Today's battle in classrooms: Resegregation

[James]

Is all that really necessary? I never had any parent help with homework or stuff, nor any structure involving school and I aced everything.

And I had maxxed standardized test scores.

It wasn't hard at all.

Originally posted by cash78mere
as a teacher who worked in a "failing" school for 2 years, i have to say it is not necessarily the teachers' faults. (it possibly could be in some cases though)

in most failling schools, you have single parents who work who either can't or don't work with their children at home. the children usually have less structure and support from home than the kids in passing schools. so a teacher can teach to the best of her ability, but if the parents either can't, don't or refuse to work with their kids at home, those kids won't succeed as much. that leads to lower standardized test scores which leads directly to failing schools.

i now work in a school where the parents are extremely supportive, as well as wealthy, and the differences in the strides the kids make with encouragement from home is astounding.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by James
Is all that really necessary? I never had any parent help with homework or stuff, nor any structure involving school and I aced everything.

And I had maxxed standardized test scores.

It wasn't hard at all.

But were you encouraged to do well by your folks? What about the kids in your class?

[madmax]

Originally posted by Phasad1913
Our focus needs to be on improving the public schools so that all children truly get an equal shot at a good education AND on improving their neighborhoods (fighting crime, poverty, etc) so that other social issues that impair their ability to learn are eliminated or significantly reduced.

There ya go! I agree with this wholeheartedly.

What crime? I thought everyone in jail was innocent. Who is committing the crimes?


If the people living in those neighborhoods would start taking responsibility for themselves there woudn't be so many problems.

[Phasad1913]

Originally posted by madmax
What crime? I thought everyone in jail was innocent. Who is committing the crimes?

Well, if you think everyone in jail is innocent, then you're stupid.


If the people living in those neighborhoods would start taking responsibility for themselves there woudn't be so many problems.


So, you know each and every individual that lives in a poor neighborhood such as the ones described above to make this generalized statement?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
So, a member of a minority group can't complain about inequality without being whiny? Why can't schools be improved instead of giving up on them with voucher programs?

I guess I, being a member of a minority group who went to one of the best public high schools in the state, a school that currently has alumni enrolled in each Ivy, MIT, Chicago, Stanford, Georgetown and Caltech--can't complain about how my less fortunate cousins don't have the access to the same education. They don't have that access because of the neighborhood I grew up in and the differences in what our fathers did for a living.

Basically, everyone--regardless of socioeconomic status--should have access to a quality public education. It should be our top priority. Instead, due to certain attitudes, we're just as segregated in some ways as before Brown v. Board.

What I meant by whiny (maybe I should have been more specific) is people who complain and then expect other people to solve their problems for them.

It's really just whining anytime anyone complains without intending to do something about it.

I can tell you though, some schools are definitely beyond repair. They need completely new administrations, teaching staffs and in some cases parents and kids in order to allow their students a shot at succeeding. This isn't just in minority communities, but for socioeconomic reasons, it's occuring more often in minority communities. Rural white schools often have similar problems though.

If a school is failing -- and let's face it, just throwing more money at a problem is not going to fix it, the kids deserve to have an opportunity to go elsewhere IMMEDIATELY. Not wait for some government folks to come in there and start programs, etc. to try and make things better within 3 or 4 years. These kids need immediate help when they get forced into these situations. Nothing else is even remotely fair.

Without vouchers, we're basically going to doom kids to socioeconomic segregation (not necessarily racial). The kids whose parents are able to pay their tuition will have a shot at going to college while the kids in intercity public schools will often find themselves with few opportunities besides drugs and violence.

[DZHBrown]

Originally posted by ktsnake
What I meant by whiny (maybe I should have been more specific) is people who complain and then expect other people to solve their problems for them.

It's really just whining anytime anyone complains without intending to do something about it.

I can tell you though, some schools are definitely beyond repair. They need completely new administrations, teaching staffs and in some cases parents and kids in order to allow their students a shot at succeeding. This isn't just in minority communities, but for socioeconomic reasons, it's occuring more often in minority communities. Rural white schools often have similar problems though.

If a school is failing -- and let's face it, just throwing more money at a problem is not going to fix it, the kids deserve to have an opportunity to go elsewhere IMMEDIATELY. Not wait for some government folks to come in there and start programs, etc. to try and make things better within 3 or 4 years. These kids need immediate help when they get forced into these situations. Nothing else is even remotely fair.

