ABCNews.com Asking for Feedback About Hazing

[James]

This is a war of rhetoric because we lack statistics. We can argue impressions all day.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by James
This is a war of rhetoric because we lack statistics. We can argue impressions all day.

Here, Here!!!!
Boo to knee-jerk statements! hoosier, if you could produce any statistics on hazing, maybe we'd listen to you.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Rudey
While you may not like the image, that's the image that a lot of people have about minority fraternities and sororities. Yes we may not know them at all but that is the image that we all have in our heads.

You also don't have to care what anyone else's image is but if that's the case, don't flip out if they state what their impression is.

I haven't been mean, so please don't take this as an opportunity to come at me.

I'm definitely about to come at you, but not in a mean way. Ok, first of all, are you saying that we have to be accepting of people's impressions at all times? Because the bottom line is you needn't talk about what you don't know about. Until you (Hoosier) have your hands on our DOCUMENTS you DON'T know anything about what you are talking about. And I don't care if someone told you something or not. What, now everyone's word is bond? Everyone speaketh the truth? So if you have an uninformed opinion, I have to accept that? Because we can talk about images all day long. Because I can spit images of traditionally White GLOs all day long, and I'm willing to bet my next paycheck you wouldn't like half of them. All an image is is a STEREOTYPE. And I don't have to accept that crap at all. And if I want to flip out over it, that's MY choice. Whether or not I care about the image is really inconsequential if it is perpetuating a stereotype that affects not only me but my organization and my community at large. So have a little respect and keep your uninformed opinions and stereotypical images to yourself. Otherwise, it's about to be open season up in here. I hardly ever respond to topics like these, but I'm ready now. So if you ready (Hoosier), bring it. We can go tit for tat. You up for it? And I'm not talking about your opinions anymore, I'm talking concrete FACTS and STATISTICS.

[mylife]

Originally posted by hoosier


If you look at the most recently posted bad publicity, the Wal-Mart's sock stealing girls are named Jamila and Renita. I think I know that they are from a black Greek group, although the name was never mentioned.

Actually I remember last reading about a "white" fraternity, Sigma Chi, on the University of Michigan campus hazing their pledges to the point of sending them to the hospital. But I guess stealing some socks from Wal-Mart is a greater offense than people's lives in jeopardy...

About the "third rail"... You and I both know that you post things to stir up people on GC. Did you HONESTLY believe that people were going to stay silent when you blame all greek problems on black organizations? What if a black fraternity member posted something saying... "Why do all greeks get blamed for drinking all the time, raping sorority girls, and party everyday? Don't people know that it is the "white" greeks that do those things, not us, the respectable service organizations? I see white greeks all the time in front of their houses drinking all day long. I once knew a guy in a white frat who even boasted about all the women who he raped. He laughed about it because he knew that the women would never be able to prove that it was rape. Service organizations would never do those things...." I'm sure IFC/NPC would totally agree with that....


I sometimes don't know if I should respond to his post. I know he is not going to respond.... BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!

[madmax]

Originally posted by hoosier
TO: ABC News

immediately if there is any hazing discovered.

Another important thing is that the nine "black" fraternities and sororities are the biggest hazers, without question. It seems like you cannot join a black fraternity without severe and repeated paddling. Although these groups have little in common with the 90 or 100 "traditional" national Greek Letter Organizations, their hazing is spread over all of us. For example, when the two girls died/drowned in California last year while seeking membership in a 'black' sorority, which apparently didn't have a charter and wasn't affiliated with the school, it was widely publicized as "two more campus hazing deaths." It was really just two murders near a campus.

Is that any worse than the two San Diego TKE pledges that were killed while pledging an active chapter even though the chapter was suspended by the university in 2000 for hazing?



http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...914&highlight= +and+sdsu#post155914

[zchi2]

Originally posted by madmax
Is that any worse than the two San Diego TKE pledges that were killed while pledging an active chapter even though the chapter was suspended by the university in 2000 for hazing?

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...914&highlight= +and+sdsu#post155914

Madmax... I thought that you knew that stealing socks from Wal-Mart is much worse

[James]

What if he were right?

What if in a comparison of male NIC fraternities versus male NPHC fraternities it was found that NIC groups had many more reported hazing violations but that male NPHC (as well as multi-cultural and latin) groups had more violent hazing reports with a greater tendency to physical injury.

What would that statistic mean?

And that shouldn't be that hard to track actually.

Edited to add a parenthetical phrase.

[zchi2]

Originally posted by James
What if he were right?

What if in a comparison of male NIC fraternities versus male NPHC fraternities it was found that NIC groups had many more reported hazing violations but that male NPHC (as well as multi-cultural and latin) groups had more violent hazing reports with a greater tendency to physical injury.

What would that statistic mean?

And that shouldn't be that hard to track actually.

Edited to add a parenthetical phrase.

I would like to see ONE article that stated cited a multicultural sorority or fraternity for hazing....

