So SAD/ANGRY

[Discogoddess]

Another thought: I used to work with a foundation whose funding focus was girls' programs, not the direct, teen-pregnancy-prevention-type programs, but things like theatre, soccer, dance, poetry, etc. The thought was that girls who are engaged in positive activities and short- and long-term goal-setting/achievement will be by definition less likely to get caught up in having sex that results in STDs, pregnancy, etc. The foundation even had a council of girls who acted as grantmakers themselves, which served as a way to give girls the opportunity to be about grown-up business that had a positive impact, without always pounding the "don't get pregnant" message into them.

I like that model-which has been touched upon by previous posters-that puts the focus on positive living, not just pregnancy prevention. We need holistic solutions, not only the band-aids I spoke of previously.

[prettygyrl]

Ania I was not directing my post at you. I was just touching on some of the points I read about..........Its great that you came through that ordeal with flying colors. I just wanted both sides to be told.


I hope that all the ladies that work with these young girls are affective in influencing them to do great things and try and make responsible decisions.


Its just that sometimes some people seem to forget that the world we live in is not the "ideal" world and we are not living among an "ideal" society. At the same time what one person thinks is "ideal" for them another person may think that something different is "ideal" for them. Then you have some young ladies who are not even taught what a (if there is a such thing) "ideal" life is. So in our quest to school young ladies to work on bettering themselves and to try and focus on other positive things besides sex to do with themselves in trying to deter them from getting involved sexually.................We must remember that there are alot of young women who have already ventured away from what one may think of as an "ideal" situation to have kids in who may need sincere help also without one continuously letting her know how "ideal" her situation is not.
Once it is done a young woman has to find away to make her situation "ideal" for her and her child(ren). In which she can definitely do without some peoples self-righteous bullcrap.

Discgoddess is right it may be a more difficult(depending on ones support system) for those of us, who may have strayed from what some think of as an "ideal" situation, to succeed at certain things at life. BUT that does not mean we can not succeed to the fullest. Success comes in many forms and their is enough out their for all of us to have a nice piece of it. If we are willing to work hard to get it, we shall have it!

[Discogoddess]

No, our world is not ideal, and I don't claim it to be, but individuals can and do rise to the standards set for them by others (their family, school, community) as well as those they set for themselves (with the help of aforementioned groups). I refuse to believe that we should abandon hope for an ideal, simply because the reality is bleak. If everyone thought that way, we wouldn't be chatting in a forum named after an organization of women who believed in higher ideals than what many in society thought they should aspire to/live out.

I don't think it's self-righteous to hold ourselves and our children to certain ideals, and if delaying sex/children until marriage isn't the ideal of some, then I say fine-just make sure you can handle/finance the ramifications of those acts. That usually is the domain of rational, self-supporting adults.

[AlphaChiGirl]

I don't know if the answer is telling kids NOT to have sex. Do any of you seriously think that if someone had come to you (even if they did), telling you not to have sex if you wanted to, would you have abstained? I've had the experience that if someone tells you NOT to do something, chances are you're going to do it.

The issue here is personal responsibility. I don't know how effective it is to tell kids who are already sexually active to stop having sex, but to advise them of the dangers and to educate them FULLY on safer sex and personal responsibility. They need to know that no guy is too big for a condom, that all sorts of myths about doing it standing up or that having sex for the first time won't get you pregnant just aren't true. They need to know that nothing except abstinence and sterilization is 100% effective.

Maybe "glamourized" is too strong of a word. I think society has made the plight of the young unwed mother look much less difficult than it is, and girls see it just as "oh, I'll have a baby to take care of and love", and not the 18+ year committment it really is. Yes, labor may be "not so bad", but it's the time afterwards which is really hard. Of course, I'm not an unwed mother in high school, so I really don't know.

Yes, I do realize that I am blessed to have two stable parents who love me very much, taught me to be ambitious, and did teach me personal responsibility.

