Expansion - evening things out?

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by shadokat
sugar, name one sorority that doesn't have a paid staff, leadership consultants and a magazine, for starters. They all do. I'd love to see the financials you speak of as well.

I believe there was a post a couple months back about Phi Sigma Sigma having an international HQ that was heavily dependent on volunteers. In fact, I believe only one of their HQ workers was paid . . . the rest were volunteers. I would imagine there are other sororities that are run similarly. However, I cannot imagine this being the case for the larger ones.

To use travelling consultants as an example:

My sorority, Delta Delta Delta, has 8 travelling consultants for our 135 chapters, which comes to less than 17 chapters per consultant. Theta Phi Alpha, the smallest (I think) of the NPC sororities, has one travelling consultant for its 38 chapters. If your chapter needs help, which HQ is more likely to get it to you faster?

I never said anything about magazines or finances . . . I think that question should be directed at greeklawgirl, who posted above me. And I don't believe anybody said anything about a group not having a magazine or leadership consultants -- just that they are expensive.

As FuzzieAlum pointed out, the more stable your financial situation is, the less likely you are to be put out of business if you're slapped with a lawsuit. And as Greeks, we all know that lawsuits are a constant threat.

[FuzzieAlum]

So basically what this all means is, once you're an alum, remember to give to your org if you can afford it!

[AOIIalum]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
So basically what this all means is, once you're an alum, remember to give to your org if you can afford it!

Applause, applause, applause! Even if it's only a few dollars a year, donate what you can to your organization. Every little bit truly helps.

In addition, if you are in a city or town with an alum chapter, please join it and pay dues. You may not attend a single function but if you can, join anyway. If there's not a local alum chapter, consider starting one or join your GLO's "Alumni/Alumnae at Large" program (AOII's is now called "Always AOII", and you can join it in addition to your local alumnae chapter!)

End of commercial for alumni involvement!
Christin

[33girl]

I've tried like 6 times to reply to this, and it keeps not sounding right. I either feel like I'm whining or bitching.

I guess I will just be Pollyanna and say I wish we could all just concentrate on building sisterhood and friendships and contributing to our world, rather than having to worry about totals and houses and paid staff and money and all this business crap. I wonder if our founders had any idea that all this would be part of our sorority experience?

[shadokat]

sugar, my apologies for directing my request at you when it was greeklawgrl who made the point. She sent me a PM with the info. Thanks greeklaw!! And again, sorry sugar

[FuzzieAlum]

You know, I have a feeling this is what our founders intended. How many sororities were founded with the intent to go national from day 1? How many were founded because they wanted to improve on the other options available on their campus? It was a competitive, let's-grow-as-much-as-we-can from the get-go for most GLOs. Maybe the founders didn't envision paid staffs and houses, but my sorority's founders at least were still alive by the time those things came along, and they didn't say a word against them, but happily kept going to convention and serving our fraternity.

Look at our goals - how many GLOs have something about aspiring, achieving, goals, reaching your potential, being leaders, etc. in them? That's not friendship or sisterhood or serving the world, so to say that's all we're about isn't true for most GLOs.

[MooseGirl]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I believe there was a post a couple months back about Phi Sigma Sigma having an international HQ that was heavily dependent on volunteers. In fact, I believe only one of their HQ workers was paid . . . the rest were volunteers. I would imagine there are other sororities that are run similarly.

That is a common misunderstanding with our Org....we actually have about 5 or 6 paid staff at our Central Office, it's just our Executive Director of CO is the only paid member of our Supreme Council....

My sorority, Delta Delta Delta, has 8 travelling consultants for our 135 chapters, which comes to less than 17 chapters per consultant. Theta Phi Alpha, the smallest (I think) of the NPC sororities, has one travelling consultant for its 38 chapters. If your chapter needs help, which HQ is more likely to get it to you faster?

Yes! This is a problem! We haven`t had consultants the last 2 years...they're revamping the program, so we will have "field staff" next year.
But in the past we've had 2-3 travelling consultants for 100 chapters! (well we have 110 active chapters now), So some sisters really haven't ever seen a consultant.

