National VS Local Debate

[veemers]

I joined my local because I liked the women in that group the best. They were the ones that I felt most akin to and comfortable with. I also really, really like the idea of my alum being from the same school as me. We all went to Beloit. We all know the same pains of no dinner on Sunday nights, inside jokes about various aspects of Beloit, etc. I think that being in a local maybe makes you closer to your alum.

Also, being a local, we have more flexibility in which groups and organizations we do philanthropy for. We've held charity events and volunteered for many different local organizations without fear of having to set aside money and time for one larger and/ or nationally known group.

As stated before, most locals tend to have lower fees than nationals. This means I don't have to be more stringent with my budget, but that's not a huge matter in this, as I hear that almost all organizations have ways for those who can not pay higher fees to still become part of the organization (including mine).

As per the hazing issue, if you're founding this chapter and you decide to go local/ regional, then you will have a large say in your ritual and you CAN prevent hazing from being a part of your chapter. I would recommend going to anti-hazing websites to see different definitions of hazing, and if your school has an anti-hazing policy, I would read up on that and see how your school defines it. Then you can make a better decision about what you would like to do for that.

But ultimately, I have to agree with the people who said that it depends on your campus. Here, my sorority is simply the best. That's why I joined it. I didn't know about the whole national versus local thing; I just knew that I was joining a sorority. It just happened to be local, and I love it that way. If going national fits in better with your school, then do it, but right now it sounds like you might want to try the regional thing first. You can establish your group and look at different nationals to decide what is best for your group. No national group is going to say, "Oh, you used to be a local, we don't want you."

But love the locals. If you don't love all of them, just love mine.

[XOMichelle]

I definately agree with what has been said here, I love my sorority, but if they had been local, I would still love them! I know it doesn't happen everywhere, but I picked my chapter because I liked the girls in it, and not for any national reputations. If the same girls had been in a local chapter, I would have picked them just the same.

However, now that I'm alum I love having a national structure to fall back on, and meeting new Chi Omegas. I suppose you can say I "bought" my freindship, but my initation fee was well worth it!! I have met quite a few women through my sorority that I would not have talked to otherwise, and it has enriched my life tremendously. I also like that wherever I move in the United States, and even the world, there are alumna there I can go and meet. The opportunity for such a social network is amazing, and I feel lucky to have it.
-M

[AlphaXiGirl31]

Nationals cost too much and hence "buying the friendship" Let me ask you something, you go to someones house you dont know in another state, whatever, and they accept you? that is buying friends...I dont care who you are I dont trust strangers in my house!

I wouldn't say that being able to visit (and being welcomed by)another chapter of your national organization means that you are "buying the friendship." It's a great way to network, and since (for example) all members are tied together by shared traditions and history, you already have something in common that money CAN'T buy. My chapter has had visitors from other chapters, and it has been really fun to show them around and get to know them.

Also nationals tend to discriminate based on looks, money or/and power.

Maybe this is a west coast thing, but I know that my chapter is VERY diverse in looks AND finances.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by BabyP
I have to agree that hazing are in nationals.
Nationals cost too much and hence "buying the friendship" Let me ask you something, you go to someones house you dont know in another state, whatever, and they accept you? that is buying friends...I dont care who you are I dont trust strangers in my house!
Two, Locals do NOT have to have a quota, i have also seen nationals shut down cuz they didnt have at least 50 members.
Three, too many people, its not a real togetherness.
Four, as for the house, sac state doesnt have greek row, only TWO greeks have a house. Also I have notice more HAZING and RAPES and UNDERAGE drinking in houses.
With locals, yes, we can change the rules for the better, hazing was accepted 50 years ago and the rules of nationals go back like a hundred years. Also nationals tend to discriminate based on looks, money or/and power.
Five, nationals seem to be obssessed with legacies. I honestly dont think it should matter if family was in ABC cuz that doesnt mean the child is the same as the parents.

Most of this post makes about as much sense as the "all locals haze" myth.



