Canadian Election - Politics

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
Absolutely NOT. You have to understand - not everyone from the US is a monster raving loony right winger. I'm not as leftie as some of my American friends, but I have to tell you -- living here feels like PARADISE compared to where I came from.

I live near an NDP riding, and trust me, it isn't very nice over there. Olivia is a candidate over there. In any case, I'm an old fashioned gal, likely influenced by my immigrant parents. They're pretty much die-hard (social) Conservatives, and are happy with the merger. I don't think I live in "paradise" other than the fact that I'm close to a good shopping area. My riding isn't as left as Trinity-Spadina, but it's getting close, especially with the new division lines.

[Sistermadly]

I get e-mails from the Conservative party, because someone at Telus had this e-mail address before I did and signed up for a bunch of junk. It makes my inbox feel all...dirty.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
From what I understand -- and forgive me for making sweeping generalizations -- but many new immigrants from South and Southeast Asia are socially and fiscally conservative. MisterMadly says that accounts for the large number of Asians/Indians in the Liberal and Conservative parties in BC.

Yes, that's actually quite true. Olivia Chow running as an NDP is actually kind of unusual for someone who is Chinese. Most Chinese Canadians tend to vote Liberal or Conservative. There is an Asian guy, Something (forgot his first name) Li running as a Tory in a riding in a Toronto suburb.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by Taualumna
I live near an NDP riding, and trust me, it isn't very nice over there. Olivia is a candidate over there. In any case, I'm an old fashioned gal, likely influenced by my immigrant parents. They're pretty much die-hard (social) Conservatives, and are happy with the merger. I don't think I live in "paradise" other than the fact that I'm close to a good shopping area. My riding isn't as left as Trinity-Spadina, but it's getting close, especially with the new division lines.

I'm an immigrant too, Taualumna. Granted I didn't come from Asia, India, or the Caribbean, but I'm still an immigrant.

When I said paradise, I wasn't talking about in terms of financial realities. MisterMadly and I are struggling -- we're still paying the bills from my relocation almost four years ago, and I just finished getting a Master's degree, mainly because I knew that it would be easier for me to find work here if I had a degree from a Canadian university.

Where it feels like paradise to me is in terms of human rights and individual freedoms. In the United States, we talk a brave game about multiculturalism and the American Melting Pot, but it's all just a myth. People are more segregated than ever, even though that segregation isn't legally sanctioned anymore. It doesn't matter if you became a citizen last week or if you are a fifth generation American -- in some parts of the United States, if you're not white, you're not considered a "real" American. I don't get that feeling living here. I don't get the sense that I have to conform to some mythical Canadian "ideal" in order to be considered Canadian; as a matter of fact, I appreciate that there isn't some sort of myth that looms large in the Canadian imagination that by its very nature keeps certain people on the outside.

I love that I can walk through my neighborhood and see people who don't look like me, who don't sound like me, and who may not even think like me, but who all get along peacefully and respect each others' differences. I love that my ultra-religious mother-in-law supports my religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and doesn't feel a need to try to "save my soul from burning in Hell" -- complete STRANGERS would do that where I came from, and it always felt invasive and wrong.

To this new Canadian, this country has given me more opportunity, more freedom, and a greater sense of possibility than I ever thought possible while living in the United States. It might sound like hooey, but I love Canada. I love Canadian openness, and I love Canadian tolerance. I love the multitudinous ways that people show their Canadianness here, and I love that there's no one "right" way to be Canadian. You have a goldmine here, and this country truly is, in my opinion, the moral centre of Western society.

Ya'll have a beautiful thing here -- treasure it always.

[Taualumna]

If you think Canada isn't segregated then you're kind of wrong, Sistermadly. If we were truely mixed, then there wouldn't be neighbourhoods like Richmond, BC, where the population is overwhelmingly Chinese! The neighbourhoods I grew up in (I moved a few times as a kid and a teen) were mostly predominantly Jewish--out of the 20 kids in my kindergarten class, 16 were Jews! Twenty years later, the neighbourhood is still predominantly Jewish) In schools, you wouldn't have little cliques made up of kids from the same ethnic groups and certainly GLOs and other organizations would actually reflect the campus rather than being mostly white.