Prettygyrl, it does seem as if you're doing very well for yourself with a child, and you shouldn't be pigeonholed with those who aren't doing well for themselves, and repeat their "mistakes" (I don't know any other word) by having more children.
I think I know why girls who have kids before HS graduation aren't allowed to be debutantes, or at least this was the "traditional" reason and what still applies where I live. I'm not so sure if it's such a BAD thing. Debutante balls were created for those (in the upper classes) who were basically putting their daughters on the "marriage market". These women had usually graduated from high school and college with pristine records, from the best homes. The stigma against unwed mothers was much stronger then than it is now, but unwed mothers who hadn't finished high school were considered "immoral" (take that as you will, I'm just quoting someone who explained this to me). And to some extent, yes, they still are now. At the same time, a girl who was known to be sexually licentious (even without having a baby), drug users, disrespectful, or poor students. It was basically, and still is where I live, "a showcase for good little rich girls who never got caught". The group who did debutante balls where I grew up disbanded before I was of age (but, for the record, I was eligible and had been groomed). I don't think a young unwed mother really fits that description. Sorry to be blunt but it's true.

If anyone would like to discuss anything with me that's related to this topic, but NOT THIS TOPIC, feel free to email. I don't want to be the one responsible for getting this off topic.

Oh yeah...Conskeeted...have you ever had a safer sex program where you showed the girls how everything WORKS? (ie, the way to put a condom on--using a banana or artificial device, etc.). I wonder if the "hands-on" experience could do something for them.

[This message has been edited by AlphaChiGirl (edited February 06, 2001).]

[Poplife]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
Another thought: I used to work with a foundation whose funding focus was girls' programs, not the direct, teen-pregnancy-prevention-type programs, but things like theatre, soccer, dance, poetry, etc. The thought was that girls who are engaged in positive activities and short- and long-term goal-setting/achievement will be by definition less likely to get caught up in having sex that results in STDs, pregnancy, etc. The foundation even had a council of girls who acted as grantmakers themselves, which served as a way to give girls the opportunity to be about grown-up business that had a positive impact, without always pounding the "don't get pregnant" message into them.

I like that model-which has been touched upon by previous posters-that puts the focus on positive living, not just pregnancy prevention. We need holistic solutions, not only the band-aids I spoke of previously.

I like your point about getting involved DG. In fact, Alpha Kappa Alpha's Arts target is one of the things that made it attractive to me in the first place.

I took all sorts of dance classes when I was in middle/high school. When I look back on it, all of the girls at my studio graduated High School (many with high GPA's), went to college, and kept our virginity for longer than many of our non-active peers if at all(yes we were all friends and told our business...lol). We also had higher self-esteem than many other girls and had despite what they say about dancers, we had pretty good body image. We were very disciplined and quite proud of our skills that we had worked so hard for. I really think that was the key. We had something other than an infant in our arms to be proud of. Any female with a women's body can have a baby. We had ribbons, trophies, worn ballet shoes, and a standing ovations.

I was lucky to grow up in a place where even if you didn't have the 45 bucks a month to take ballet you could still pay 99 cents for a jump rope and enter the double-dutch tournament. Even though my town was not small, it was very community based. I really do believe that when people come together they DO better.

I just wish there were more community based programs out there. Like DG said, it's not about staring more pregnancy prevention programs. It's about teaching our children with love, attention, and positive examples.

[prettygyrl]