[Peaches-n-Cream]

The reality is that some chapters of GLOs haze. I don't think that it is unique to or more prevalent in one conference, NPHC in this case, as some have posted. I think that all conferences and GLOs have programs to help eliminate hazing. Unfortunately, there are still hazing incidents all over the country that do not get reported unless someone is injured, killed, or arrested. A poll can help get more accurate information. ABC News wants this information not to help eliminate hazing, but to have a story. I don't even think that this story is specific to greeks in general. I think that contacting ABC News is a bad idea. Allow your Headquarters to do so.

Recently in NY, the news has been covering a terrible hazing incident involving a High School football team from Long Island. They were at football camp where the older members allegedly sodomized their younger teammates with foreign objects such as broomsticks and pinecones. (What on earth went through these teenagers' minds to make them think that forced sodomy is how to build a stronger football team?) My point is I wouldn't be surprised if this had been going on for years at this, as well as other schools, just like Powder Puff a few months ago. It took an injury that required medical attention for people to know what happened to these football players.

[DeltAlum]

So, if you hijack a thread back to the original topic, is that a hijack?

That's what I want to do for a moment.

As a Greek, there is no way in the world that I would comment to ABC -- or any other journalistic organization on this topic.

This is something that should be handled by our national/international officers.

I now return you to your original hijack.

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by James
What if he were right?

What if in a comparison of male NIC fraternities versus male NPHC fraternities it was found that NIC groups had many more reported hazing violations but that male NPHC (as well as multi-cultural and latin) groups had more violent hazing reports with a greater tendency to physical injury.

Funny James, just a few posts back you were saying we should end the rhetoric and now you come back with "what if's." Make up your mind.

And as far as the statements about perception, I agree with Ideal08. I mean presently in America if someone is Islamic that is practically synoymous with TERRORIST. Is it true? Maybe a small percentage of the time. And does ONE act of terrorism justify this perception? Nope. If it does to you, that is your social retardation, so deal with it.

Hoosier, bottom line I find you to be one of the most prejudicial people I have ever come across. The good news is that you are at least up front about it. The bad news is that you don't seem to know the difference between PERCEPTION and REALITY. And yes, you can argue that one person's REALITY may differ from another's. But until YOU have made an attempt to join a BGLO then perhaps you would be better to realize that your perception AND your reality are not only biased but flat out uninformed.

The issue being argued are the FACTS to back up the perceptions perception. Where are they? Can we see some stats?


P.S. Oh wow. So now if I VISIT a school once, I become an instant expert on the inner workings of its Greek system? Good to know.


P.P.S. madmax, we NEVER seem to agree, but thank you for bringing that thread up as I had never seen it before.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by zchi2
I would like to see ONE article that stated cited a multicultural sorority or fraternity for hazing....

WTF? Do you have MTV?

[zchi2]

When did they haze? Maybe our definition isn't the same...

[Rudey]

If how other people perceive you doesn't matter to you because in the end they just don't know your org, then why come on GC and try to fight off those views?

While you may or may not deserve how people perceive you, in the end every time someone talks about how rough it is in a black glo, every time you see a kid with a branding, every time you see guys forced to march and do pushups, you get influenced. The fact is that black glo chapters are a lot smaller so maybe that's part of the perception. Maybe it's because whenever you hear of "white" glos it always involves weird sexual or alcohol stuff as opposed to black fraternities where you think of violence.

And it doesn't matter how your glo tried to stop these things. It really doesn't matter for ANY glo because that news headline of someone shooting a pledge in the schlong with a gun won't go away. That image has done its damage and it takes a long time to totally reverse it.

-Rudey

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Rudey
If how other people perceive you doesn't matter to you because in the end they just don't know your org, then why come on GC and try to fight off those views?

Maybe it's because whenever you hear of "white" glos it always involves weird sexual or alcohol stuff as opposed to black fraternities where you think of violence.

If you re-read my post, you will see why it is necessary to fight off those views; it's called education. Everything is not about just ME. I can't call someone ignorant if I am not willing to educate that person. But you know what? Instead of fighting off those views, I'd rather perpetuate some stereotypes of my own. Maybe you'd like that better? Because apparently standing up for myself, my organization, and organizations like mine makes you uncomforatable. At least that is MY perception.

So, forcing someone to drink and then leaving them with alcohol poisoning for dead is not violent? And neither is rape? That's "weird...stuff?" But with BGLOs it's violence? That's an interesting concept. And now I'm to believe that White GLOs don't have "violent" hazing? Because I went to a university where they did, males and females. I have a very CLOSE friend who actually won a lawsuit against a White GLO at my university for the very thing that is associated with BGLOs: paddling. And afterwards she was continually threatened whenever she came to campus to visit (because the experience was so bad for her she ended up transferring). That's just weird stuff, though, right?

ETA: You know what? It's topics like these that keep me out of the general forums. No one wants to deal with the ignorance that lurks around here. I think I'll stick to my regular posting patterns from now on.