What defines a Man of God?

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic
What I am posting here is very relavent as to what makes a man of God. Teliing the truth in season and out of season. No they do not have a relationship with God. For muslims it is obvious becasue Allah and Jehovah are different. Jehovah is real. Jews believe in Jehovah, but reject His Son. Read II John Many but not all!

All men must come to the Father through Christ. There is no other way. John 14:6 Look at all other religions and Christianity. Only one believes in a bodily resurrected Savior I Corinthians 15, who gave the Ultimate sacrifice for others Four Gospels and Romans 5, who proved His identity( John 2, the resurrection itself), promises to return (Acts 1), establish His kingdom (Gospels, Revelation), etc.

Now what other religion makes such claims? NONE!!! Because they cannot. And let me say that anyone who wants to or even dares to deny the Historical Reliability of these statements will search their whole lives seeing that Jesus was just as real as any other person in history.

In all seriousness, this right here pretty much answers ALL questions regarding why us "mad christians" believe as we believe, why Christianity is not inclusive, why XYZ is not the same was Christianity or whatever.

The reason (and scripture although now according to the rules of the thread, its unacceptable) is out there, so what you do with it is up to you. Worldly ideas and theories can not be used to justify The Word. That's like trying to join ABC fraternity using DEF's ritual and manual.

I have to agree with Love_Spell, that as this thread has progressed and scripture is given, all of a sudden new limitations are then added on when you don't get the answer you expect or to your liking.

So in short, if not wavering in your beliefs is considered "bible thumping, corner and trash can preaching" then cool - not everyone will be receptive to the Word. You may not like Bro. Fred's approach, but that does not nulify the truth, as neither does cheap shots and personal attacks.

I will be more than happy to chat (or talk) with anyone who wants more info., but I will not go into it on this threas further because (a) it ain't on topic and (b) I feel like this thread has turned into a tit-for-tat pissing contest of which I will not participate in.

[msn4med1975]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
In all seriousness, this right here pretty much answers ALL questions regarding why us "mad christians" believe as we believe, why Christianity is not inclusive, why XYZ is not the same was Christianity or whatever.

The reason (and scripture although now according to the rules of the thread, its unacceptable) is out there, so what you do with it is up to you. Worldly ideas and theories can not be used to justify The Word. That's like trying to join ABC fraternity using DEF's ritual and manual.

I have to agree with Love_Spell, that as this thread has progressed and scripture is given, all of a sudden new limitations are then added on when you don't get the answer you expect or to your liking.

So in short, if not wavering in your beliefs is considered "bible thumping, corner and trash can preaching" then cool - not everyone will be receptive to the Word. You may not like Bro. Fred's approach, but that does not nulify the truth, as neither does cheap shots and personal attacks.

I will be more than happy to chat (or talk) with anyone who wants more info., but I will not go into it on this threas further because (a) it ain't on topic and (b) I feel like this thread has turned into a tit-for-tat pissing contest of which I will not participate in.

I may be confused here but I didn't see any attacks. Fred doesn't answer a question from time to time and that makes folks reask it. That may seem hostile but if you are trying to get clarification you have to keep asking till you get an answer. Not one you agree with JUST an answer. And not to attack you are anyone else but I thought one of the primary tenets of Christianity was to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Is blatantly condemning someone for not worshiping Christ a cool thing? There are a number of different things we are SUPPOSED to do in order to follow the faith dilligently. I have yet to understand why we let ourselves SLIDE in certain areas but are convinced and steadfast in others. Notice I said WE so I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm guilty of judging myself and it's something I'm working on. I personally don't like gospel rap or Kirk Franklin (most of the time) because it sounds much too close to secular music but folks tell me ALL THE TIME it's just another means to get someone to know the Lord. So if Buddha, Vishnu or Allah gets them in touch with THE LORD let em be. Those people will at least be out trying to better the world.

ETA: I do understand the Christian faith doesn't allow for other Gods. However, and this has always been my issue with the various sects within Christianity, the practices were not passed down in their TRUEST form because the Bible was written by MAN who nearly everyone has said was FALLIABLE. The sects arose because one man disagreed with another man on how something was to be interpreted. So we end up with a new holy text and a new set of practices. We will not ultimately know if any religion was correct and really we shouldn't be worried about who's RIGHT we should be worried about being good people.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
In all seriousness, this right here pretty much answers ALL questions regarding why us "mad christians" believe as we believe, why Christianity is not inclusive, why XYZ is not the same was Christianity or whatever.

The reason (and scripture although now according to the rules of the thread, its unacceptable) is out there, so what you do with it is up to you. Worldly ideas and theories can not be used to justify The Word. That's like trying to join ABC fraternity using DEF's ritual and manual.

