Why are there no black members in Phi Kappa Psi? Another view

[Honeykiss1974]

((This shows that the issue IS raised. The question was, why does this not constitute tokenism.))

Hmm, I though people knew that tokensim in its simplistic form was one minority out of _________. Simply speaking, Eleanor is not THE ONLY non-african american member out of ________.

Clear enough?


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On another note, I believe Hoosier has a tendency to post articles such as this to get a rile out of people (or at least that has been my oberservation over that last few weeks). Therefore, I will not be posting on this thread anymore. If anyone has a comment, please PM me.

[valpogal99]

Sometime it is good to get a rile out of people. It makes us think and try to express our ideas. Through this we learn about eachother and have the ability to influence/change/educate eachother. If we didn't have topics such as this, we might not have the opportunity to consider the sides of the situation. I think these discussions are a way for people to learn and make people think about what, why, and how they really feel.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Shelacious
I can only speak from my own knowledge base here but...

I didn't want to take up space by quoting your entire post, hence the one liner..... Anyway, I really didn't want to exhaust myself (and believe me, participating in race discussions on GC is beyond exhausting) by chiming in on this post, and I was really hoping someone would say what I was thinking so that I didn't have to. Thank you Shelacious, for doing just that.

[cash78mere]

so basically you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

people will yell and scream about why univ of alabama, etc npc sororities don't have minority members. people start saying that the sororities are racist and don't want diversity.

then you have men and women who WANT to break the barrier and go where they fit well and are forced to either not join or quit what they have started.

so where do we go from here???

it's as if you take a few baby steps forward and then take some major steps back.

the whole thing is sad

[AchtungBaby80]

To whoever made the comment that white families would probably not want their children joining BGLOS (librasoul22, I think it was you)...you're right, at least about my family. My dad would have gone through the roof. I don't think he would've threatened not to pay my tuition, but he definitely would not have helped me out with sorority dues or anything. He actually wasn't too keen on me joining DZ--since my sisters are Chi-Os, I think it was always assumed that that's where I'd go if I went anywhere. Plus, he went to the same school I go to, and his memories of my chapter (which was a little different back then) are not so fond. He's since come around, but there would have been no chance of that if I had joined an historically black organization, I'm sure.

To all those who said their parents wouldn't mind, that's good. But I'm just telling you that there are exceptions to that rule and librasoul22 might not have been *too* far off the mark.

[gphiangel624]

Wow, a lot of responses since I left for school...

I guess, first, because I feel like my opinions and intentions of my first post were interpreted differently than what I meant: I, too, as a lot of other human beings, have a tendency to overgeneralize things. We all do it, it's part of being a human and having a working brain. So if I offended anyone with my thought that racism is still a problem, I apologize. We have all admitted that it is, and I am sorry if I overgeneralized the South by saying so. I am speaking from opinion, my own knowledge and research, and all that I know. And I never said that racism is NOT a problem in Southern California... it definitely is (a lot of my family members are still very close-minded)... just from my own opinion, my knowledge, and my research, it isn't quite as predominant. I don't have the attitude of "at least it's not as bad in the south." Have you seriously witnessed/heard about the problems we have in SoCal? I'd love to live somewhere without the whole "Hollywood" stigma we get, amongst other things... don't get me started. Back to the point: Last I checked, I was not all-knowing and I was entitled to my own opinion, as are all of you GCers... I don't enjoy being shot down on a part of my opinion that wasn't even the point of my posting... but I appreciate you guys making me realize to think about what I say/post/write/whatever. We all need a kick in the a$$ sometimes.

Second, in the United States or California as a whole, I am not considered an ethnic minority. Where I have grown up and gone to school, I am a minority in many ways: ethnically, socially, academically, etc. I cannot say that I understand the situations facing many ethnic minorities (or any other forms of minorities for that matter), but I have tried. Speaking with friends/relatives/co-workers/etc., and hearing their stories that affect them because they are a minority, I am able to think of some situation that I can relate to. But it doesn't mean I can completely understand them. Same thing with the whole South commentary... I don't live there, I can know what I know and have my feelings on it, but I cannot completely understand it like any person who truly knows the South can, no matter how much I try.

