Letters

[33girl]

This is another one of those topics where people dig in their heels and have their opinion and don't change and the 2 sides will never agree.

The way I look at it is, I can only speak from my own org. We have an open motto that corresponds to our letters, so I don't see anything wrong with NMs wearing them. They (and everyone else who cares) know that ASA stands for "Aspire, Seek, Attain."

I can't say how I would feel if our letters stood for something completely different and I didn't know what it was till initiation - because I've never had that experience. I don't think that I can tell anyone else how to feel about their letters and the wearing of them, because they're THEIR letters, not mine.

[AXEgirl]

Ok, so I guess the question is: When does someone become your brother/sister? Is it when they are inducted into the NM class? Is it when they are initiated?

Of course everyone is going to have their own take on it. I personally believe that someone is not a brother/sister until they are initiated. Its one thing to show interest in an organization, but its another to show enough dedication and admiration to go through the NM process, and say that this particular organization is the one for you. The whole pledging process is not only to let NM's get to know more about the organization, but also to see how much this person cares. I'm sure they are lots of people who think they would like to be KKG's or ChiO's, but its the people that put in the work and show their love that make it.

I totally agree with the comment about making people earn their letters. Why would want something handed to you? Anything worth having is worth waiting for, and it makes it that much more special.

[opaldragon]

AXPGoBot, I think you've put your views, and that of many others, in the best light. Kudos.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by AXEgirl
Ok, so I guess the question is: When does someone become your brother/sister? Is it when they are inducted into the NM class? Is it when they are initiated?

I think I can pretty safely say that the majority of Sinfonians would say that a man is not a brother until he has been initiated. Probationary members (our term for the guys who used to be called "pledges") are certainly potential brothers whom we should treat like brothers, but we would not call them brothers until they have been fully initiated.

[OUlioness01]

Originally posted by erica812
At my college, Bid Day was on Saturday. To classes on Monday, all new members from all the sororities wore letter sweatshirts (our rush was in the winter) with their "pledge pins" and ribbons. It was fun to look around to see who went to which sisterhood. Very festive! These new members clearly took a lot of pride in their letters. Once the meaning is revealed I think the respect is not MORE, it's just at a DEEPER level.

Erica

thank you erica....that is exactly how i felt.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

When I pledged I could not wear greek letters. When the sisters had weekly letter days, the pledges wore DPhiE pledge class shirts. I received and wore my first set of letters from my big sister at my initiation. I am not sure how other chapters handle this issue.

My roommate who was a founder of the Alpha Phi chapter received letters at induction, but wore a pledge pin.

[AXPGoBot]

I'm sorry, but I can't see how much pride you can have in something that's handed to you over a weekend. There's definitely a limit to the amount of respect you can feel when you do things like that.

My letters and my Ritual mean more than that.

[Canadian AOII]

I have to agree w/ most of the opinions on this thread: when I pledged, our class didn't wear/receive letters until initiation. Mind you, there's a place on campus where you can get letters to put on sweatshirts etc and no active could/would stop you from buying and wearing them (ahem "hazing") but I think it's more worthwhile to wait until initiation to wear letters, I was SO looking forward to being able to wear them and as mentioned many times before it just meant more afterwards!

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by AXPGoBot
I'm sorry, but I can't see how much pride you can have in something that's handed to you over a weekend. There's definitely a limit to the amount of respect you can feel when you do things like that.

My letters and my Ritual mean more than that.

I agree... but who are you to tell your NM they can't. But there's a difference between just not giving NM letters to wear during the NM period, and forbidding them from wearing them. What would you guys do if a NM wore letters?

I can't talk for your organization, and I can't talk for KKG, but to me, to get angry at a NM for wearing my letters does not still well with my understanding of ritual (which I'm not mentioning - don't worry!). A NM is my sister...

[AXPGoBot]

Kappaloo:

honestly, I really don't know how I'd react if I saw a Postulant walking around in letters. It's just sorta understood here at our school that the NM's don't wear letters till they get in. And despite what you think, I'm sorry but I'll aruge till the day I die that a new member is not a full sister/brother. You don't become that until you are initaited under the Ritual of your organization. I can't speak for your laws or whatever, but as far as our national goes, it is made very clear that a man isn't a "Brother" until paying his initation fees and then partaking in the ceremony.