As for me, I ended up at a school that doesn't allow locals (although we did back in the "olden days" -- I've seen yearbook pictures) so it wasn't really a choice I ultimately had to make. However, at the University of Minnesota (my first school), and later when contemplating where to transfer to when choices include Beloit College and UW-Stevens Point, I would have had to make that decision since all three schools have a mix of nationals and locals. I was leaning more towards nationals and would have looked at them first, but I certainly would have picked a local over a national if I had liked the girls more. However, assuming all other factors were roughly equal I would have picked a national over a local.

Here are some advantages I think locals have over nationals:
- lower dues, which definitely would have helped if I had gone to Beloit, which is expensive enough
- a really great sense of history. Of course, some nationals have this and not all locals do, but the ones that do -- wow. I remember reading the Theta Pi Gamma website and wanting to pledge them for the story of their history alone -- haha! I feel like most national sororities either didn't keep good enough track of their history, sanitized it for posterity, or just weren't as interesting as the locals.
- As veemers said, there is something neat about knowing that every single one of your alums shared a similar experience in that you all went to the same school.

Conversely, why I was more interested in a national:
- the national presence. I love driving down the highway and seeing Tri Delta bumper stickers on cars, I love coming to GC and talking to sisters from UCLA and Stockton and everywhere in between, I love references to our name in movies and books and TV. Even when it's less than positive, like the portrayal in "Eating the Chesire Cat," it still just makes me laugh.
- the hazing thing. Although clearly not all locals haze and I have no clue if the locals at the schools I was looking at do, in Wisconsin locals are definitely more likely to (at least when it comes to sororities -- with fraternities it's pretty much even regardless of national/local status). I would have done my research with whatever group I decided to join, though. Nationals have the added bonus of, when it comes to hazing, if things get really out of control there is some sort of recourse you can take (by calling HQ) but that is not always the case with locals.
- In terms of Greek involvement at Minnesota where most of the system is national, I feel like belonging to a local sorority would limit the involvement I had in the Greek system. I wanted to be involved in as much as I possibly could and get to know as many people as I possibly could, and I'm not sure this would have happened in a local sorority. (At the Wisconsin schools where locals are more common, I don't think this would be a problem.)

[HollisterDXiChi]

My two cents:
I was fixed on remaining local. Hopefully become big and having other chapters all over the nation. It was a big dream. But after browsing several web sites and reading posts on GC, thinking and looking over my sorority's present state, I realized that going National would be a good thing.
1. Not only will you have sisters in your immediate chapter but you'll have "sisters" in Cali, NY, NH, OH or the college a couple hours away, and almost every state in the US.
2. You're a known name. Almost everyone knows of Phi Sig or DZ or the Ques or Delta Sigma Theta or Sig Ep or Theta Xi...you're known...
3. You get alum support-with a local, depending on how long you've been around, you don't have that.
4. Conventions-with locals...if youre the only chapter...you catch my drift...
5. You can order things out of Greek101, GreekConnections, and all the others that if you were local you wouldn't be able to. Like Greek101 has these cute laundry bags-for Nationals only. things like shot glasses with crests and stuff...
I can go on and on but I am determined to go National. Local has its perks but I know I'll enjoy affiliating with a National over being local.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by BabyP
I have to agree that hazing are in nationals.
Nationals cost too much and hence "buying the friendship" Let me ask you something, you go to someones house you dont know in another state, whatever, and they accept you? that is buying friends...I dont care who you are I dont trust strangers in my house!
Two, Locals do NOT have to have a quota, i have also seen nationals shut down cuz they didnt have at least 50 members.
Three, too many people, its not a real togetherness.
Four, as for the house, sac state doesnt have greek row, only TWO greeks have a house. Also I have notice more HAZING and RAPES and UNDERAGE drinking in houses.
With locals, yes, we can change the rules for the better, hazing was accepted 50 years ago and the rules of nationals go back like a hundred years. Also nationals tend to discriminate based on looks, money or/and power.
Five, nationals seem to be obssessed with legacies. I honestly dont think it should matter if family was in ABC cuz that doesnt mean the child is the same as the parents.

There is definitely more hazing in locals than in nationals. Especially with sororities. There is a reason why the trend to eliminate locals in greek systems is unabated, while the trend to ban greek systems has greatly diminished. This isn't an opinion, but fact. Your one local may not haze, but your local experience does not give you insight into greek systems across the country. Also, because you are in a local, you do not have access to information about greek systems across the country, except by hearsay.