I have to agree with Love_Spell, that as this thread has progressed and scripture is given, all of a sudden new limitations are then added on when you don't get the answer you expect or to your liking.

So in short, if not wavering in your beliefs is considered "bible thumping, corner and trash can preaching" then cool - not everyone will be receptive to the Word. You may not like Bro. Fred's approach, but that does not nulify the truth, as neither does cheap shots and personal attacks.

I will be more than happy to chat (or talk) with anyone who wants more info., but I will not go into it on this threas further because (a) it ain't on topic and (b) I feel like this thread has turned into a tit-for-tat pissing contest of which I will not participate in.

Actually, both sides of done what you have mentioned. So don't just put it in the "questioners." That in itself is part of the problem.

My point is I respect your beliefs. I may not agree with all of them but I sure am not going to judge you and say you are condemned because of them. So why can't you (not you personally) accept me and my beliefs the same way? Why must I be labeled as unGodly?

A lot of you are confused about my stance on Scripture.

I want you to post the whole verse, not just the reference.

In short

Instead of saying Matthew 7.1

I would prefer

Matthew 7.1 which reads, "Judge not, that ye be not judged".

Newcomers, to the thread please re-read and note that Love_Spell, bwb, and I are the ONLY people to quote the FULL verse in a response. EVERYONE else has simply referenced scripture.

No one is changing rules. I am asking that all provide full and complete documentation to support their statements in regards to scripture.

Can You Hear Me Now?

[Honeykiss1974]

msn4med1975....

Maybe we both have different interpretations as to what is or isn't a personal attack and that is cool. But to address the rest of your post, I do agree with you that we should not let one thing slide (like its ok) and condemn another - with this whole topic being a good example. As a bible-believing Christian, I have to respond to this topic (how to have a relationship with the Father) with the same truth, conviction, and basis as I would if this convo was about murder, adultery, or gay marriage.

Ladygreek....

We too apparently have a difference in interpretation. Explaining to someone what your religious convictions are is something TOTALLY different from responding with silly remarks. That is what I was speaking of in my original post. I respect the fact that you believe whatever it is you believe. However that does not mean that it somehow conforms with my beliefs and that I should sugar coat what it says about it (especially when asked).

For example, if you told me "my religions says people with the name Honeykiss1974 are rabbits" and if that is EXACTLY what it says, then that's not a personal attack. You are simply stating what it says. However, if I respond by calling you a kook, that is a one and in my opinion, its gone from discussion to schoolyard games.

As I have said earlier, I will answer any questions that you or anyone may have, but I will not respond to posts with snide remarks and backhanded comments.

Not in this thread nor in any other in GC.

What Fred is saying has been said on here by various people in many thread before. Is the issue with the reason/belief (because it is what it is) or the messenger, knowing his stance on GLOs?

Now the REAL question...what the heck are we doing up so late?

OK.

That's three non-participating participants.

Don't post around me.

Just don't post.

I still have unanswered questions for those who are following this thread.

1) Which of the following NON CHRISTIAN men was NOT a man of God? Moses, Noah, David, Solomon, Jacob or Adam?

2) Can you name an example of a Godly Man in today's society?

3) Who said that I was a Christian?

Can ANYONE respond to those?

My issue with Fred is the fact that he is:

1) not accurate in his explanations. He is simply providing some untrue information, most blaring in my mind is Jesus founding Christianity. That is simply not true.

2) dismissive of other viewpoints before even seeking clarification. How would you like for your Doctor to diagnose you without even asking you your symptom? Would he even be able to write you an effective prescription? A TRUE Spiritual Counselor would not act in this manner. His unwavering stance castrates the effectiveness his words could have on me and many, many others (especially the ones who've PM'ed me because of this thread) who want to understand, as I do. I've asked y'all to post the full scripture, He won't. Those coming from a background that is not Christian will have a hard time supporting or endorsing statements that they themselves can't substantiate.

3) the first to make subtle sly sideways comments in this thread. Or have some of y'all missed those? He's made several statements to bait me into veering off course. He roped Tom in. YES, the things I say may ruffle feathers, check the signature. At least I gave everyone fair warning. It's been mentioned that someone may have a "personal relationship with a false god" and I've never mentioned which God I worship. It's also been mentioned that someone shares viewpoints with the Devil. Well don't we all, in his effort to overthrow the Kingdom of God he knows the Word better than any Man of God would. That's how he can cause believers to veer off track.

