The choice: live in the house or depledge

[Tom Earp]

While it sounds so harsh, it is so true!

Not full House, dont pay bills, sell the Chapter house, close Chapter.

Of course a lot depends on the size of the Chapter, the results will still come out the same=Bottom Line! Pay or go. Very simple!

Say a Beautiful House, nicest on Campus, dont meet requirments, house drags finances, house closes, Chapter Gone!

Very Simple. Called Mathematics and Economics!

Join or dont join!

In for The Ounce, In for The Pound!

Be a part of something special or dont be there!

[valkyrie]

Since when did our organizations become more about making money for the house than sisterhood? It seems like so many NPC sororities are getting to the point where it's more about $$$ than anything else, and isn't that losing sight of where our organizations should be?

Where do you draw the line between "no longer being an individual" when you join a sorority and being a pushover wuss? You are always an individual no matter what, and I would hope that people would remember that -- I hope that nobody is so "dedicated" to her organization that she'd lie so she can give blood because someone told her to, or that she'd let someone haze her because someone in her organization said she should.

It's no better to say "You don't want to live in the house -- so fine, quit, you can't be my sister any more" than it is to say "I don't want to live in the house so I quit." Neither one is very sisterly. I think that sometimes we get so caught up in how we think things should be we don't realize that not everybody feels the same way.

[33girl]

I wouldn't say you're no longer an individual, but dammit, there are responsibilities involved in being Greek and it's not a bad word.

We went into terrible debt because we were too nice about letting people out of their obligation to live in the house. They weren't RA's, they didn't live at home, they didn't have loan issues (i.e. a scholarship requiring you live on campus). Maybe if we would have taken a firmer stand we wouldn't have had to deal with all the money issues (which led to other issues) that we did.

And WE had to deal with on-campus/off campus issues. Reading this article, basically what has happened is that they have had to move from one on-campus location to another, and they can't live with the person they picked. Boo fricking hoo!! As I said before...the only way I excuse this is if they weren't told that this "pulling in" can happen. If it was and they signed on without reading the fine print, consider it a lesson learned.

Believe me, I wish there WASN'T such a focus on the house. It would probably enable my sorority to have lots more chapters. But until everyone decides that the size/appearance of your house doesn't matter, it's going to continue to be a factor in Greek life that members have to be prepared to support.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by 33girl

As I said before...the only way I excuse this is if they weren't told that this "pulling in" can happen.

And see, to me it sounds like that's exactly what happened. The girls sounded like they were surprised that they were being forced to live in the house.

I know a lot of sororities will, deliberately or not, misrepresent their live-in policies. During rush a lot of sororities will say that their policy is "You need to live in the house for at least one year unless it's full." In reality, most groups have the policy that you must live in until the house is full. And if these girls were told the wrong thing, I don't think they SHOULD be under any obligation to live in. If you go through rush or even pledging being told that you're supposed to live in the house for a year and you planned on doing it your junior year, it is not fair for the houses to force you to live in. And if living in means you have to break your lease, I think the sorority should reimburse you for that.

Of course we don't really know what they were told so it's all speculation in this instance. But I don't think the girls would be quite so surprised about being "pulled in" if they'd been told from the beginning that it might happen.

[FirstAndFinest]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Since when did our organizations become more about making money for the house than sisterhood? It seems like so many NPC sororities are getting to the point where it's more about $$$ than anything else, and isn't that losing sight of where our organizations should be?

The simple fact is that without keeping afloat - not making a profit, making enough to keep operating - there will be no organization. As individuals, we must do what is best for the whole in order to ensure that the whole continues to be there for the organization.

On a different note, I too was House Manager when I was an active. We used the name-in-a-hat system for the privilege of living in the house. I will echo the sentiment that it is hard to believe that FOUR sororities' members were caught unaware of this.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by FirstAndFinest
The simple fact is that without keeping afloat - not making a profit, making enough to keep operating - there will be no organization. As individuals, we must do what is best for the whole in order to ensure that the whole continues to be there for the organization.

I understand that. I just wonder if things will ever change in terms of housing -- if numbers ever decline substantially, it could mean financial disaster for a chapter that has a huge, expensive house. Will there ever be a move away from that -- will organizations ever sell the big, huge expensive houses to reduce costs?