[Sistermadly]

I know about Richmond, and I know about Surrey, and I know about the British Properties. The thing is - my (white) husband and I (I'm African-American) could move to Richmond, or Surrey, or the British Properties without worrying that people would start moving out because we "posed a threat to their property values." That happened where I'm from. A lot. It even happens in reverse where I came from -- young professional white couples would move into traditionally black neighborhoods and start gentrifying them, and the older black residents would complain that the white folks were making it too expensive for them to live there anymore.

It's hard for you to understand because (I presume) you didn't grow up in the United States, in the deep south, where social realities still keep the races rigidly segregated. I mean -- where else but in the deep south would it make front-page news in a newspaper that a black woman joined an NPC sorority?

I'll end the hijack here and return you guys to your regularly scheduled thread, but I'm willing to continue this discussion via PM if you want.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by kappaloo
But I think I should note that pure integration is not only socially ridiculous, but also statistically ridiculous. We can always expect people to group together in some extent. But to call Canada segregated is far from true.

Yeah, what she said. Now I'm off to watch Six Feet Under.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by kappaloo
To be honest... I always thought this too. My trip to the states really opened my eye though. We went through entire areas where there was little to no racial diversity. It's far more extensive and different from anything I've seen in Canada... Toronto, to bring it to where you are from Taualumna is far more integrated than some areas I visited.

But I think I should note that pure integration is not only socially ridiculous, but also statistically ridiculous. We can always expect people to group together in some extent. But to call Canada segregated is far from true.

Well, if Toronto isn't segregated, then why do immigrants tend to live in neighbourhoods that reflect THEIR cultural heritage rather than in diverse neighbourhoods? Some stay in these neighbourhoods even if they've been here for a while, case in point, the street where I lived when I was in elementary school. It was 70% Jewish. The rest were Chinese or Indian, mostly Catholic.

ETA: I should add that places that are "diverse" really aren't all that "diverse", meaning that they don't "reflect" the entire city. Usually, areas that are historically Anglo are only "diversified" by the handful of East Asians (usually Chinese) and perhaps Middle Easterners that might be there. But that might just be places that I go to.

[Sistermadly]

I think there's a difference between wanting to be around people with whom you share a culture and the kind of segregation we're talking about.

Like I said before, I can't explain it in a way that would make sense to someone who hasn't lived it, but Richmond feels a lot different than, say, Forsyth County, Georgia.

Also, a lot of these neighborhoods are built around religious institutions, no? I know that there is a neighborhood near Emory University in Georgia that to this day is predominately Jewish, mainly because a lot of Jews in that neighborhood observe the sabbath very seriously, and thus, they can't simply get in their cars and drive to the Synagogue. Businesses that cater to these populations spring up. Families live there generation after generation, not because they have to, nor because they don't feel welcome anywhere else, but because they're accustomed to it. It's tradition.

Maybe these neighborhoods sprung up because they weren't allowed to live anywhere else in Canadian cities. In that respect, it is similar to what happened in American cities from coast to coast. But you're overlooking one thing -- you and your family lived in that neighborhood, and I'm guessing you lived there without incident -- please correct me if I'm wrong.

I know that Canada isn't perfect. But it feels a lot closer to perfect than where I came from.

(Stupid Movie Central and their Mountain time zones. I missed Six Feet Under! )

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by kappaloo
Heritage... culture... community. People group for all these things. If you are new to Canada - you will live near people similar to you. Chances are people of your ethnic group are similar in language and culture - you'll feel more welcome there.

This continues generationally - people, believe it or not... like to live near where they grew up. Parents give their house to their kids ... the economic barriers do prevent newer Canadians from breaking into higher class neighbourhoods at times.

However.... the fact that you lived in an area that was 70% Jewish without being Jewish does imply there is integration occuring.

It's not going to be perfect... multiculturalism does lead to culture corners (I looove the Italian corner in Toronto - makes me feel close to my heritage)... but that's not segregation. There is other cultures throughout.... It's not the black|white|latino checkerboard I saw the in the states (sorry to any US citizens reading but at times that's what it felt like!).

