Sell Out???

[jazbri]

Originally posted by Epitome:
This is an excellent topic. I have to applaud those who made the connection that drug dealers are selling out our communities. Along the same lines, I would define a sell-out (in the broad sense) as someone who is not living up to their potential, whether it be by engaging in illegal stuff like being a drug dealer, or just being a plain, ordinary slacker. People who do that are cheating themselves, their families, and their communities out of experiencing life to its fullest.

Spankee's post about some Blacks being assimilated (my word, not spankee's) into the White world and not feeling there's anymore struggle is dead on. But again, what about those Blacks who've accepted that poverty, inequality, and drug dealing are just a part of our communities? I'd say they've forgotten the struggle as well. There is apathy on both ends of the spectrum.

Thank you, so much for that particular point. I've been following this with a bowl of popcorn! Excellent debate. I've never examined the 'slackers' if you will in our society and I think your comment is totally on point!


------------------
"Unless you know the road you've come down, you cannot know where you are going"
~Temme proverb, Sierre Leone~

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
what does this mean?

Again, just asking...


[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited January 25, 2001).]

If you are an African-American, and you witness or are the object of any type of action that negatively affects any human; and that action is clearly done out of jealousy, hatred or even dislike towards African-Americans-and you DON'T SPEAK OUT AGAINST IT, YOU ARE A SELLOUT.

There comes a time when SILENCE IS BETRAYAL; so if Collin Powell, Candoleeze, or any other prominent African-American that has access to the media ignores wrong-doing for the sake of fear of making waves, THEY ARE SELL-OUTS. NO ANDS, ORS, BUTS ABOUT IT.

[mccoyred]

Personally, if ANYONE reminded me of Clarence "handkercheifhead" Thomas, I'd RUN the other way!

Originally posted by AlphaChiGirl:
Regardless of her political affiliation and the fact that she DOES remind me of Clarence Thomas (in ways that Gen. Powell doesn't) she is a very likeable, dignified woman.

Originally posted by AlphaChiGirl:
Every article I have read about her fails to mention anything reproachable--she is intelligent, highly moral, well-dressed Black woman who, along with Ruth Simmons, is a great role model for young Black girls.

If Condoleeza DOES hold the same views as Clarence, then I would say she IS NOT a good role model because Justice Thomas IS NOT a good role model (for Black boys). IMO, he is the ULTIMATE sell out.

BTW AlphaChiGirl, are you Black? If you are not, then you have no business even trying to tell US who OUR role models should be.

------------------
MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

[This message has been edited by mccoyred (edited April 18, 2001).]

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
If you are an African-American, and you witness or are the object of any type of action that negatively affects any human; and that action is clearly done out of jealousy, hatred or even dislike towards African-Americans-and you DON'T SPEAK OUT AGAINST IT, YOU ARE A SELLOUT.

There comes a time when SILENCE IS BETRAYAL; so if Collin Powell, Candoleeze, or any other prominent African-American that has access to the media ignores wrong-doing for the sake of fear of making waves, THEY ARE SELL-OUTS. NO ANDS, ORS, BUTS ABOUT IT.

I hear what you are saying TOA, I really do, but as a "corporate slave" I must say this...to truly effect change in this day and age I think you must have agitation on the outside AND someone on the inside affecting change. I am in HR. I cannot tell you how many times I have been in discussions about possible candidates for jobs and a white counterpart told me that someone was "cocky" or "had a chip on their shoulder" or "didn't seem friendly." One guess on what race those people were. I had 3 choices in those situations... I could have:
1) Started grinning and agreeing with her
2) Get her told about what a racist so and so she is
3) Focus the conversations back on the competencies for the position and point out how that person had the qualities we were looking for.

Most times I choose #3 (although catch me on the right day and I will go #2 on yo a$$!!)

I think sometimes we expect the Colin Powells of the world to be firebrands and if they are not they are sellouts. I don't think that is the case. I'll give you another example--Bryant Gumbel ((ducking to avoid the tomatoes being thrown my way)) Most Black folks will brand him a sell-out. Now, Bryants new found love of blonde white women aside, I think Bryant is far from a sell-out. For instance, he is a MAJOR supporter of UNCF and has spoken about it casually and in formal settings when he was on the Today Show. It is because of Bryant (almost singlehandedly) that the Today Show did that week (or was it 2 weeks?) in Africa a few years ago. No other network had done that. If Bryant had been branded a 'Black nationalist' early in his career he would have never gotten those opportunities. Sometimes we just gotta know what battles to pick and sometimes silence does not mean agreement, but it means waiting for a more opportune time.