Of course the idea of national "caps" is somewhat appealing, but I don't think it would work. Phi Sig is considered a smaller group, but I don't mind that...we have a lot of chapters out there, just not at Big Schools. And according to Ariesrising's Greek Pages (my only resource for this kind of info) Phi Sig is actually kind of average when in comes to chapters. If we add a colony a year that's great.....I really do not feel the threat that a smaller NPC group is going to disappear due to failure to expand

Expansion is a wonderful opportunity, but IMO, our focus she be on our current active chapters and their well-being for the moment.

[sugar and spice]

Warning: really long post.

Originally posted by shadokat
sugar, my apologies for directing my request at you when it was greeklawgrl who made the point. She sent me a PM with the info. Thanks greeklaw!! And again, sorry sugar

No problem.

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
You know, I have a feeling this is what our founders intended. How many sororities were founded with the intent to go national from day 1? How many were founded because they wanted to improve on the other options available on their campus? It was a competitive, let's-grow-as-much-as-we-can from the get-go for most GLOs.

Look at our goals - how many GLOs have something about aspiring, achieving, goals, reaching your potential, being leaders, etc. in them? That's not friendship or sisterhood or serving the world, so to say that's all we're about isn't true for most GLOs.

We were taught, during our new member period, that Tri Delta was the first sorority to be founded with the plan to become a national organization from the get-go. That means that the sororities that were founded before it -- ADPi, Phi Mu, Kappa, Theta, Pi Phi, Alpha Phi, DG, Gamma Phi, AXO, and Sigma Kappa (am I missing any?) -- were not founded with the idea of being national from day 1 (although some of them became national quite quickly after their Alpha chapters were established) . . . and I assume that some of the sororities founded after Tri Delta were also not planning on it. That doesn't mean there weren't a significant amount of sororities who were founded with the intent of being national, but I'd bet it was only around half, possibly less, of today's NPC sororities.

And yes, most of the sororities were founded in a competitive manner -- but that was before they entered the NPC. And I don't see how reaching your potential or acheiving things automatically means competition. You can reach your potential without stopping others from reaching their potential.

Interesting points, though.

Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I think the NPC has to revise its ideas about what its purpose is if it's going to advocate teamwork and inclusiveness while still encouraging a market of competition and division.

Originally posted by MooseGirl
That is a common misunderstanding with our Org....we actually have about 5 or 6 paid staff at our Central Office, it's just our Executive Director of CO is the only paid member of our Supreme Council....

Thanks for letting us know . . . it's always good to clear up misinformation. And 5-6 paid employees is a LONG way from one.

[33girl]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think the NPC has to revise its ideas about what its purpose is if it's going to advocate teamwork and inclusiveness while still encouraging a market of competition and division.

Two snaps and a swirl! greeklawgirl mentioned something similar - that the NPC has a moral obligation to try and level things out. It's pretty hard to teach unity at the collegiate level and tell them to help new colonies, assist chapters in trouble etc, when on the national level it isn't happening. I am not saying I want a truckload of money dumped at our HQ's door (although if somone wants to do that, it would be fine) but I think NPC as an entity could be doing more than what it is.

On the other hand, no one MADE ASA join the NPC. No one said if we didn't join the NPC we would disappear. But I think that was what we thought would happen, so we did. We had a chapter at UCLA that closed in 1951 - same year we joined NPC - I'm guessing it was full of people already in other NPC groups. I think we could have stayed around without NPC, but we would be a different kind of sorority. Would that be better or worse for us? There's no way to tell.

warning, do not write reflective posts while listening to Desperado. it's really depressing.

[FuzzieAlum]

And I don't see how reaching your potential or acheiving things automatically means competition. You can reach your potential without stopping others from reaching their potential.

How does competition mean stopping others from reaching their goals? There's such a thing as friendly competition. Yes, in some competitions, only one group wins (Greek Week) but in other competitions everyone can (formal rush). All I'm saying is we love to talk about sisterhood as if it was the only thing any of our organizations stood for, or the most important. It's certainly not the only thing; self-improvement is another big one, as is the success of the group, because you can't have any group values if you no longer have a group.