Finally, the whole point of my response was to get some thought-provoking comments in... I guess I succeeded there. I agree with all those who said sometimes it's good to rile people up. That's pretty much what politics are all about... not everyone will be happy with the outcome, and I just happened to not be happy about this situation's outcome... in my opinion, with conversations like this, we are moving forward from the whole race debate. Julius Alexander gave it some sincere thought- good for him. He declined the bid- also good for him. I can't say that I'm not proud of some girls that have declined my chapter's extended bids because they had their own reasons. But he gave it a try. It sucks in a way that his mom threatened to stop paying tuition- I mean, hey, if someone was paying mine and threatened to stop, I'd be doing whatever they wanted, but I dont have that luxury- I can definitely see where his mom is coming from.

Yeah, so there went another hour reading and writing that could have been contributed toward my finals...

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
YWhy would any minority want to be a part of orgs. that make fun of them?

Because one chapter, or the actions of a few members do not make the entire organization. Look at those renegade AKAs who were implicated in those hazing deaths a few months ago. I have AKAs in my family, and I love and respect their sisterhood. I know full well that what those alleged members did in no way reflects on the strength of AKA's legacy. What a few fools decided to do at a fraternity party doesn't reflect on the legacy of the entire organization.

I don't see a problem with what the family of this young man said. The problem is that everyone that is NOT a minority is quick to jump up and say how "racist" his family seems to be or what you would do if your child decided to "think outside of the box" (my selection of words). However, unless you have been/are a minority, you have NO earthly idea what it is like.

Well, I'm a minority, and I do think that the parents' decision was based on prejudice. All things being equal, what was the difference between this fraternity and the Alphas? Both are lifetime committments. Both are concerned with molding fine, upstanding young men. Okay, so the Alphas' mission is to serve the Black community -- who is to say that once this guy joined Phi Psi that he would stop serving the black community? I haven't stopped loving my people just because I also love Alpha Phi -- and if you think otherwise, then that, I'm afraid, is your issue.

Not every chapter of every NPC or NIC organization operates the same way. Not every chapter of every NPHC organization acts the same way -- and if you're in the NPHC, I'm sure you can vouch for chapters within your organization that do things a little differently than your own. To say to a guy -- a FAMILY member, no less - that you either join a black fraternity or none at all is the height of arrogance, and I'm really disappointed in his family for reacting that way.

If I were a parent, and my daughter decided to join Delta Sigma Theta instead of Alpha Phi when she went to college, I would be disappointed that she decided not to continue the legacy, but I would support her decision because I know that as a young adult, she made the best choice for her, and that I can't continue to dictate my daughter's life. I would support her no matter what she decided -- including paying her membership fees.

I don't know about IFC/NPC orgs., but NPHC membership is a lifelong commitment.

As someone who joined Alpha Phi long after her university days were over, I can tell you that joining Alpha Phi is a lifetime commitment. I've seen this old chestnut tossed around quite a bit on GC, and I for one, would love to see it put to rest.

[kddani]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
As someone who joined Alpha Phi long after her university days were over, I can tell you that joining Alpha Phi is a lifetime commitment. I've seen this old chestnut tossed around quite a bit on GC, and I for one, would love to see it put to rest.

Amen to that. EVERY single thread that turns to the differences b/w NPHC and NPC/NIC- an NPHC member tends to say that NPHC is a lifetime commitment, and then either said outright or strongly implied that NPC/NIC is not.

While I definately commend the strong alum network for NPHC groups, it is BLATANTLY FALSE to say that NPC/NIC is not a lifetime commitment. It's an unnecessary belittlement of NPC/NIC members and their groups.

I am a KD for life, not four years. My four years are over and done with, and i'm still very active. As anyone can see looking around GC - there are many many active NPC/NIC alumnae in the world.

[Munchkin03]

Let's just remember that NPC and NIC national headquarters would be kaput, financially and personnel-wise, if NPC/NIC membership wasn't for life. How would we explain our (for the most part) beautiful headquarters buildings?

[librasoul22]

Personally I think this thread has been VERY productive.

cash78mere, it is not that simple. It is usually pretty obvious when a person is chosen simply to fill a quota. When an org is genuinely trying to "diversify" and promote pluralism at the same time, it defintely shows.

[VirtuousErudite]

This thread has been very interesting to read. Several people have made comments about African Americans feeling pressue when they chose to join orgs outside of the NPHC. Well I can share an experience I had last year as a student at a large university in the south. A young AA male decided to rush with the NIC fraternities. The black students on campus didn't attempt to pressure him to drop but I will admit there was alot of whispering and questioning of his motives. Our reasons for whispering where not out of prejudice but because as students who have been here for more than a week we know how it is on this campus. Well to make a long story short this young man did not recieve a bid from one NIC fraternity on this campus. Well second semester rolls around and he decides to rush again. Again the whispering among African American students starts again. Not out of prejudice but out of bewilderment really about why this young man hasn't gotten the picture yet. Well during his attempt to rush a second time during spring semester of his freshman year he was jumped by a large group of me outside of a fraternity house one night. He was beaten pretty badly and ended up transferring at the end of the year. So again I would like to say that the "pressure" AA might give another AA student going through rush might not necessarily be out of prejudice but perhaps as a warning as to how the system truly works.