Hazing enters greeks systems from external experiences (high school hazing is, by far, the most common way) and is spread through a greek system by observation.

A chapter of a national GLO may have its parent organization to help bring about reform. A local has no one to answer to, and no one to teach reformed chapter management. A local that hazes, will continue to haze, and continue to exert a negative influence on the local greek system's greek community. This is why many greek systems seek to eliminate locals.

With regard to "buying friends," what defines that? Paying less in a local isn't, but paying more in a national is? That's a foolish and indefensible position. The extra money paid isn't for friends, its for liability insurance, and chapter support services. These things are why chapters of national groups that fold may later be revived, but locals that fold are usually gone forever.

Concerning "quota," fraternities don't have this. Some local sororities do have quota. It depends on whether that group belongs to the local PanHel. Also, non-NPC national groups may exist outside a system that requires compliance with quota and total.

If you meet a relative for the first time, do you treat them like strangers? If you meet a sorority sister from your local, who was initiated 10 years before you, do you treat her like a stranger? If you do, you live a bizarre and paranoid life. Extending feelings of closeness to someone, with a shared background, whom you just met isn't "buying friends." Its called "being human."

No NIC or NPC group, with which I'm aware, has ever had hazing as part of ritual or standard operating procedure. Many locals do. Again, the difference is that nationals have an institutional capability to eliminate hazing, that while not always effective, is at least usually effective. Locals don't eliminate hazing. They just distance themselves from their college administrations.

Finally, national groups are not obsessed with legacies. Some chapters place a premium on legacies, and that varies with the region.

[NutBrnHair]

Wow! Most articulate, Russell Warshay! I agree & wish I could have stated my thoughts that eloquently.

[adpiucf]

My university had only NPC chapters, and no local sororities. I went through formal recruitment and today, I am a member of Alpha Delta Pi Sorority, an organization that was founded as the first "local" back in 1851, and eventually became international!

Based on my experience in an NPC sorority, I am obviously biased as to why I prefer and would be more likely to promote an international or national sorority to those considering Greek Life.

As an alumna volunteer, the benefits to being a member of an international sorority are many. I can volunteer in a variety of functions, travel, network and exchange ideas with women of our organization all over the world. I also enjoy being able to be a part of the NPC, which widens the network and idea exchange.

I am sure there are 100s of involved local alumnae, and I am not disputing their involvement. But as a member of an NPC, it has been instilled in me that the sorority is more than a 4 year experience. It is for a lifetime and the opportunities for involvement are as diverse and abundant as our membership.

Go on with your Beta chapter! You are laying the foundation for a legacy that has the potential to go past your lifetime and preserve your vision for all time.

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by veemers
I joined my local because I liked the women in that group the best. They were the ones that I felt most akin to and comfortable with. I also really, really like the idea of my alum being from the same school as me. We all went to Beloit. We all know the same pains of no dinner on Sunday nights, inside jokes about various aspects of Beloit, etc. I think that being in a local maybe makes you closer to your alum.

Also, being a local, we have more flexibility in which groups and organizations we do philanthropy for. We've held charity events and volunteered for many different local organizations without fear of having to set aside money and time for one larger and/ or nationally known group.

As stated before, most locals tend to have lower fees than nationals. This means I don't have to be more stringent with my budget, but that's not a huge matter in this, as I hear that almost all organizations have ways for those who can not pay higher fees to still become part of the organization (including mine).

As per the hazing issue, if you're founding this chapter and you decide to go local/ regional, then you will have a large say in your ritual and you CAN prevent hazing from being a part of your chapter. I would recommend going to anti-hazing websites to see different definitions of hazing, and if your school has an anti-hazing policy, I would read up on that and see how your school defines it. Then you can make a better decision about what you would like to do for that.

But ultimately, I have to agree with the people who said that it depends on your campus. Here, my sorority is simply the best. That's why I joined it. I didn't know about the whole national versus local thing; I just knew that I was joining a sorority. It just happened to be local, and I love it that way. If going national fits in better with your school, then do it, but right now it sounds like you might want to try the regional thing first. You can establish your group and look at different nationals to decide what is best for your group. No national group is going to say, "Oh, you used to be a local, we don't want you."