The NPC was designed to make competition for members orderly, period. Everything else came later. But that's not the same as saying it was designed to eliminate competition for members! The NPC is not and has never been about inclusiveness above other things. In fact, I'd say it's pretty far down their list. We are all assuming that the NPC wants us to be equally successful - but I've never heard anything like that from the NPC. The NPC exists so we can all get along with a minimum of friction and to forward the system as a whole. They're happy if a new chapter opens, but they don't care whose it is.

This might sound cynical, but the fact is the way GLOs are run is pretty far removed from the warm and fuzzy stuff of preference and pledging. It has to be, because we couldn't survive on warm fuzzy feelings.

[Tom Earp]

FuzzieAlum that is to true!

Today, it is PC and Risk Management!

The days of a small office staff is nearing and end! Because of all of the problems, they have to have a larger staff to just keep track of things.

LXA has one of the larger staffs, and it is not enuff.

Part of the problem is money to pay the staff and ELCs to keep them on the road and making visitations. Many other Greek Orgs. are volunteers who are only paid expenses.

They are just as dedicated as the paid ones but get burned out quicker.

Greek Life has become a Big Business for all of us!! Is it fun anymore?

[absolutuscchick]

Originally posted by bruinaphi
The Administration would like to see at least 2 more chapters at USC in the near future. IMO we could use 4 more in the long run. The probelm is that to come on and be successful the men's groups need to change their attitudes toward the new women's groups. The other chapters drive the new chapters off campus. At the same time, coming onto a campus like USC requires a HUGE investment of both time and money. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Expansion is probably coming to USC within two years or so. Here's a thread I wrote on it!!!
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=42960

[33girl]

Originally posted by MooseGirl
Expansion is a wonderful opportunity, but IMO, our focus she be on our current active chapters and their well-being for the moment.

This is something with which I HEARTILY agree. If you have to take away resources from current chapters that need it to open a new chapter, it may eventually end up in weaker chapters closing...and then you're just running to stand still.

[DolphinChicaDDD]

I read somewhere up in previous posts about small org competing against large org's for expansion...and I have to say, that I believe some of the smaller org's may disappear. The simple reason goes back to lawsuits/pr/hazing.
When we were a local, we looked very strongly at a smaller NPC org. After the panhellenic voted us to go national, the college told us in more or less words we would have to go with an organization with strong nationals- there had previously been problems with risk management/hazing when there was smaller orgs who had less resources on campus.

Basic point of this post: We went Tri Delta, because of their resources. The time before we expanded, ZTA came on campus, another org with strong nationals. I think the next time my college expands (not for years, of course; a promise on behalf of the panhellenic and administration to all of our national orgs) it will be another strong national (probably one of the other 2 who presented to us.) If other administrations act like mine, which they probably do because every college is obssessed with PR, I'm not sure how smaller orgs with less resources will survive.


***please note, i'm not predicting or calling for a downfall of smaller orgs; i'm just using my story as an example of what might, but what i hope doens't, happen in the future***

[33girl]

Originally posted by DolphinChicaDDD
I read somewhere up in previous posts about small org competing against large org's for expansion...and I have to say, that I believe some of the smaller org's may disappear. The simple reason goes back to lawsuits/pr/hazing.
When we were a local, we looked very strongly at a smaller NPC org. After the panhellenic voted us to go national, the college told us in more or less words we would have to go with an organization with strong nationals- there had previously been problems with risk management/hazing when there was smaller orgs who had less resources on campus.

What incredible bullshit!!!! Ummm hello....ALL the NPC groups are against hazing. What the school is basically saying is that they think if they pick a big national they will hold the girls' hands 24/7. If they get girls who are predispositioned to do that, it doesn't matter if they have a naitonal with 200 chapters or with 20.

Not only that, if there have been problems with hazing on the campus, the larger orgs (and nowadays, the smaller orgs too) probably won't want anything to do with the group, period.

I'm not yelling at you DolphinChica...I think that was just a bogus excuse that has NOTHING to do with hazing & EVERYTHING to do with prestige.