Vatican Starts Campaign Vs. Gay Marriage

[adduncan]

Originally posted by OUlioness01
the problem is that we catholics are supposed to believe that the pope is infallible. that means what he says goes. i'm technically sinning if i don't agree with his beliefs. what's weird though is that one pope can totally contradict what another pope says. therefore, in 50 years or so the church could totally do a 180 and support abortion and nontraditional unions and it would become accepted immediately.

Are you sure?

Do you know exactly what points the Pope is infallible on?

Are you sure that a "180" is even possible? It's not quite that simple.......

[OUlioness01]

its happened before
we don't follow the srtict guidelines that they did in the past...for example it used to be a sin to eat meat on any friday...then i think the order was then no meat on fridays during lent and you should fast...then the irish became exempt from that because of the potato famine...then the fasting became for those under 16 or 18 i can't remember which, PLUS the fasting was only on fridays....it may take a while but eventually the church will completely change it's views. a more recent example would be attending mass. it used to be unexcusable to miss mass on a sunday. you had to go to catholic services. now it's acceptable to go to greek orthodox or eastern orthodox as well. you used to have to have your head covered at mass...now you odn't. the services used to be in latin, now they're in spanish, english, italian...every language possible. the catholic church changes practices a lot more frequently than most realize.

[adduncan]

Originally posted by OUlioness01
its happened before
we don't follow the srtict guidelines that they did in the past...for example it used to be a sin to eat meat on any friday...then i think the order was then no meat on fridays during lent and you should fast...then the irish became exempt from that because of the potato famine...then the fasting became for those under 16 or 18 i can't remember which, PLUS the fasting was only on fridays....it may take a while but eventually the church will completely change it's views. a more recent example would be attending mass. it used to be unexcusable to miss mass on a sunday. you had to go to catholic services. now it's acceptable to go to greek orthodox or eastern orthodox as well. you used to have to have your head covered at mass...now you odn't. the services used to be in latin, now they're in spanish, english, italian...every language possible. the catholic church changes practices a lot more frequently than most realize.

Please see my earlier post on the difference between "Big T" and "little t" traditions. What you are describing falls under changeable disciplines, not the unchangeable moral authority. There's a difference. www.newadvent.org has a lot of great info if you're interested.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

[OUlioness01]

adrienne~i did read it but i tend to regard issues such as nontraditional unions as falling under little t as well. like other little t's they are becoming more widespread and will eventually be recognized by the catholic church. not by this pope or likely the next one but they will be. the church has adjusted to the changing ways of the world for 2,000 years and it will continue to do so as civilization progresses. the only issues i think are truly big Ts are the 10 commandments and issue like child molestation as you pointed out in your post. anything that is open for debate in the world today needs to be looked at as a little t because no matter what some catholics are not going to regard little t's as a sin.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by adduncan

Given the tone of most posts about Catholic anything, I have a very real belief that what I just typed is going to fall on deaf ears. Besides, there are a LOT of details that are just not going to fit in a GC thread. So this is more than likely my last explanation on GC of finer points of Catholic teaching. If anyone wants to hear more, hit the "email" button and I'll be glad to chat in private. If you email to argue or condemn or "I don't mean to be mean, but....." I'm not going there. And I can promise that if someone wants to learn something, I'll explain it but not force it--I can't change anyone's mind any more than they can change mine.

Aint' tolerance a great thing???

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

Yes, tolerance is a great thing...which is why I asked my questions about the impact of the Vatican Councils before making a broad statement. I could have chosen not too, right? I learned just a bit about Vatican II in one of my Italian history classes--just enough to make me wonder more about the impact a similar council would have today. I don't know much, but I am willing to learn. Since when does that make me intolerant?

[adduncan]

Originally posted by OUlioness01
adrienne~i did read it but i tend to regard issues such as nontraditional unions as falling under little t as well.

OK, now I understand where you're coming from. Thanx for clarifying that.

You're right, people are going to define what is important and moral vs sin for themselves, and not necessarily follow what they're taught. However, I don't think that those personal opinions on faith and morality are going to sway the leadership. Just MHO.

Peace

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

[adduncan]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Since when does that make me intolerant?

I never said you were intolerant. I never even thought it. Especially *because * you asked questions instead of assuming. I wish more people did that!

I admit, I'm more than slightly defensive in forums like this because most people assume and accuse, but don't ask. Plus, when the accusations are flying, people forget that we're just that--people! And, unlike you, other posters in the thread simply throw out insulting comments without realizing the effect they have on those of us who support the church and make it feel like we're facing a hostile mob when we come on.

I'm guilty of getting heated up too. Hence, why I said, let's take it off GC for further discussion.

I value you and your questions and comments all over GC, not just in this thread. I am sincerely sorry if I made you feel otherwise.

Peace

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)