, when asked whether he specifically meant that the veteran's group's ad against Mr. Kerry should be stopped. "That means that ad, every other ad. Absolutely. I don't think we ought to have 527's. I can't be more plain about it, and I wish — I hope my opponent joins me in saying — condemning these activities of the 527's. It's — I think they're bad for the system."

As long as we're quoting Bush, here's what Bush said when he signed McCain-Feingold :

"However, the bill does have flaws. Certain provisions present serious constitutional concerns. In particular, H.R. 2356 goes farther than I originally proposed by preventing all individuals, not just unions and corporations, from making donations to political parties in connection with Federal elections.

I believe individual freedom to participate in elections should be expanded, not diminished; and when individual freedoms are restricted, questions arise under the First Amendment.

I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising, which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import in the months closest to an election. I expect that the courts will resolve these legitimate legal questions as appropriate under the law.




No matter what your general belief about campaign finance laws, Bush has apparently adopted the extreme position which would deny any "outside group" the right to make any political ads, in contrast to his previous positions on this subject.

How can you deny the right for the American Federation of Teachers to have a platform to defend/oppose bills that affect the classroom or the United Auto Workers to voice concerns about the outsourcing of their jobs?? You can't, without violating the First Amendment.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by labeachgrl
As long as we're quoting Bush, here's what Bush said when he signed McCain-Feingold :

"However, the bill does have flaws. Certain provisions present serious constitutional concerns. In particular, H.R. 2356 goes farther than I originally proposed by preventing all individuals, not just unions and corporations, from making donations to political parties in connection with Federal elections.

I believe individual freedom to participate in elections should be expanded, not diminished; and when individual freedoms are restricted, questions arise under the First Amendment.

I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising, which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import in the months closest to an election. I expect that the courts will resolve these legitimate legal questions as appropriate under the law.




No matter what your general belief about campaign finance laws, Bush has apparently adopted the extreme position which would deny any "outside group" the right to make any political ads, in contrast to his previous positions on this subject.

How can you deny the right for the American Federation of Teachers to have a platform to defend/oppose bills that affect the classroom or the United Auto Workers to voice concerns about the outsourcing of their jobs?? You can't, without violating the First Amendment.

A world without these lobbies influencing us...who could imagine that students might get better educations and we would have cheaper, safer and better cars and wouldn't be so oil dependent.

-Rudey

[Optimist Prime]

I'm Living a Lie....TIMMMAAYYYYYYY

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Did anyone notice that Dole came out on the side of the Swiftboat vets saying how he couldn't imagine someone receiving the purple heart for something that didn't even land them in a hospital?

Keep in mind, Dole only won ONE purple heart for being shot out of the sky and almost killed.

You can receive a Purple Heart for anything from a scratch on the arm to a fatal injury. That's the way it is. You get one per occurance. There isn't a chart that says if you lose a finger, you get one, and arm is good for two, a leg three and four if you get killed. If you get shot three times on Wednesday, you get one Purple Heart. If you get shot again on Saturday, you probably get another one. I knew guys in Vietnam who would hold their hands up in the air during incoming fire in hopes of losing a finger and getting sent home.

You also don't nominate yourself for a Silver Star or Bronze Star. You are nominated by others who were onsite and tell a superior officer of your actions, who then investigates the claim, writes up a recommendation and passes it up the chain of command. There, it is investigated again and a decision is made whether to award or not to award -- and whether the suggested award is too high or too low.

The Navy doesn't just give decorations away.

The heat of combat is confusing. Like an auto accident, if there are ten eye-witnesses, you will likely get ten slightly different stories. The vast majority of the people who were on the scene support Kerry. The vast majority of those who are tying to discredit him weren't there. Do the math.

Personaly, whether Kerry is a good candidate, will make a good President, has a great Senate record or not, I think questioning his service record and his decorations are disappointing. What may be worse, in this case, it's political.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
You can receive a Purple Heart for anything from a scratch on the arm to a fatal injury. That's the way it is. You get one per occurance. There isn't a chart that says if you lose a finger, you get one, and arm is good for two, a leg three and four if you get killed. If you get shot three times on Wednesday, you get one Purple Heart. If you get shot again on Saturday, you probably get another one. I knew guys in Vietnam who would hold their hands up in the air during incoming fire in hopes of losing a finger and getting sent home.

You also don't nominate yourself for a Silver Star or Bronze Star. You are nominated by others who were onsite and tell a superior officer of your actions, who then investigates the claim, writes up a recommendation and passes it up the chain of command. There, it is investigated again and a decision is made whether to award or not to award -- and whether the suggested award is too high or too low.

The Navy doesn't just give decorations away.

The heat of combat is confusing. Like an auto accident, if there are ten eye-witnesses, you will likely get ten slightly different stories. The vast majority of the people who were on the scene support Kerry. The vast majority of those who are tying to discredit him weren't there. Do the math.

Personaly, whether Kerry is a good candidate, will make a good President, has a great Senate record or not, I think questioning his service record and his decorations are disappointing. What may be worse, in this case, it's political.

His senate record? Didn't he miss some votes as a senator recently or something like that?

-Rudey