The OFFICIAL Anti-Racism Thread

[Optimist Prime]

Want to know something weird? Swatstikas were used to sell bread. The company was Native American owned and called Swatstika Bread. It had a big swatstika on it and I think a little girl too. Also, the swatstika as a religious symbol has been found in India and East Asia (on the Buddha statues) and in Europe as symbol of the Sun God., and I believe later the some sects of Christians used it. That's why the nazis picked, they knew it would resound with people. They ruined it for everyone. Stupid assholes.

[adduncan]

I swore I would never post this experience of mine in public, but given the civility of the thread and all of those therein I think I might work up the nerve...........

I had an introduction to what seems to be a unique facet of discrimination starting in the 3rd grade. My parents both had families hailing from New York City--they knew how to get along w/ people from all walks of life, ethnic backgrounds, etc because they had met so many. I learned not to pre-judge people on a superficial basis when I was knee-high to a grasshopper.

When I was in the middle of the 3rd grade, we moved to a new community. This was a large yet tight-knit town, with 95% of the social interaction based around a couple of local synagogues. I was raised as a Protestant Christian.

On my first day of school, my new teacher sat and met with me and both of my parents. She asked point blank which synagogue we were joining.

"None of them, I'm afraid. We're Christians."

"You're not Jewish?"

"Uh...no, we're not."

"So what in the world are you doing HERE??? "

And so began my new life--on the outside of the community because of my religion and ethnic background. My parents had the same trouble crossing barriers that I had, but they had more skills as adults to deal with it. The first 2 or 3 weeks, people woudl drop in to say hello, or invite us for a visit in their homes. When the synagogue question came up, there was an awkward silence then...."My, look at the time! Here's your hat, what's your hurry?"

I learned to rely on myself. I became a self-sufficient loner. Only a few friends were scattered here and there, other religious/ethnic minorities who had been shunned. Most of them moved away from the neighborhood, so there are no "lifelong friends" in my scrapbooks.

I already know, this is not even close to the racism that many ethnic minorities face today. It's ironic as hell that most of the people involved were all white, yet some found a reason to discriminate against others anyway.

I learned quite a few lessons from this:

1) Anyone is capable of being a bigot. Prejudice is a behaviour, not an inborne trait that some people have and others don't.

2) Anyone can be a victim of prejudice, depending on the circumstance. People will find SOME way, SOME how to single others out. As I said above, most of these people were white, and yet there was still discrimination.

3) Being resentful of past wrongs based on someone's pre-judging of you is a choice, not a destiny. It would be *easy* for me to be resentful of other ethinic or religious groups based on my isolation growing up. However, I learned through high school and on through college that someone has to be the first to break the cycle. Someone has to be the first to not return or perpetuate the injustice that was done to them. I made the choice to break the cycle.

4) Even out of a youth of prejudice and isolation, something positive can grow. I developed a love of Comparative Theology and world history, that came from trying to understand the people around me, instead of writing them off.

I may be white, but I've seen enough forms of discrimination to know it still exists. I am Catholic today and there are some areas of Texas and the South that I avoid like the plague. (The Klan would hang me and my husband as fast as any AfAm or Jewish person because of our Catholic faith.) This is more of a vent/sharing that a solution--I don't have one, really.

Thanx to the people who created this thread. I had no idea I would ever have the nerve to share what I just did.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

[Rudey]

I am in tune with African-American culture.

-Rudey
--I was the world's biggest fan of Family Matters. I wish I had grown up next to Eddie and Laura.

[IowaHawkeye]

Originally posted by adduncan
I learned quite a few lessons from this:

1) Anyone is capable of being a bigot. Prejudice is a behaviour, not an inborne trait that some people have and others don't.

2) Anyone can be a victim of prejudice, depending on the circumstance. People will find SOME way, SOME how to single others out. As I said above, most of these people were white, and yet there was still discrimination.

3) Being resentful of past wrongs based on someone's pre-judging of you is a choice, not a destiny. It would be *easy* for me to be resentful of other ethinic or religious groups based on my isolation growing up. However, I learned through high school and on through college that someone has to be the first to break the cycle. Someone has to be the first to not return or perpetuate the injustice that was done to them. I made the choice to break the cycle.

4) Even out of a youth of prejudice and isolation, something positive can grow. I developed a love of Comparative Theology and world history, that came from trying to understand the people around me, instead of writing them off.

Those are some AMAZING words. Thank you for sharing them! I only wish more people could see the positive effects of negative situations.

those were some great words adduncan


Personally I believe ignorance is forgivable because it is correctable. you may simply educate someon about diversity and equality to overcome stereotypes and prejudice. And they can change. If they continue to be ignorant, it is no longer ignorance, it is intolerance and that is unforgivable.