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

For us, it's NOT an issue of cost.

Yes, we have a house, but it's owned by the University. THEREFORE, if we don't stay at a certain % of the occupancy that they set, we can lose the house.

And yes, I would find it very hard to believe that they weren't aware of the whole living in situation either. Being higher on the list to choose your room (or living out) was the main reason for getting points for attendance and grades, etc. for us.

Plus, there are schools where living in the whole time is a given and they don't have trouble getting there.

It's all a mindset. If they know what's required going in, there shouldn't be any surprises.

[KellyB369]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Since when did our organizations become more about making money for the house than sisterhood? It seems like so many NPC sororities are getting to the point where it's more about $$$ than anything else, and isn't that losing sight of where our organizations should be?

Where do you draw the line between "no longer being an individual" when you join a sorority and being a pushover wuss? You are always an individual no matter what, and I would hope that people would remember that -- I hope that nobody is so "dedicated" to her organization that she'd lie so she can give blood because someone told her to, or that she'd let someone haze her because someone in her organization said she should.

It's no better to say "You don't want to live in the house -- so fine, quit, you can't be my sister any more" than it is to say "I don't want to live in the house so I quit." Neither one is very sisterly. I think that sometimes we get so caught up in how we think things should be we don't realize that not everybody feels the same way.

I can see where you are coming from as far as why does the house have to be such a focus, but I strongly disagree with your comparison. No where in our by-laws does it say, "You must allow yourself to be hazed" or "You must do whatever it takes to win Greek Week." What it does say though, in explicit terms, is that you must fulfill your housing obligation (which is now 2 years for my chapter). Maybe not having houses, especially huge expensive ones would help some things, like people who don't want to live there, chapter finances, etc. But having a house does a lot for a chapter and I think it can really boost the sisterhood because you really get to know each other. Just ask the people who don't have houses, some of them may say they are glad not to have the hassle, but a lot of them would die to have a place to live, eat, meet, have events, store things (especially ritual things), etc.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by KellyB369
I can see where you are coming from as far as why does the house have to be such a focus, but I strongly disagree with your comparison. No where in our by-laws does it say, "You must allow yourself to be hazed" or "You must do whatever it takes to win Greek Week." What it does say though, in explicit terms, is that you must fulfill your housing obligation (which is now 2 years for my chapter). Maybe not having houses, especially huge expensive ones would help some things, like people who don't want to live there, chapter finances, etc. But having a house does a lot for a chapter and I think it can really boost the sisterhood because you really get to know each other. Just ask the people who don't have houses, some of them may say they are glad not to have the hassle, but a lot of them would die to have a place to live, eat, meet, have events, store things (especially ritual things), etc.

I said what I did about hazing in response to what was said earlier about how you're not an individual any more once you join a sorority -- I just think that can be a dangerous thing to say to a young woman who could possibly be taken advantage of if she gives up too much of herself for the "greater good" of an organization. I agree with what you're saying about bylaws -- if it says you have to do it, you have to do it, period -- but I can understand why it would upset people.

[CASIGKAP]

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not living in the house. Granted, there are special circumstances in which a girl can be excused (i.e. caregiver etc.) but in no way should a girl be shocked that she is required to live in the house. I learned from Day 1 of rush that you are required to live in the house at least 1 year.
The way it's done at our chapter house, the only person that MUST live there and has priority is the President. Volunteers are always appreciated b/c there are always girls who are thrilled to live there.
IF there is still a room or two available, then we hold a lottery with the Freshman being drawn first. Sophomores are drawn second, then juniors. Seniors are last and are exempt unless they want to. This is b/c by the time they are seniors, most girls have lived in the house at some point.
Girls usually have to notify in advance if they have a good reason as to why they can't live in the house. If they get exempt, we go down the list to the next person and so on and so forth.
Finally, if there is still room available, then between all the girls who don't live there, they pay out of their own pocket the money that would otherwise be coming out of one girl. It's very effective b/c no one wants to pay for rent they don't technically owe. Once this happens, a surprisingly # of girls are willing to move in.