But love the locals. If you don't love all of them, just love mine.

Girl, you rock!

This is EXACTLY what I would have said and how I feel.
I chose my house because I had fun at the events and the girls were cool. I wasn't thinking at the time... gee, I wonder if the alumna in Georgia can get me a job if I move -or- gee, I wonder when I can go to national conferences and meet zillions of other sisters I don't know but they all have the same letters and values I do. As a lil freshman, I wanted a place to get to know people, to have fun, play sports, and make college go easier. And I found a house that did that at half the price (very good for someone who didn't work thruout college.) I chose greek life because it was suggested by a family member. I probably could have gotten a great college experience via another club or something if I wanted to. But I went greek... and voila... it just happened to be in a local.

I do have a question about nationals though. Do national sororities have 'caps' on how much you pay for a formal bid and restrictions on where the formal takes place? My cousin is an AXO and said she never paid more than 5 buck for her formal and I pay anywhere between $40-80 per couple in my sorority. And I have heard about another chapter getting 'fined' because they uped formal bids to make it nicer. Is it just Sac State or are there really restrictions like this?

[33girl]

Originally posted by chideltjen
I do have a question about nationals though. Do national sororities have 'caps' on how much you pay for a formal bid and restrictions on where the formal takes place? My cousin is an AXO and said she never paid more than 5 buck for her formal and I pay anywhere between $40-80 per couple in my sorority. And I have heard about another chapter getting 'fined' because they uped formal bids to make it nicer. Is it just Sac State or are there really restrictions like this?

Some sororities add the cost of the formal in to your semesterly dues, some don't. (I think this is called "assessing" and that could be another whole thread .) I know that ours was usually about the same price as yours - not everybody went so adding the price into dues would not have went over very well.

[MTSUGURL]

Benefits of being in (my) local, as I realize they are not all the same.

1. WE DO NOT HAZE. AT ALL. We take this very seriously, and thankfully, being the only local here, there isn't a reputation that "locals haze".
2. We are able to have a more diverse membership. If we want the 25 year old junior that came back to college, we can take her.
3. We make our own traditions.
4. We set the standards for ourselves.
5. Dues are cheaper.
6. Our smaller size allows us to get to know each other on a deeper level.
7. There are immediate opportunities for leadership.

There are more but here are some cons.

1. We have no national backing to help us enforce policies, fines, or standards. (Academic, personal, conduct, etc.)
2. If just one class messes up ritual or forgets a tradition, there's a large chance that it may be lost due to lack of alumnae participation.
3. There is a very small alumnae base; since there are no real networking opportunities or funding for continued activities for alum, it almost is a "4 years only" Greek experience.
4. Dues may be cheaper, but if we want a nice formal, recrutiment, etc, we have to fork over big bucks out of pocket because we have such a small budget.
5. Our smaller size sometimes prevents us from participating in activities that we would like to take part in, and makes it more difficult to establish name recognition.
6. The attitude does still exist in some instances on my campus that a local sorority is not a real sorority.
7. Because of the need for leadership, sometimes members can find themselves overwhelmed with a position that they might not be ready for.

This is peculiar to MY local. One of the major things to recognize is that ALL locals are individual and unique of each other. It is also important to note whether or not locals were founded for the sake of affiliating with a national sorority. I would love the benefits that come with being a member of a national or international sorority - I would love to move to another town, look up the local alumnae chapter and automaticall have sisters to turn to. Which is why I'm hoping Phi Chi affiliates...

[Lady Pi Phi]

When I went to the info night for my chapter of Pi Beta Phi I didn't know anything about the NPC, formal rush, quota, networking, etc, etc. I was looking for a place to make new friends. It wasn't till rush (recruitment) did I start to learn all these things.
But I fell in love with the chapter and the ladies the first time I met them and I would have joined even if they were a local.
Since I am in an (inter)national organization Ivery much like the idea of being able to go anywhere and meet sisters because it's a chance to make new friends, new connections.