[Eirene_DGP]

Originally posted by VirtuousErudite
You would be surprised. This happens quite frequently. Many older whites will place money on the counter instead of handing it to you in your hand even when you are specifically holding your hand out for the money. It's happened to me before and other friends of color (not just AA) who happen to be working at a cash register. Also not so many years ago during the days of segregated restaurants/stores blacks HAD to place their money on the counter and whites in turn placed the change back on the counter because white employees refused to touch their hands. Just as a side note it's funny how some common experiences have obvious racial overtones for blacks and miniorities but whites just "don't get how this is an example of a racism experience". I guess it's all about perception and experience.

Virtuous, I'm glad someone understands what I'm talking about...

Navane...You just don't get it.....

[AXOLiz]

Originally posted by VirtuousErudite
My question is , Why don't they see you as black because , guess what YOU ARE my friend. You are different and that is not something that is negative or needs to be ignored. Someone telling you that they don't think of you as black is not a compliment but an indication that they hold some strange notions of what being black means.

First off, I want to apologize in advance if I offend anyone because that isn't my intent.

A girl I knew back in 6th grade said something I've never forgetten on this exact topic. She, her parents, and her sister were all white. Her older brother, who was black, was adopted before she and her sister were born. One day, a few kids were making fun of her for having a black brother. She was really hurt by it and was telling us about it. She told us, "I never thought of him as black. It doesn't matter what he is, he's my brother. I never really noticed he was different from me until other kids said something."

Does this mean she thought all African Americans fit a certain stereotype and that her brother didn't and was therefore not black? No. It means he was her brother first, and the fact that he happened to be of a different race wasn't a factor in their relationship.

While I can't speak for everyone, I don't think saying that you don't think of someone as black, or Jewish, or a woman, or gay, or whatever means that you must have the group they belong to stereotyped in some way. I wouldn't want to be known as someone's white, semi-Catholic, female, heterosexual friend. The fact that I'm all of those influences who I am, of course, but I'd wonder a little more about someone who always has a person's race at the front of their mind than someone who doesn't think twice about it because it doesn't change their relationship.

[FuzzieAlum]

I think it's different when it's your brother, who you've spent your whole life with, than when it's just someone you know. It's usually a silly statement, because race is one of the first things we notice about a person, and to pretend you don't is a little hypocritical. Now if it's your brother, you probably mostly think of his as your hero or a pain in the arse, even if he's a purple man from Mars.

To say you think of a person as your sorority sister/roommate/co-worker before you think of them as [insert race here] is one thing, as I don't think any of us want to be defined race-first - but to say that you somehow managed to never even notice their race (and somehow assumed they were the same race as you) strikes me as such a strenuous attempt to pretend that race doesn't matter that it's obvious that race does matter. It's implying that X race is somehow different from your race, and it also implies that that person has "risen above" their race to be like yours.

[xo_kathy]

Originally posted by Eirene_DGP

Navane...You just don't get it.....

But, Eirene I think she is making quite the effort to. I think everyone in the thread is making an effort to have adult, non-confrontational discussion about this always timely and always important topic.

I'm a white as white can be girl from the Mid-West. I had a very liberal and accepting mother and so those values were intstilled in me and I am grateful for that. But except for the occasional minority in a class or at work, I wasn't exposed enough to them to really appreciate the issues they have to deal with on a day to day basis.

I am now dating a Puerto Rican man and it's become quite clear to me. He can drive through the Bronx alone no problem. When I am with him, every cop car slows down and looks at me - as if to see if I'm ok being with this Hispanic man. When I fly by myself, I never get stopped. When I am with him, always. When we were looking for apartments, he would call and leave his name (both first and last name being distinctively Latin) and we wouldn't get a call back. I'd leave my name with the same people and be called back right away. It's definitely opened my eyes.

Yet we still do not see eye to eye on some issues, and I am not sure we ever will. I mention how his name was a clear indicator to his Ivy League school what his bacground was and probably helped him get in. He agrees and says he doesn't care as they were shut out for so long. As he got a worse public school education becaue the city under-funds the more "ethnic" schools, how standardized tests are geared towards whites, etc. And he is right! But it still doesn't seem ok to me that maybe he took the place of a white kid who worked his butt off to get into an Ivy League school, too.

I guess I "just don't get it". But the point is, I can't. I never lived it, so I will never truly know it. All I can do is keep discussing it, try to understand it, try to educate myself and my own children and hope that someday they won't have to have this discussion with your children.

[AXOLiz]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
I think it's different when it's your brother, who you've spent your whole life with, than when it's just someone you know. It's usually a silly statement, because race is one of the first things we notice about a person, and to pretend you don't is a little hypocritical. Now if it's your brother, you probably mostly think of his as your hero or a pain in the arse, even if he's a purple man from Mars.

To say you think of a person as your sorority sister/roommate/co-worker before you think of them as [insert race here] is one thing, as I don't think any of us want to be defined race-first - but to say that you somehow managed to never even notice their race (and somehow assumed they were the same race as you) strikes me as such a strenuous attempt to pretend that race doesn't matter that it's obvious that race does matter. It's implying that X race is somehow different from your race, and it also implies that that person has "risen above" their race to be like yours.