You're right, nothing is stopping a NM from going into our campus baookstore, buying letters, and wearing them. Just like nothing is stopping me from ordering a Kappa Kappa gamma shirt and proudly strutting around in it. The letters don't make the Brother/Sister, it should just be one of the perks. But I'll say it again to be clear, YOU ARE NOT A FULL BROTHER/SISTER UNTIL INTIATED UNDER RITUAL. Otherwise, what's to stop me from saying that I could go to a Delta Chi or Kappa Sigma Bid Party and then walk around claiming I'm a Brother? It's just wrong.

Sorry if you disagree, but it's just wrong. Can anyone back me up here? Maybe I'm not explaining all this right...

[OUlioness01]

Originally posted by AXPGoBot
I'm sorry, but I can't see how much pride you can have in something that's handed to you over a weekend. There's definitely a limit to the amount of respect you can feel when you do things like that.

My letters and my Ritual mean more than that.

how can i have pride for my GLO if allowed to wear letters before i was initiated?
easy. i was proud to be asked to belong to an organization with such a rich heritage. i was proud to belong to an organization with women who truly accepted each other for what they were. i was proud to wear my letters because i wanted to show my association with a wonderful group of women on my campus. i don't know if you can have much more pride than that. learning ritual made my have a deeper pride. i couldn't possibly have had more pride in Phi Mu than what i had already had before i was initiated. My letters did and still do mean a lot to me and i'm proud that i was able to wear them. i may have been permitted to wear my letters before initiation, but that doesn't mean my love and respect for the national organization that is Phi Mu is any less.

*edited to add*
I was wondering a little bit about this whole new members are not your bother/sister... does that mean that your big/little isn't your big sister/brouther or little sister/brother until initation? it's just seems hypocritical to me. a bid is an invitation to be a brother or a sister. it's kinda like giving birth and a bid is like conception. from the moment your mother conceived you had a little borther or sister. ritual is kinda like birth in that they are fully in the world, but that isn't the moment they became your sibling.

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by AXPGoBot
But I'll say it again to be clear, YOU ARE NOT A FULL BROTHER/SISTER UNTIL INTIATED UNDER RITUAL. Otherwise, what's to stop me from saying that I could go to a Delta Chi or Kappa Sigma Bid Party and then walk around claiming I'm a Brother? It's just wrong.

But going to a bid party is different from actually being pledged? I guess it just see it differently - for me, sisterhood begins at the NM ceremony, when the chapter has decided to make the women a NM/Sister and the NM/Sister has decided to join. These promises are only further deepened at initiation.

It's a difference in opinion, but it could also be a different in ritual/organization. Because for me it's wrong not to call a NM a sister.

I see it (really really really bad analogy here) like becoming a nun (I said it was bad). Once you take your temporary vows (nuns take a vow of three years before vowing for life) you are a nun. It doesn't matter that you haven't taking your final vows. Okay. I said it was a bad analogy.

Of course .... I can only talk for my chapter.... and I find it amusing that I"m arguing this at all - but at a personal level - I agree with you - I didn't want to wear letters until I was initiated. I just don't see the benefit in "forbidding" it or anything else....

[APhi_Ivy]

I know in my chapter we give shirts with Alpha Phi spelled out on bid day and then the 1st set of real letters on Big/Lil day. I know my pledge sisters and I decided not to wear our letters until after initiation simply because none of us felt right wearing letters when we didn't know the meaning behind them. It made it really special for all of us when we finally wore our letters.

[PiEp299]

AXP, you're hitting the nail on the head.

For me, wearing letters is about reverence. To me, they are the emobidment of everything my fraternity stands for, in three little letters. The pledging process is there to teach what our fraternity stands for, stands against and what our letters mean to us. I want a pledge to show me that he is mature enough and determined to take everything we are to heart and become a man before he wears something as revered as my letters.
There is NO WAY this can be completely understood or achieved until initiation, when he is welcomed into our fraternity as a brother and learns a lot more than he could have ever imagined before.

[Senusret I]

I am in an NPHC Fraternity (Alpha Phi Alpha) as well as Alpha Phi Omega, the National Service Fraternity. (I speak for neither in an official capacity.)

First of all, I would like to say that I have enjoyed reading all of the diverse opinions on this matter. I believe that there is a misconception that NPC/NIC organizations "give away their letters." I hope that my NPHC Sorors and Fraters read this and realize that the practices and opinions involved are incredibly diverse.

In NPHC organizations, it is forbidden to wear letters until you are an initiated Brother or Sister.

I agree with the posters who say that letters must be earned.

In my opinon, the only case in which a "new member" should wear letters is if the meaning is explained to them in the pledge induction ceremony or if the meaning is public knowledge.