Folks need to stop drinking HATER-ADE ('Bama)

[Kristin AGD]

The words "I think" are repeated way too much in that article for it to be a credible piece of journalism. This is very unfortunate for the girl involved and Bama Gamma Phi's. This story should never have made it past the CW editor.

[GeekyPenguin]

Adriene, I have to disagree with you. While Wisconsin definitely does have segration issues (like the rest of the nation) it is nowhere near as Alabama. I've visited family in Alabama and Georgia and the things I hear and see down there shock me. I grew up in a very snotty suburb of Milwaukee and race was never ever an issue out there - there weren't very many minorities, but that was largely because they couldn't afford to live there - houses that go for 90K in Milwaukee go for 500K in my town. Any minorities that did move to town were welcomed and embraced. Now I live and attend college in a shadier area of Milwaukee with a bunch of rich Chicago kids, and race still isn't an issue like I've observed it being down south.

[adduncan]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Adriene, I have to disagree with you. While Wisconsin definitely does have segration issues (like the rest of the nation) it is nowhere near as Alabama. I've visited family in Alabama and Georgia and the things I hear and see down there shock me. I grew up in a very snotty suburb of Milwaukee and race was never ever an issue out there - there weren't very many minorities, but that was largely because they couldn't afford to live there - houses that go for 90K in Milwaukee go for 500K in my town. Any minorities that did move to town were welcomed and embraced. Now I live and attend college in a shadier area of Milwaukee with a bunch of rich Chicago kids, and race still isn't an issue like I've observed it being down south.

Actually, this really doesn't disagree w/ my point.

I didn't say there weren't differences. I just said that some areas **hide** their racial issues better than others. eg, Wisconsin does a better job of hiding it than Alabama does.

Like I said, it's going to end up an "agree to disagree" thing. I know what I saw up there, as did Mr. A.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by adduncan
Another Agree to Disagree post......

Wisconsin is not pure as the driven snow when it comes to race issues.

Even your collegiate home town of Madison is 90-odd percent white with only a small percentage of minority folks, all of whom live in one itty bitty little segment of town. It's every bit as segregated as "The South" that you "subtly poke fun at".

But since Wisconsin doesn't have the same 19th century history that Alabama does, the press doesn't jump on it.

IMHO, it's a bad idea to assume racial divisions aren't "going on" in areas other than the deep south. Some areas are just better at hiding it.

Adrienne
(who visits Madison often with Mr. Adrienne, who got his masters in Ed Psych/Statistics at UW-Madison and saw the above scenario first-hand)

No arguments with the first part of the post -- I'll agree that Madison has its fair share of racial issues. Segregation in terms of neighborhoods is quite prevalent with the Allied Drive section as the "ghetto." (Edited to add: there are other pockets of minorities here and there -- after all, I went to a school that was only 60% white, and Allied Drive wasn't in our district! -- and certainly quite a few that live in the primarily white neighborhoods, but Allied Drive is the most well-known spot, because of its "ghetto" reputation. Neighborhoods are generally quite segregated, though.) Segregation in terms of other things is less prevalent however -- you regularly see minority professionals, most schools are well-integrated with minimal racial conflicts. The UW has racial issues of its own (VERY segregated due to things that are too long to be discussed here, but have part of their roots in the UW's affirmative action policies). The segregation here is more due to economic factors than social ones.

But nothing that would even come close to being on this scale. They're not comparable. Our Greek system became de-segregated almost 40 years ago, and although the NPC/IFC system is still primarily white, minority members are welcome in every group (even sought after). The university does have an interesting situation when it comes to race, which does carry over partly into the Greek system (although I think the Greek system is actually more integrated than the rest of the student body), but I can say without a doubt that you would never, ever witness the kind of open hostility displayed here.

I think you will find that that same situation is true for most of the schools outside of the South (and, I'm sure, many in it). Bama-type situations seem to be relatively rare, thankfully.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by adduncan
Actually, this really doesn't disagree w/ my point.

I didn't say there weren't differences. I just said that some areas **hide** their racial issues better than others. eg, Wisconsin does a better job of hiding it than Alabama does.

Like I said, it's going to end up an "agree to disagree" thing. I know what I saw up there, as did Mr. A.

I think I just misread you then. I do think that a) we hide it better and b) we realize some things are still very very wrong. When I was down south I was honestly surprised at how bad it still was, but that's my bleeding heart coming out.