[Kevin]

I don't see it necessarily as a belittlement to say that NIC/NPC isn't as much a "for life" organization as NPHC groups typcially are.

At their core they are very different in their aims and what they mean by "for life." You'd probably agree that the VAST majority of our alumni in NIC/NPC disappear. I know a *few* but not many alums that wear paraphenelia still. If someone is an alum of NPHC you'll know it when you meet them a lot of the time... They'll be wearing paraphenelia and at least around here 90% of the time their car will be sporting a license plate representing their org.

To compare the two though is apples to oranges.

They are BOTH for life but as a lifelong member from what I've seen and heard the 2 groups would have completely different expectations for participation, etc.

(correct me if I'm wrong)

[DeltaSig]

Just read this thread today, and let me tell you I'm kind of upset.
First off me being a MINORITY in a historically WHITE fraternity as some would say, I feel kind of bad for this young man. He kind of was like most young men going to college they meet new people, have new experiences and isn't that what college is all about. He could have just as good an experience in a NIC fraternity than in a traditionally african-american fraternity and vice versa. Who knows because now he will never have that opportunity. I don't think what his mother did was appropriate especially for a parent. That's absurd, she had the right to be dissatisfied but not to threaten her own son that's just ignorant. When I first got to college I looked at the predominately Latino Greeks on campus and even rushed and found out it did not fit who I was. I joined DeltaSig out of comfort and what I felt was best for me. I hate it when people try to ASSUME what they feel is best for others, let people live their lives the way they want, its a free country for God's Sake, FREE that's why we have 250,000 servicemen and women in the middle east at this time. I also don't understand the arguement that it was technically o.k. for the family to be prejudice, yeah PREJUDICE against their young mans decision and then have the audacity to corner him with only joining a Black Fraternity. That's racism I don't care how u look at it. And for everyone's info some of my good friends are in historically black fraternities (A phi A, Kappa) and they even told me that the situation was pretty messed up, but they also agreed that the mother was acting out in prejudice. Sorry y'all I'm pist

[DELTAQTE]

Originally posted by DeltaSig
. When I first got to college I looked at the predominately Latino Greeks on campus and even rushed and found out it did not fit who I was. I joined DeltaSig out of comfort and what I felt was best for me. I hate it when people try to ASSUME what they feel is best for others, let people live their lives the way they want, its a free country for God's Sake, in prejudice.

ok question to you DeltaSig, did you even ATTEMPT to look at any of the NPHC frats? Because from up above it seems like you looked at the latino greeks and then the NPC.


And why is it that a minority has to join in order to show you are diverse? Why not extend your hand out and have a community service project together? A party together? I have to say that the Delta Sig's on our campus did that and I love them to this day.

And I guess NPHC members are always saying "lifetime commitment" so much is because how many times have I heard with my own ears(or on t.v.) that they want to rush because they want their college years to be enjoyable. Or older members saying "back in my college days, i was a part of XYZ" so i can just speak for me but that is why that perception is out there. Thanks for clearing that up.


QTE

[zchi2]

First of all, I'm sorry but NPHC is different than the NPC/IFC. NPHC are service organizations and
NPC/IFC are social organizations. Maybe it was just on my campus (doubt it) but NPHC worked THROUGH OUT the year with community service projects and putting on educational programs for the campus. It wasn't just a once or twice a year thing. And there is a different expectation of NPC/IFC and other "minority" based GLO. When I talk to people who only know about NPC/IFC greeks and I tell them all of the things I do for my sorority since I have graduated from college, they ALWAYS ask "why are you still doing stuff for your sorority? Aren't you too old for that? But even before I tell members of NPHC, Asian GLO, Latin GLO, or Multicultural GLO (or people who were around those types of greeks) that I'm still involved, they ask me "So what are you doing for your organization?"

Again, you can't say it was racism. I REALLY don't think that his mother would be happy if he joined a black fraternity outside of the NPHC (there are a few). I know a lot of guys that joined non-NPHC black fraternities and they were harassed CONSTANTLY. Most of the time for black parents it's a NPHC vs Non-NPHC and not black vs. white greek.