Waitaminute....don't larger US cities have cultural enclaves like Toronto? I do remember seeing a Little Italy, as well as historically Jewish neighbourhoods, for example, in New York.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Waitaminute....don't larger US cities have cultural enclaves like Toronto? I do remember seeing a Little Italy, as well as historically Jewish neighbourhoods, for example, in New York.

Ever heard of Bensonhurst, New York? It's a largely Italian neighborhood in the suburbs. A kid -- a Black kid -- named Yusuf Hawkins was walking through Bensonhurst one night with some friends. He was checking out a used car that was for sale. Some idiots were upset that one of their girlfriends had invited some black people to her birthday party. They thought that Hawkins and his friends were on their way to the party. In no time, about 30 folks swarmed Hawkins and his friends, and beat them with baseball bats. Hawkins was killed.

I know that this might be a totally naive question, but has something like that happened in Canada in recent memory? Someone being killed for being black (or brown or yellow) in a white neighborhood?

ETA - I'm not trying to shed a bad light on Italians or residents of New York. I told this story just to relate a point.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
Ever heard of Bensonhurst, New York? It's a largely Italian neighborhood in the suburbs. A kid -- a Black kid -- named Yusuf Hawkins was walking through Bensonhurst one night with some friends. He was checking out a used car that was for sale. Some idiots were upset that one of their girlfriends had invited some black people to her birthday party. They thought that Hawkins and his friends were on their way to the party. In no time, about 30 folks swarmed Hawkins and his friends, and beat them with baseball bats. Hawkins was killed.

I know that this might be a totally naive question, but has something like that happened in Canada in recent memory? Someone being killed for being black (or brown or yellow) in a white neighborhood?

ETA - I'm not trying to shed a bad light on Italians or residents of New York. I told this story just to relate a point.

I've never heard of anyone being shot/stabbed because they were in the "wrong" neighbourhood, other than in areas that are known to be prone to violence. However, people do talk. When a friend of mine and his family first joined a prominant social club in Toronto, they received stares from older members because they're Asian. I'm sure older members "talked" about the Asian family that joined that club. They probably don't talk as much anymore, since there are now more Asian members, but many are still surprised if a minority says that he/she is a member.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by RACooper
I don't know.... the Green candidate from my riding looked like he uses to much green

hahahaha!!!

My riding, Parkdale-High Park, had the most votes for a green candidate in the last election (which was the provincial election).

I actually like the Green Party platform. But they'll start getting bigger and winning some seats eventually and then they'll end up like the NDP, Liberals and Conservatives.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Maybe we're getting a little too "open" and "liberal"? I swear that if Canada leans any more left, I'm going to pack off and move...ok, maybe not...but we do need to streamline our views a bit. Too many left winged people are having a say and people who are more traditional are seen as prejudiced. Isn't that sad?

I dont think Canadians being annoyed with Harper for wanting to be like the U.S is being to "liberal".

Canadians want to have their own identity and we are so overwhelmed by the U.S (and we are...whatever they do does affect us), so by moving away and disagreeing with the U.S and their policies is our way of saying, "Hey, we're are own Country and we'll do it our way". That's not being liberal at all.

I know what you're saying about Canadians becoming too "liberal", but I disagree. I think that's what makes this country great! In some respectsI do think we're to liberal with a few of our social programs and spending, which is why I don't think the either of the three major parties can fix it. The Conservatives spend too little and the Liberals and NDP spend too much.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by Taualumna
If you think Canada isn't segregated then you're kind of wrong, Sistermadly. If we were truely mixed, then there wouldn't be neighbourhoods like Richmond, BC, where the population is overwhelmingly Chinese! The neighbourhoods I grew up in (I moved a few times as a kid and a teen) were mostly predominantly Jewish--out of the 20 kids in my kindergarten class, 16 were Jews! Twenty years later, the neighbourhood is still predominantly Jewish) In schools, you wouldn't have little cliques made up of kids from the same ethnic groups and certainly GLOs and other organizations would actually reflect the campus rather than being mostly white.

I agree and disagree with this.
I do agree that Canadians are somewhat segregated. There are neighbourhoods that are predominantly Chinese, or Jewish, or Italian, etc, etc, etc.
However, when I go to these neighbourhoods I never feel like I don't belong or people are giving me strange looks, or people are rude to me. They are just as friendly and welcoming to me as they are to "their own".