[Jill1228]

And I see in the editorials, "Miss Thang" got called out!

http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v.../3f726c6721547

This is an example of very poor journalism. I am an alumna of Gamma Phi Beta sorority and have worked very closely with the chapter at the University of Alabama for the past several years. I was present at rush this year and I can tell you that not ONE item of factual information was present in Ms. Nichols' article. If Stephanie McGee did not even know how many members were on her sorority's executive board, how would she know anything else about the way the chapter works?
Our chapter had numerous alumnae and international officers present at the house during rush, as well as during the week before rush began. An international officer was in charge of the entire voting process. There is no possible way that voting procedures were not run 100% by the book. Every chapter member has a voice and a vote during rush.
One problem with using Stephanie McGee as a source is that she failed to mention that she was not present during voting on Serious Night, nor was she present for most of rush workshop, including the workshop on voting. Perhaps she did not understand the way our voting was supposed to work. Stephanie has been having financial problems for quite some time...that, coupled with the fines she accumulated for missing rush, were too much for her. That is one of the reasons she left the house. When she left, it was not on bad terms. She certainly did not mention any of this "controversy" to any of the chapter's advisors or executive board members (all 10 of them... ha ha), or perhaps her misconceptions could have been cleared up weeks ago.
Furthermore, Ms. Nichols and Stephanie McGee are both incorrect about NPC Rush rules and procedures. If a woman is invited back to a house for Serious Night, she is automatically guaranteed a place on the bid list. This is not only a Gamma Phi Beta policy, but a National Panhellenic Conference policy. Even if someone does not come to a preference party, she is still going to be on the bid list somewhere. Enough women in our house met and liked Carla to vote her into membership. She is a beautiful, intelligent and outgoing young lady and any house would have been lucky to have her in its pledge class.
This article never should have been printed on the front page of the paper. Because it was an opinion piece, the best place for it would have been on the Opinions page...not presented on the front page in order to make it appear factual. One former member's opinion, without even a secondary source to back it up, does not a news article make.
Finally, I ask the staff of the cw why you thought it was a good idea to run something that was not designed to do anything except hurt the feelings of a very brave young woman. I hope that Carla and her sisters will rise above this sad excuse for a controversy. And I hope that Ms. Nichols enrolls in a journalism course ASAP. The cw really doesn't need any more hacks on staff.

a REAL alumna of Gamma Phi Beta

[Lil' Hannah]

I wonder what Nichols' motives were behind writing this piece...

[GammaPhiBabe]

I wonder what Nichols' motives were behind writing this piece...

She just wanted to start controversy. The CW is a notoriously anti-greek newspaper. What a hack.

[GeekyPenguin]

Is our good friend Ms. Nichols in a sorority?

[DGMarie]

I'm not so sure it was appropriate to pos about the girl's financial difficulties....

[33girl]

I think that they were trying to say that she left for rather banal reasons ($$) rather than a Big Moral Statement.

[AllisonDG]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I don't agree with the South bashing (subtly poking fun is more my style ) but you have to admit that there is a reason that this is going on in the South and not in New York, Wisconsin, Washington, wherever. It frustrates me that we're not allowed to discuss that aspect on GC because there are so many Southerners here who get offended even when the "bashing" doesn't take place.

The more we say "Oh, that's just the way it is in the South" the more we tacitly give our approval to it. We all know that there's something very wrong here, so why pretend like there isn't?

I agree...I don't think that people in the north "hide it better" There are african american members of some of the sororities at my school and it is totally a non-issue. I cannot believe that this is such a big issue at that school, so for a person from the south to say that racism isnt any more prevalent in the south than the north is just joking themselves. I am just glad i am from a place where people are accepted for who they are!!!

This thread looks like *almost* like a rehashing of the Civil War and the sixties. We'd all like to think that we all lived in a perfect little world wherever we live. Unfortunately, this is not true. I wish it was, but how to obtain the perfect world would be argued and rehashed over and over again. That's good because that's the beauty of America. We have the right to argue about issues. But, to tell you the truth, much of the Southern states have moved on from their racial divides. I am not denying there have not been times when racial issues haven't come up, but they come up everywhere around the United States. It's nationwide, not just a regional atrocity.

I live in South Carolina and went to a high school that had 1200 students where maybe 2 or 3 students were hispanic and approximately 30 black students. The rest of the students were white. I lived in a community which the houses were fairly expensive (i.e. minimum $100,000 houses). Even the older houses were considered top dog houses because of how well the owners kept them up. Most people drove around in brand new cars whether they were a Chevrolet, Ford, Mercedes, or BMW, etc.

When I went to college, my first experiences were, yes, a culture shock with so many people from different races, etc. I truly believe, correct me if I am wrong, a lot of college freshmen that are fresh out of high school and haven't lived a very extensive life are, indeed, in culture shock. There are some older adults who've experienced culture shock in recent years.

Keep up the arguments! Remember this is our American right!

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by DGMarie
I'm not so sure it was appropriate to pos about the girl's financial difficulties....

I agree... even if the writer of that particular comment was trying to make a point that she didn't leave for a "Big Moral Statement" she could have said something like 'she left for reasons other than alleged recruitment proceedures" or something!

[GammaPhiBabe]

I'm not so sure it was appropriate to pos about the girl's financial difficulties....

I'm not sure it was appropriate for a former member to make up lies about my sorority.