[AXORissa]

Originally posted by CASIGKAP
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not living in the house. Granted, there are special circumstances in which a girl can be excused (i.e. caregiver etc.) but in no way should a girl be shocked that she is required to live in the house. I learned from Day 1 of rush that you are required to live in the house at least 1 year.

see, I wasnt told until I started my new member period-- I think the sisters thought it would discourage people from pledging AXO. Being told you will have to live in the house is a deterrant for many people at Rush (since most sorority girls do not live in their house on my campus). Also, besides ZTA, no other house is a typical "sorority house" - our house is the next best thing, with only 20 members living in. I think the DG house holds 8. I dont know about GPB, but its not a lot of sisters either. SK and SDT dont have houses (unless they got one this year but I dont think so). So its basically us and ZTA that require sisters to fill a decent amount of spots, and i think my chapter tried to conceal that during Rush. My pledge class(Fall class, the spring class wasn't initated yet so they werent required to live in yet) was shocked to learn that we were being pulled in first. It was an issue, and some girls said they would deactivate if they were pulled. However, luckily, the house was able to be filled (with some of the Spring girls) and no sisters in my class dropped as a result. I did later learn that sisters had turned in their letters the year before, and they needed to have subletters move in to fill spaces. I would have hated to live with a subletter!

We changed this when I was a senior and in control- we let the new girls know right away about the housing policy, put living in the house in a positive light, and therefore we had a wait list the next year. its all about spin. Seriously, it shouldnt have been that hard to fill 20 spots when you had 80 women.

[33girl]

Originally posted by AXORissa
I did later learn that sisters had turned in their letters the year before, and they needed to have subletters move in to fill spaces. I would have hated to live with a subletter!

We had independents in our house. It's actually not that bad if you can manage to find someone who has a life of their own and is never there and just needs a place to sleep. Then again, we didn't hold initiation or anything in our house (not enough room) so we very rarely had to deal with the "you need to get out, we're having ritual" issue.

[dzrose93]

The chapter that I advise has a standing rule that new members must live in the house during their next school year. The house holds nearly 80 girls, so it's the best way to ensure that it will be full each year. The rent money is needed for upkeep of the house, and since living at the house is cheaper than living in a dorm or an apartment, it's not a bad deal at all. Plus you get the chance to become closer to your pledge class during that year.

Exec board members are also required to live in the house, and they have their own hall. It's the smart thing to do -- that way no one has to look far when they need an exec board signature for something.

I don't have a problem with sororities requiring their members to spend a certain amount of time in the sorority house -- as long as they give members notice upfront about that particular membership requirement. If you truly love your sisters, and want the full Greek experience, then it won't be something to dread. Instead, it will be something to look forward to.

[KappaKittyCat]

Originally posted by KellyB369
Just ask the people who don't have houses, some of them may say they are glad not to have the hassle, but a lot of them would die to have a place to live, eat, meet, have events, store things (especially ritual things), etc.

AMEN!

*ahem*

On the one hand, I'm glad not to have the hassle, but if my chapter had a house, I'd give up some personal freedom to live there. I'd love to have that bond and share those memories with my sisters.

[DolphinChicaDDD]

Originally posted by KellyB369
Just ask the people who don't have houses, some of them may say they are glad not to have the hassle, but a lot of them would die to have a place to live, eat, meet, have events, store things (especially ritual things), etc.

HOW TRUE!!!!!
Our "house" is a storage unit, where everything is hidden until that special time once a semester when they get taken out. We have wonderful trophies, our charter, banners, and other things that we LOVE and that sisters/NM put a lot of work into to make. In addition, we also have our ritual stuff in storage. Godforbid that storage unit gets broken into...Our president holds the ritual book but all the equipiment (ya know, cat suits, posiden's holding tank, etc) will be out there somewhere. We also had things ruined by water damage, and had to be replaced...good thing the ritual stuff wasn't ruined.


My point is, I would LOVE to have an esay place to meet, instead of wandering the acadmemic bulidings at nights for meeting, or hiding in rooms so that other sororities can't see us when we're working on dances and banners and stuff for Greek Week, or even have a place where we can easily do rush (you don't know how much of a PITA it is to get rush when ABC says that XYZ's room is bigger, meanwhile LMN hates their room because it also has a fume hood in it.) I would LOVE to have a place to eat. I would LOVE to live with my sisters.

I always thought living in the house is the greatest thing ever, and I don't understand why people would NOT want to live in the house.Especially if it is only one year.