Catholic Churches Say Condoms Don't Stop AIDS - BBC - Page 3

ThetaPrincess24 · #31 10-09-2003, 05:31 PM

quote:Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Maybe they could also make a Bible Thumper Ken - we can model him after the dude who sits on a main corner on campus and yells at all of us to "Repent, ye Catholic sinners."

Not to get off the subject.......but before i transferred from UK to EKU, there was this man dubbed "preacher man" that would do that outside the student center. In addition to anti-Catholic comments, which most ignored, he also had partners in crime with him that held signs saying things like "Hey Gays, got AIDS yet?" Those however, did NOT get ignored and caused a big uproar. One student, walked up to the preacher man and gave him a dollar to shut up, which preacher man took and pocketed and kept right on. Another student got in his face asking him where the hell he got off having those kinds of posters and saying such assinine comments. The preacher man punched that student in the face and then tried to Biblically justify(in a very poor attempt I might add) why he was right in punching the student. The student was ok,didnt press charges, but did request that preacher man not be allowed back on campus, and he wasnt.........atleast for the remainder of while I was there, and I left Summer 2001.

SSS1365 · #32 10-09-2003, 05:37 PM

Oooookay. I didn't think it was news that condoms aren't 100% effective in preventing the transmission of HIV. In fact, they aren't 100% effective against ANYTHING. Also, they are not saying, "Oh well since it doesn't always prevent HIV, you should have unprotected sex." Actually, they teach abstinence until marriage... to my understanding, most churches do. For God's sake, they're not saying condoms cause AIDS!!!

I am getting married in a Catholic church because my fiance and both of our families are Catholic (I myself don't practice any religion, although I believe in God and Jesus and stuff). So I have to do this Natural Family Planning stuff. Believe me, there are lot of things they say in the book I have to read that I totally disagree with (like birth control pills being a form of abortion). But please, they are not the first people to point out the fact that using condoms doesn't always prevent AIDS.

Oh by the way, my uncle is living proof of that.

Peaches-n-Cream · #33 10-09-2003, 05:48 PM

So there was a story about teaching condom use in a country where the birth rate was high. The instructor showed the locals how to use a condom by demonstrating on a cucumber. A few months later, the birth rate was still high. When the instructor asked them if they were using condoms. Sure enough they were... on cucumbers.

I don't know if that story is true, but it demonstrates a flaw in birth control instruction. Primarily, that there is no follow up medical care in many of these countries.

I agree with Kitso's posts.

#34 10-09-2003, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sugar and spice
In school districts where abstinence-only sex ed is pushed, teen pregnancy rates are often actually higher than the places where "safe sex" ed is pushed. Why? Because some abstinence-only programs send the message that "condoms aren't effective at preventing pregnancies." Not "condoms aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancies" -- abstinence-only leaves out the 100% because they want to lead teenagers into thinking condoms are less effective than they are, hoping that they can scare the kids into not having sex. But that doesn't work. What lovelyivy said happens instead -- they figure "Why bother?" and don't use condoms at all.

link or stats please.

I want verified evidence or studies before i will believe this.

Kitso
KS 361 times i've heard GCer's thow out 'facts' and i'd like to see for myself

damasa · #35 10-09-2003, 06:18 PM

Lapsed Catholic, lapsed Catholic oh I'm a lapsed Catholic baby and it's because of shat like this.

We live in a constant state of risk if you think about it. You could walk outside today and be hit by a car or become the victim of some freak accident, people should know this isn't anything knew.

It's the fact that people feed off of the fear that is totally given to us through various outlets. Fear is a part of life and nobody is ever really safe.

Of course the Vatican is probably doing this to restart some type of abstinence movement. Install the "guilt" in some of those catholics (such as myself) that don't make the "right decisions" in the eye of the church.

Seriously though, if we are going to live in a constant state of fear, what's the point of living? it's not fun to fear.

If you are having sex, regardless of your religious views just make sure that's is protected. It might not be 100% safe but it's a lot better than nothing at all.

ucfcutie · #36 10-09-2003, 06:25 PM

I am Catholic and loving it also.