[Sunshine14]

How do you use the stupid quote thing??? Somebody please help!!!!!!!!!

Anyway!! AlphaChiGirl b4 you speak please get the facts straight. Your sorority sister often visited 16th Street Baptist church, I am member there and my family has been attending there since the 40's. She and my aunt were very good friends growing up. Condoleeza's father was very instrumental in my aunt's decision to attend Stillman College an HBCU where she pledged a BLACK SORORITY. For those who are out of touch that is a Historically Black College and University!!! Also if I'm not mistaken her father was the principal of one of B'ham's 3 black high schools up unitl the early 60's. And where did you get the idea that she moved when she was 9 or 10. Her dad just died around Christams time and he was still residing here in B'ham with the rest of her family. Your sorority sister didn't leave B'ham until she left for college and after she graduated she still lived her for awhile. Please get the facts straight!!!

I'm happy to hear that she is very active in your community but what about our community?? Are you all active in the black community?? If the answer is yes I rest my case, but if it's what I KNOW it is, I've proven my point. I can't recall ever seeing a white sorority or fraternity in the black community, so therefore what has she given back to us?? Why would you even mention her name in the same sentence with Clarence Thomas, you only hurt her credibility even more. If she reminds you of Clarence Thomas then that's bad news for not only blacks but America as a whole! What makes her so likeable in your opinion? and who are you to tell black women who our role models should be? IS she so likable because she has so many white affiliations? Is that your idea of a successful black woman....please explian! I'm quite confused.

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Why are Black people so sensitive about every little thing that is said to them? I wonder if White people would get all upset if I said Hilary Clinton (or any other high profile White woman) is a good role model for White girls.

[AlphaChiGirl]

Originally posted by mccoyred:


BTW AlphaChiGirl, are you Black? If you are not, then you have no business even trying to tell US who OUR role models should be.

As a matter of fact, yes I am. How can you tell me, then, what I have "business" doing?

All I said is that she is Presbyterian by faith. I didn't say, "she didn't attend that church!" because I don't know.

[AKA2D '91]

Frankly, what goes on with white folks and their role models (or whatever) is of no concern to me and I am sure many others. Cause they don't give a rat's behind about us and ours!

I don't see how a black person in this world cannot be sensitive towards many things. Why do some of us want to remove ourselves from things that are apart of us?

So yeah, I am sensitive and I am not ashamed about it!

AlphaChigirl, I can see where mccoyred was coming from. She asked if you were black because of your username. I am sure there are not too many blacks in your organization. Correct me if I am wrong...

[Bobby Earl]

In the words of Ace Ventura "AAAAAAAlRighty then". Let's take a moment to read some famous words...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ManndingoNUPE:
[B]

Though we all have our own various opinions, and we do disagree (sometimes kinda heatedly),we still maintain respect and love for that person and their viewpoint.

I love U guys man!!! Big group hug.

MN

Inhale ...Exhale ....Inhale ...Exhale ...

Now don't you all feel better?

AlphaChiGirl, keep ya head up.

[Discogoddess]

My question is: why is everyone always hyperventilating on this board? Especially as it pertains to race? Did these emotions help someone get into college today? Get a job? Learn how to read? Get quality health care? Start a successful business? Register to vote?

If all of you are so down, then we certainly can do without the two or ten black folks you consider not black enough.

This constant bitching and moaning (YES, I said it) is soooo not productive, not in here, not in your communities, and not on the national stage. I mean, really.

Whoever's bad enough to challenge my "black pass," for speaking my mind, bring it on!

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:


Whoever's bad enough to challenge my "black pass," for speaking my mind, bring it on!

If anyone does BRING IT ON...make sure you do it PRIVATELY! Cause, this is NOT the place!

[exquizit]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
If anyone does BRING IT ON...make sure you do it PRIVATELY! Cause, this is NOT the place!