Without vouchers, we're basically going to doom kids to socioeconomic segregation (not necessarily racial). The kids whose parents are able to pay their tuition will have a shot at going to college while the kids in intercity public schools will often find themselves with few opportunities besides drugs and violence.

Co-sign. I think that was well-said. A lot of articles I read today on the state of education is the problem of socioeconomic segregation. Children need access to a "non-poor" environment. If a voucher allows them to do that and have immediate access to a better school, then by all means, let it happen. Of course, transportation and equitable access need to be addressed, but it can be done effectively.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Rudey
I don't care if the voucher is for a million dollars, the parents that will care enough about their kid's education will not be the poor and they will not move their children to those other schools. In the meantime, those public schools where there were even a few parents that cared with some good students will become awful schools where no student or parent cares. So all you've done is expand the class divide and create a bunch of criminals that will break into my summer home and try and kill me.

-Rudey

Exactly. If the parents don't give enough of a rat's ass to make sure the kids are showing up to school to begin with, are they really going to care enough to investigate a voucher program?

If there are horrible students in your child's school, ruining the environment for the students who do want to succeed, encourage the school to start cracking down and expel those who need expelled. Now that everyone is entitled to an education, it seems like it's of little or no value to many people.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by Taualumna
I know that some areas allow kids to attend any public school in the city providing that the out of area school has space. The only issue for this is transportation, which of course, can be pricey. There is a program in Toronto called Pathways to Education (http://www.pathewaystoeducation.ca) where kids from a low-income area get bus/subway tickets for attendance (in school..there is no high school in the area where this program is.). It's a great program, and the Junior League here is teaming up with them. Some of the ladies will be mentors to Grade 12 girls this September. Should be great

Do they still give out free TTC tickets.? I know they used to do that at Swansea P.S (my elementary school) which also happens to be the closest public school to Ontario housing. However, the Ontario housing complex is a 5 minute walk to schoo. Yet everyday I see little kids get on the bus to get off 2 stops away.
I know they stopped giving these kids free tickets because it was not necessary as they were in walking distance to the school.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Do they still give out free TTC tickets.? I know they used to do that at Swansea P.S (my elementary school) which also happens to be the closest public school to Ontario housing. However, the Ontario housing complex is a 5 minute walk to schoo. Yet everyday I see little kids get on the bus to get off 2 stops away.
I know they stopped giving these kids free tickets because it was not necessary as they were in walking distance to the school.

The kids in the program are in high school, and get rewarded with TTC tickets for attending school and the Pathways program. Not sure what program the kids you're talking about are in though. Hmmmm...

[AGDee]

School of choice within the public schools does allow kids to go to other public schools, which can get them out of a "poor" area and get them into a better district, although the way things are set up in Michigan, you still have to provide transportation (for which I see no other reasonable options, you can't have school buses travelling all over the metro Detroit area to pick up kids for school, it's too time intensive and costly). However, voucher systems use tax dollars to pay for private schools and I am totally against that. I am absolutely opposed to tax dollars paying for religious schools. And, as I said before, the amount of money allotted in a voucher still leaves a $5000-$10,000 bill for tuition. Few "poor" parents (few middle class parents even!) can afford that. They benefit only the rich who were going to send their kids to private school anyway. There are also charter schools out there, but again, transportation can be an issue. They often have a "theme" to them, a health care career orientation, auto-mechanic orientation, etc. I have no problem with this either. Charter schools and schools of choice are better options than a voucher system.

Dee

[cash78mere]

Originally posted by James
Is all that really necessary? I never had any parent help with homework or stuff, nor any structure involving school and I aced everything.

And I had maxxed standardized test scores.

It wasn't hard at all.

did your parents feed and clothe you well or did you have to worry about your next meal and whether your clothes were gotten from the salvation army?

did your parents make sure you got to bed on time and got up early each morning with a good breakfast? or were you completely on your own at the age of 7?

did your parents check your report card and tests when they came home? or did they not care and turn their backs if you came home with an F or 41 on a test?

if you were having a hard time with anything socially or academically did your parents step in to help? or were you left to fend for yourself against a bully, etc... at the age of 8?

i find it very hard to believe that you were as on your own as you seem to believe you were during your early years. some kids with less than ideal home lives are able to break the cycle completely on their own. it is DEFINITELY possible. but unfortunately, most kids can't raise themselves, especially in non-ideal circumstances. kids need positive role models, and most importantly--support--from others in order to thrive.