ALPHA CHI GIRL WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL WE DID NOT HAVE THE DEBUTANTE BALL BUT THEY HAVE IT IN THE SCHOOLS NOW.........TRUTH BE TOLD DEAR THE IMMORALITY OF THE WHOLE ISSUE IS THE PREMARITAL SEX AND IN GODS EYES A WOMAN HAVING SEX BEFORE SHE IS MARRIED IS NO BETTER THAN ONE THAT GETS CAUGHT UP AND HAS A KID, AND IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN. GIVING BIRTH IS NEVER A SIN. SO IF YOU ARE OUT THERE OR WERE OUT THERE AT ONE TIME SCREWING WITH NO RING ON YOUR FINGER THEN YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM THE GIRL WITH SIX KIDS DOWN THE WAY, IF YOU THINK YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE THINKS THEY ARE THEN YALL SHOULD BUY A CLUE............SO IF YOU WERE NOT A VIRGIN AT THE TIME YOUR IN HIGHSCHOOL THEN IN TECHNICAL TERMS DEAR YOU DID NOT FIT THE CRITERIA TO BE DEBUTANTE BECAUSE A TRUE DEBUTANTE HAS GONE UNTOUCHED AND IF THAT WAS THE CASE WITH THE SCHOOL IN MY AREA AND SCHOOLS WHERE EVER THEY HAVE THAT MESS I WOULD NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH IT BUT LAST YEAR AT THE HIGH SCHOOL HERE THERE WAS A GIRL WHO WAS A DEBUTANTE WHO HAD SLEPT WITH SO MANY GUYS, I'M TALKING GUYS MY AGE(25) BUT YET SHE QUALIFIED TO FRONT IN WHITE BUT THIS OTHER YOUNG LADY THAT ALWAYS VOLUNTEERED WITH US AFTER SCHOOL COULD NOT BE A DEBUTANTE CAUSE SHE HAD A CHILD BY THE BOYFRIEND THAT SHE HAD BEEN WITH ALL THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL HE WAS AND STILL IS THE ONLY BOY SHE HAS EVER BEEN WITH BUT SINCE THEY HAD A CHILD THEY COULD NOT PARITCIPATE BUT THE TOWN HOOKER COULD BECAUSE SHE DID NOT HAVE ANY CHILDREN(DUE MOSTLY TO ABORTIONS) WHATS THE JUSTICE IN THAT? WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL IT WAS THE POOR LITTLE RICH GIRLS THAT WERE THE BIGGEST SLUTS................


I never said it was self righteous for people to instill their values into their children. That it is fine. One can not instill their values on everyone nor condemn those who do not share the same beliefs though,. As I said before there are some who do not even have parents to instill anything in them, so its not right for others to stand around and pass negative judgements simple as that........I never said give up hope because reality looks bleak, for some hope is all they have. We should all work to better ourselves and better our society we should never give up hope but we must allow people to come around at their own pace. Wanting and aspiring for a perfect world or a world where there is no sin or a world where all sex is had by married folks or whatever floats ones boat in their idea world is fine. To achieve a world of such caliber would require that everyone work together in some aspect and we can not do that if we snub, judge, talk about, mistreat etc, those who have different lives, who have made different choices, and come from different situations. Just because you may not have committed the same wrongs as I have or the same sins as I have, or maybe you have not made the same bad choices that maybe I have..........Still that does not mean that you have not done wrong, or sinned or made a bad choice ..............................So I will say as I always say How can one imperfect mistake making, sinning human being judge another? They can't they just try to and it usually is to either downplay something they did or they have some self-esteem issues to work on for themselves.

If people are not sincerely interested in trying to help a person out then why do people even care what somebody else is doing.


You know how the saying goes if you don't have nothing nice to say then say NOTHING at all.

And my saying is if your not spending your time trying to help and postively uplift others(even if it just simply being understanding) then you should spend your time worrying about yourself and your immediate surroundings because nothing and nobody else is of your concern.

[prettygyrl]

Poplife your are so right and I completely agree with DC O on that poin also.


Oh an ALPHA CHI GIRL I never said how many children I had so you don't know how many "mistakes" as you say, I have made. However many whether its one, two, five , or ten I am handling mine, I am not concerned with myself I never am I concerned with young teenagers who have or may walk the path I have walked. If I could help deter the ones that have not walked it I am pleased and if I can help the ones that are walking a similar path tomine walk it with there head held up high and walk it correctly I am pleased. If I could change just one stuck up, fronting, judgemental persons ways of diminshing these young girls self-esteem then I am fulfilled.

[bcde]

Relax, relate, release.....
Prettygyrl,
I have conversed with you in the past, girl you still have that passion. You can still be anything you want to be in life and I know you'll make it.

Conskeeted I will e-mail you with some possible solutions. It will be kind of long, so I did not want to post it here.

[This message has been edited by bcde (edited February 06, 2001).]