This is what I understood from the article. Condoms aren't full proof- the AIDS virus is smaller than sperm, so it can be easily transmitted with a condom. No lies there. Everyone knows condoms aren't 100% protective against STDS and pregnancy. I think the point behind this is the best way to prevent AIDS to abstain. That's what the Catholic Church is promoting.

sugar and spice · #37 10-09-2003, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
link or stats please.

I want verified evidence or studies before i will believe this.

Kitso
KS 361 times i've heard GCer's thow out 'facts' and i'd like to see for myself

You'll like this one -- it's a report on Texas.

http://hrw.org/reports/2002/usa0902/ (I got this particular quote from the section on virginity pledges.)

"There also is evidence that adolescents who pledge virginity may ultimately be at increased risk of HIV/AIDS infection. A study of virginity pledges often cited by abstinence-only groups found that although there is some evidence that these pledges delay intercourse by an average of eighteen months, as virginity pledges become the norm, they lose their allure and thus their effect. This study also found that virginity pledges have the unintended effect of placing some teens at higher risk of unintended pregnancy and STDs, because teens who break the pledge are one-third less likely than nonpledgers to use contraceptives once they do become sexually active."

There were quite a few other studies that said the same thing or similar, but this was the first thorough study I found.

sugar and spice · #38 10-09-2003, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SSS1365
Actually, they teach abstinence until marriage... to my understanding, most churches do. For God's sake, they're not saying condoms cause AIDS!!!

Actually, in some cases, that's exactly what Catholic priests saying.

A quote from http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story...059068,00.html :

Quote:

In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids."

damasa · #39 10-09-2003, 07:47 PM

I just read the article and this is stated:

"The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV virus."

I think I'm going to go with the consensus instead of the Vatican on this one.

*Saying hello to my strict Catholic mother, wherever she might be at this moment*

AchtungBaby80 · #40 10-09-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
Once again, they did not say, condoms are bad, so don't use them, they are saying, the use of condoms is not a safe alternative to an abstinent life.

I think so, too. Maybe the author of the article took the whole thing out of context. If that's the case, then this article is more to blame than the Church is.

SSS1365 · #41 10-09-2003, 08:00 PM

Okay. Assuming that stuff hasn't been taken out of context, and priests have actually said that condoms are laced with HIV, then I would agree with all of you.

However, show me one source that says that condoms are, without a doubt, 100% effective, 100% of the time.

I can show you a source that says they are "essentially impermeable" to particles the size of HIV, yes. But as with any form of contraception or barrier against STDs, this is dependent upon proper use. It's also dependent upon there not being any holes or tears in the material. And the fact is, you can't always guarantee these things. So it's making me sick that people are so naive to actually believe that as long as they use a condom, they'll be safe from everyhing. Here's my source, by the way:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/condoms.htm

ETA: Just so there's no confusion, I am all for the use of condoms... They're the best form of protection against STDs that you can get if you're going to have sex. I am not arguing with that at all.

sugar and spice · #42 10-09-2003, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SSS1365

However, show me one source that says that condoms are, without a doubt, 100% effective, 100% of the time.

But nobody's trying to argue that.

The problem is that this message -- that condoms "aren't effective" -- is going to be spread around countries that don't necessarily have the same kind of sex education policies that the US has. Which means that whatever message the church is sending might be the ONLY form of sex education that these people receive. And the message that condoms "aren't effective" can easily be twisted or misinterpreted, either on the sender's side or the receiver's, to the point where people may get the impression that condoms are 0% effective at preventing the spread of AIDS, so why buy them?

I think we all agree on the fact that the message that SHOULD be sent is "Condoms are not one hundred percent effective, but they are better than nothing." However, that isn't the message that will be sent out by the church.

Munchkin03 · #43 10-09-2003, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sugar and spice

I think we all agree on the fact that the message that SHOULD be sent is "Condoms are not one hundred percent effective, but they are better than nothing." However, that isn't the message that will be sent out by the church.

Amen!

It would be nice if we could just get a general public health consensus on this that wasn't clouded by religious or political propaganda.

I personally don't think it's the role of a religious body--ANY RELIGIOUS BODY--to tell people what they should do in the bedroom, since it has nothing to do with the actual following of the religion.

Optimist Prime · #44 10-09-2003, 08:56 PM

Oh I get it.

Good luck recruiting the lunatics!!

Optimist Prime · #45 10-09-2003, 09:07 PM

spermatazoon is the word of the day lmao