For the record (and I'm not saying you're talking about me personally, I just don't want to be misunderstood), I wasn't saying that I don't notice race. I think everyone does when they meet someone, just like you notice hair color, body type, etc. But after I've personally developed a relationship with someone, it's not one of the first things that pop into my head when thinking about that person. If someone else asks me to describe that person physically, I mention it, but if I'm just talking about the person, I don't say their race/religion/sexual orientation/etc. unless it has some bearing on the story I'm telling.

The girl saying she never noticed her brother's race was also 12 or so when she said that...considering her age, I thought it was a fairly wise, and heartfelt, statement.

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by xo_kathy

But it still doesn't seem ok to me that maybe he took the place of a white kid who worked his butt off to get into an Ivy League school, too.

Did your boyfriend not work hard to get into the Ivy League school? Just wondering because you make it seem as if he coasted in, when there were people who worked much harder that got denied.


What people fail to realize is that BEFORE Affirmative Action, people of equal or higher merit were being denied as well, due to discrimination based on sex and race. Is anyone going to deny this? When you argue against Affirmative Action, you seem to be advocating the right to deny women and minorities jobs they may be just as qualified for, if not moreso. Also, maybe you have not considered that you might have been accepted to your university over an equally qualified white male simply because you are a woman.

[Optimist Prime]

Racism is inherently flawed. It is also unnatural. You are born racist. In fact, the term race to describe a group of humans is faulty, because there is only one human race. The ethnic and melanin componets are not mutually exclusive. In fact, we are born hardwire to recognize any group of people as humans and like us. It is only outside and unnatural influences that lead to racism.

Racism borders on clinically insanity. If you are racist because you feel that your people are better, you are a jingoist, and probably have delusions of granduer. If you are racist because of something bad that happened to you by members of a certain group, and you project your feelings of adversity to everyone "like them" you have some serious emotional issues.

[Optimist Prime]

Did anyone see Chapelle's show where he dressed up like a white new anchor, or on SNL where Tracy Morgan dressed up like a white guy for "Joe Caucasion" making fun of Joe Millioniarre. I'm kind of bothered by that. If wearing black face is considered wrong, then white face should be too. I know black face was wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[xo_kathy]

Originally posted by librasoul22
Did your boyfriend not work hard to get into the Ivy League school? Just wondering because you make it seem as if he coasted in, when there were people who worked much harder that got denied.


What people fail to realize is that BEFORE Affirmative Action, people of equal or higher merit were being denied as well, due to discrimination based on sex and race. Is anyone going to deny this? When you argue against Affirmative Action, you seem to be advocating the right to deny women and minorities jobs they may be just as qualified for, if not moreso. Also, maybe you have not considered that you might have been accepted to your university over an equally qualified white male simply because you are a woman.

Actually, I never said I was against Affirmative Action. And as you have stated, I too understand that woman are where they are today, especially in the workforce, as a result of it. But, as a matter of fact, yes, my boyfriend did coast in to his school. I know what he was doing in high school, I know that he didn’t try as hard as he should have, I know that he didn’t have outstanding grades. I also know that none of us will ever know if his race had anything to do with his addmitance so to discuss that here is pretty pointless. But that isn't really the point of my post.

My point was that coming from vastly different cultures and upbringings means you have to work at understanding one other. Obviously my boyfriend and I are in love, so we have more of an incentive, but we ALL need to start trying a little harder to understand each other.

[VirtuousErudite]

I'm not talking about when first meeting someone. I was referring to the occasions when whites make comments such as "I don't think of you as black" when describing black people who may not fit the stereotypical view of what they consider to be blackness. To me this is not a compliment and unfortunately the majority of the time that comments like this are being made in my experience do not occur in familial situations.

Originally posted by AXOLiz
First off, I want to apologize in advance if I offend anyone because that isn't my intent.

A girl I knew back in 6th grade said something I've never forgetten on this exact topic. She, her parents, and her sister were all white. Her older brother, who was black, was adopted before she and her sister were born. One day, a few kids were making fun of her for having a black brother. She was really hurt by it and was telling us about it. She told us, "I never thought of him as black. It doesn't matter what he is, he's my brother. I never really noticed he was different from me until other kids said something."

Does this mean she thought all African Americans fit a certain stereotype and that her brother didn't and was therefore not black? No. It means he was her brother first, and the fact that he happened to be of a different race wasn't a factor in their relationship.

While I can't speak for everyone, I don't think saying that you don't think of someone as black, or Jewish, or a woman, or gay, or whatever means that you must have the group they belong to stereotyped in some way. I wouldn't want to be known as someone's white, semi-Catholic, female, heterosexual friend. The fact that I'm all of those influences who I am, of course, but I'd wonder a little more about someone who always has a person's race at the front of their mind than someone who doesn't think twice about it because it doesn't change their relationship.