4) claiming Christ but not acting Christ like. It seems that HIS mission has replaced God's mission for him. This may be in part to my views on how he addressed people and issues in other threads. For example:

In this thread he mentions that he's acquired a few rituals. Why would a fully annointed Man of God need to pilfer through the private and closely guarded documents of Greek Letter Organizations in order to enlighten others? I spoke on that here

He seems to avoid answering my questions in almost every thread even though I answer his.

He's attacked others who responded to the original topic of a thread, thereby veering it off course.

He doesn't explain anything here he always want you to go some where else to read his views. Why can't he state his point here. I don't want to have to search the web to find supporting documentation for someone else's opinion.

I, sincerely, hope that the others of you, who have been reading in silence, will step in and respond TO THE SUBJECT at hand. Which is what is your definition of a Man of God. The purpose of a conversation is to come to an understanding and not an agreement.

[NewBee]

Originally posted by laidbackfella

1) Which of the following NON CHRISTIAN men was NOT a man of God? Moses, Noah, David, Solomon, Jacob or Adam?They all were men of GOD. You have to understand though, that as Christians, we believe that Jesus is the Son of GOD and that he was there in the beginning. So all of the Israelites back in the day who were godly would be Christian if HE came in there day and they believed. True belief in the Father should equal to belief in the Son. "Christian" is just a label. There are Messianic Jews, Jews for Jesus, and other groups who don't claim to be Christian but believe in the same GOD we do. Besides you say Moses was a Non-Christian but he seems pretty cool with Jesus in Matthew 17:3.-" Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared and began talking with Jesus."

2) Can you name an example of a Godly Man in today's society? That's hard because only God knows the hearts of men. But if someone says they are a Men of God, I am not gonna say they aren't. But I will do a fruit inspection.

3) Who said that I was a Christian? I dunno, take it as compliment!

Can ANYONE respond to those? Happy now! smile...

[/B]

[NewBee]

To answer ladygreek's questions, God is alll-powerful, he can have a relationship with whomever he likes to. We cannot put limits on GOD. As a bible believiing Christian, I believe Jesus is the Way and the only way to spend eternity with Him is to believe in Him and have Him abide in me. Relationships can be short-termed, can be abusive, can be a host of negative things. If a muslim or a jew or another non-Christian religion had a "relationship" with God, I would wonder what type of relationship it was, and also is it with the same GOD that I have my relationship with. I know that souds harsh but we all don't believe in the same thing or else there would just be different sects of Christianity...

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by NewBee
To answer ladygreek's questions, God is alll-powerful, he can have a relationship with whomever he likes to. We cannot put limits on GOD.

Now that right there is what I'm talking about.

[NewBee]

Icon, those verses put limitations on who will enter the kingdom, not who GOD has a relationship with. I don't think there is another way into the kingdom then through Jesus, but GOD can do what he wants including having a relationship with whomever he pleases, whether its good or bad. Now fellowship is a different story...

[AXEAM]

[bwb]

Originally posted by stardusttwin

Its important to read the Bible as both a spiritual document (written with divine intervention) & as a historical one (taken into account the times it was written and what was culturally acceptable at the time). But as a practicing Christian its important to note that things were not randomly changed just for the heck of it.

I understand where you are coming from with this statement. First, let me point out a few things so that my point of view can be better understood. I am saved, do believe that Jesus is the messiah, and have been in the church for over twenty years. Many of the things that you said about the new covenant are things that I have also been taught and have believed. I'm not here to bash God or try to turn anyone away. Originally I came here because I wanted to hear people's reasons why being a member of Omega Psi Phi in particular was against God's will. Since I am not a member I do not know if there is any secret pledge or vow that puts Omega higher than God. That question and discussion, however, is for a different thread. I entered into this thread for a few reasons. As much as I appreciate anyone who in truly on fire for God I don't think that attacking or being condencending is the best way to influence anyone's heart. And, I see many Christians here holding onto beliefs that I feel are contrary to the actual word of God. By pointing some of these out hopefully it will encourage all of us to be more open to the actual word and less likely to hold onto "truths" that aren't actually scriptural, and have better fellowship together. LBF was right in wanting people to post scripture to back up points. Anything that seems right but isn't scripture can be dangerously misleading, as can scripture that is taken out of context... remember that the devil used scripture to tempt Jesus.

Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." I don't know what faith everyone here is, but I do know that it is possible that there are things that you and I believe that may be cleverly crafted deception, meant to deceive and help us miss the mark. Remember that the system of Christianity (or any man made system) isn't infallible and isn't the last word. Only God is infallible and in the end he will reveal the truth to all of us.