Let's hear it for the REGULATOR!!
Maybe it's the weather that has everyone so heated these days

[Sunshine14]

Why is that people can't debate and others not take it so damn serious. I mean really if it doesn't concern you then don't worry about it. Why try and pick a fight about something that wasn't asked of you, what is that supposed to prove??

As for you AlphaChigirl YES you did say that she did not attend the church because her dad was a pastor at another church, I was just correcting you. Refering back to my sorors comment, I too would like to know why you or others like you choose to remove yourselves from something that is obviously a part of you. I'm not being funny, but I really am curious. I found out from reading in another forum that you were black. I don't know too many whites who would rush to the book store to purchase the Divine Nine. I hope it educated you and enlightened you on the Black Sororities and Fraternities.

And yes, I am senstive to certain issues and I don't mind asking questions!!!!!!!!!!

[Discogoddess]

A general point of clarification:

I said "bring it on" in my last post as a critique of the way some people on this thread have been challenging others about their race/views/authority to give comment. I thought everyone had a right to give comment, including someone like me, critiquing the level of borderline stankness up in here. I am not trying to start a war. In fact, I don't think the topic is that dag-on serious (see aforementioned remarks about hyperventilating).

This whole notion that we should be spending time getting worked up about who said what is a little silly, given that none of this will accomplish any of the work we accuse sell-outs of not doing in our communities (or that many of us take pride in boasting we do).

I'm sure you all will appreciate my right to comment on other people's sentiments, as that's what a forum is for-at least my understanding of forums. And it's others' rights to take my words in whatever tone they'd like to. And on picking fights, I seem to remember a saying about pots calling kettles black (in reference to Sunshine14's "picking" with our sisterfriend from Alpha Chi Omega).

To answer the original question, no, I don't think one's political, social or fraternal affiliation should label one a sell-out, just like choice of hairstyle, mate, institution of higher learning or neighborhood constitutes such. A sell-out in my mind is one sitting on their butt complaining and not taking action (!), or using community resources and not putting back.

At a certain point, we all have a right to just be, and not ALWAYS be labeled based on our skin color. I find it odd that just like whites have automatic thoughts as to what black people should do or be based on their color, black folks themselves have this same notion, and some of us justify it by saying "well, that's how THEY are!" Like your Granny didn't teach you better-just cuz somebody else is doing something, don't mean you should!

Alright yall, I've beat this to death. Have a great weekend!



[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited January 26, 2001).]

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by Eclipse:
I hear what you are saying TOA, I really do, but as a "corporate slave" I must say this...to truly effect change in this day and age I think you must have agitation on the outside AND someone on the inside affecting change. I am in HR. I cannot tell you how many times I have been in discussions about possible candidates for jobs and a white counterpart told me that someone was "cocky" or "had a chip on their shoulder" or "didn't seem friendly." One guess on what race those people were. I had 3 choices in those situations... I could have:
1) Started grinning and agreeing with her
2) Get her told about what a racist so and so she is
3) Focus the conversations back on the competencies for the position and point out how that person had the qualities we were looking for.

Most times I choose #3 (although catch me on the right day and I will go #2 on yo a$$!!)

I think sometimes we expect the Colin Powells of the world to be firebrands and if they are not they are sellouts. I don't think that is the case. I'll give you another example--Bryant Gumbel ((ducking to avoid the tomatoes being thrown my way)) Most Black folks will brand him a sell-out. Now, Bryants new found love of blonde white women aside, I think Bryant is far from a sell-out. For instance, he is a MAJOR supporter of UNCF and has spoken about it casually and in formal settings when he was on the Today Show. It is because of Bryant (almost singlehandedly) that the Today Show did that week (or was it 2 weeks?) in Africa a few years ago. No other network had done that. If Bryant had been branded a 'Black nationalist' early in his career he would have never gotten those opportunities. Sometimes we just gotta know what battles to pick and sometimes silence does not mean agreement, but it means waiting for a more opportune time.

Eclipse,

I agree with what you say. I do, however, want to make a minor clarification. Silence, as I used it, did not mean verbal only; inaction is silence also. A person can be quiet, yet not silent(in action). In the situation you mentioned in HR, you could choose option 3; yet take every step possible to get that undesireable person hired. THAT is not silence.