To say I am buying my friends is stupid. My dues where a lot lower than other Pi Phi chapters. Dues are dependent on the kind of expenses each chapter has, not how many "friends you're willing to buy".

[Diamond Delta]

I *think* maybe the reason your formal seems more expensive is because your overall dues are cheaper. I know that national dues tend to be more expensive than local's, but part of that is because it subsidizes other costs-like formal or a social or a T-shirt. Also, when planning any social function, you tend to get cheaper prices the more people you have. For example, a formal dinner for 50 may be $50 per person for catering, but for 150 people it is only $25 per person. You know, DJ's cost the same reagrdless of how many people listen to them-so splitting it up 100 ways instead of 20 helps out. This is just my educated guess. Everyone's is a bit different. But I've never heard of a "cap".

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by BabyP
I have to agree that hazing are in nationals.
Nationals cost too much and hence "buying the friendship" Let me ask you something, you go to someones house you dont know in another state, whatever, and they accept you? that is buying friends...I dont care who you are I dont trust strangers in my house!
Two, Locals do NOT have to have a quota, i have also seen nationals shut down cuz they didnt have at least 50 members.
Three, too many people, its not a real togetherness.
Four, as for the house, sac state doesnt have greek row, only TWO greeks have a house. Also I have notice more HAZING and RAPES and UNDERAGE drinking in houses.
With locals, yes, we can change the rules for the better, hazing was accepted 50 years ago and the rules of nationals go back like a hundred years. Also nationals tend to discriminate based on looks, money or/and power.
Five, nationals seem to be obssessed with legacies. I honestly dont think it should matter if family was in ABC cuz that doesnt mean the child is the same as the parents.

Oh hun... I'm sorry. I mean I am in a local and I don't agree with this.

Any club that requires you to pay anything can be considered 'buying your friends' in a non member's eye. The only benefit locals have is that their dues are seen by everyone and are used for the local's purpose and function. Whereas nationals... well, some goes to the chapter... some I'm not sure.
I also think that if you want to join a house with 150 members, that's your peragative. Like Russel said, if you were to go to a family reunion and meet family members you hadn't seen since you were two, would you treat them any differently? I like having a smaller chapter. (Actually ours is growing quite large now...) But having a large house has it's benefits. More people to cheer you on at events, more people to run for the presidency of the house, more participation, etc.
About the discriminating on looks/etc... I used to think that about our system. True, we do have a chapter on campus where all the girls kinda have the same hair color. BUT even that chapter is getting more diverse. There are quite a few houses that have many different nationalities and income ranges. I don't think I have met a sorority girl on our campus that has her parents paying for EVERYTHING beyond her freshman year.
And I will be the one to admit that our house wasn't structured well a few years ago. We did have debatable practices in the treatment of new members. But that stopped. It didn't work. It hurt EVERYONE. And the other greeks weren't naive to it either. So we restructured and now we have one of the stronger houses on campus.
*steps off soap box*
I forgot to add this to my last post... my grandsis made a joke at one of the rush events. We are the Jet Blue of sororities. Same experience for price that's easier on the wallet. I thought it was cute.

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by MTSUGURL
There are more but here are some cons.

1. We have no national backing to help us enforce policies, fines, or standards. (Academic, personal, conduct, etc.)
2. If just one class messes up ritual or forgets a tradition, there's a large chance that it may be lost due to lack of alumnae participation.
3. There is a very small alumnae base; since there are no real networking opportunities or funding for continued activities for alum, it almost is a "4 years only" Greek experience.
4. Dues may be cheaper, but if we want a nice formal, recrutiment, etc, we have to fork over big bucks out of pocket because we have such a small budget.
5. Our smaller size sometimes prevents us from participating in activities that we would like to take part in, and makes it more difficult to establish name recognition.
6. The attitude does still exist in some instances on my campus that a local sorority is not a real sorority.
7. Because of the need for leadership, sometimes members can find themselves overwhelmed with a position that they might not be ready for.

This sounds similar to us. You aren't alone. You are looking at sister who was taught from her delphia semester that Chi Delta was founded in Fall 1990. No actual founding date... just a semester.
Family trees also tend to not be documented as well I found.
You win some and lose some I guess...