Originally posted by stardusttwin

On a historical note...the early Christians were considered a sect (or denomination) of the Jews. They still observed the Sabbath and observed the numerous rules as listed in the Old Testament but believed that the Messiah they were waiting for had come. As the "movement" spread, other differences arose and the "sect" was no longer recognized by the Jews. To spread the word the new Christians began to codify the "New Testament" (writings from the apostles, letters from Paul). They believed that the new covenant was made possible because of Christ's death and resurrection. Christians celebrate this by worshiping on the first day of the week (Sunday). Because Christ died our sins were washed away and we don't have to make sacrifices or have someone intercede on our behalf anymore. So as believers of the new covenant we don't observe past holidays as outlined in the Old Testament such as Rosh Hassana (sp?) and Yom Kippor or observe the Sabbath as traditionally done by Jews who are still waiting for the Messiah to come and thus continue to operate on the old covenant, rules and regulations.

Yes, the early believers were a sect of Judiasm. The apostles that Jesus himself taught were a sect of Jusiasm, most likely called the Nazarene sect. You can see this in Acts 24:5. The Apostle Paul is being accused of various things, one of them being a ringleader of the Nazarene sect. "For we have found this man [a] pestilent [fellow], and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes"

Paul answers "But this I confess to you, that after the Way, which they call a sect, so I serve the God of our fathers, believing all things which are according to the law, and which are written in the prophets" in Acts 24:14 (Hebrew Names version taken from www.blueletterbible.org). What law is he referring to? The Torah. Matthew 5:18 Jesus says "For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and eretz [earth] pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished ." The law is the Torah, and although Christ fulfilled a lot of the prophesies, there remain some that will be fulfilled upon his second coming. That would seem to say to me that we can't simply just disregard the Old testament laws. I don't know anywhere where Jesus says to change or disregard the 10 commandments given directly from God. He does make some changes to teachings that some of the other great men of God made. Distinction between God's law and man made laws. There are numerous examples of Paul encouraging people to keep God's Law (the torah) and the feasts after Christ's death and resurrection.... but this is already getting long.

Back to the Sabbath, one of the original 10 commandments. The Jews have kept the sabbath since the beginning of time. The 7th day, the last day of the week. Saturday (fri sundown to sat sundown). Now there are different interpretations of what it means to respect the sabbath and keep it holy. But no one disagrees on when the sabbath is. The question is why should we incorporate into our faith and believe in something that can't be backed up by our own scripture?

A historical note. Since the days of Babylon pagans have worshipped the Sun. Different names have been used, including Baal, and Mithras (or Mith-Ra). Pharoahs and Ceasar worshipped the sun. In 321 CE Roman Emperor Constantine declared Sunday "Sol Invictus Mithras" or the day of the unconquerable Sun Mithras. Under penalty of death people were to cease work on this day, in honor of the Sun God Mithras. This has been passed down throughout western culture (so called 'blue laws'), which is why today government offices stay closed on Sunday. Constantine's historian recorded Constantine as saying "All things whatsoever that were our duty to do on the Sabbath WE have transferred to the Lord's Day." *edit*The Lord he is referring to is the the sun god.*end edit* Constantine wanted nothing to do with the Jews and also wanted to make Christianity easy for Pagans to accept. That is why he forced Christians in his day to adopt the pagan worship days and just assign them new christian names and values. Mithraism was a rival pagan religion. Incidentally, another Holy Mithraic Day was December 25 'dies natalis solis', or the day of the birth of the sun god. "It would be an error to attribute ['the sanctification of Sunday'] to a definite decision of the Apostles. There is no such decision mentioned in the Apostolic documents [that is, the New Testament] ."--Antoine Villien, "A History of the Commandments of the Church," 1915, p. 23.

Some deceptive practices have crept into the dogma and culture of Christians. We shouldn't be so quick to point out eveyone else's errors if we can't look honestly at our own. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God... so we shouldn't be so quick to throw the first stone.

LBF -
1. They were all men of God.

2. This is a tough question for Christians to answer. Christians believe that their God is omnipotent. We are not supposed to try and alter his word to fit our lifestyles, but rather alter our lives to live according to his word. He says "Be careful to do all things that I have said to you; and don't invoke the name of other gods, neither let them be heard out of your mouth" in exodus 23:13. God is so great that we shouldnt even mention any other god. Keeping that in mind, I doubt you would get many Christians willing to name any holy man as a man of God if that man doesn't follow the same god.

3. I don't know... and I don't particularly care what label of faith you subscribe to, if any label at all. I guess I would rather know if you believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

Sorry for this long post.

[ladygreek]

bwb,
Thank you for a well documented answer that was not judgemental nor dogmatic.