Ritual and Pin collectors

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by Greekgrrl

Personally, I wish that every Greek group would allow its secrets out. I love to study ritual and I'm a die hard comparativist -- it's hard to see all these similarities and not know if they're just incidental. (Which some of them must be.)

No, that would not be cool. If every greek group would to reveal their ritual, it would not be secret anymore. And, if it is not secret anymore then it will take the fun out of discovering, knowing, or revealing rituals. It's the thrill of the chase. The forbidden fruit.

Before I get flamed, no, I have not acquired any rituals besides my own.

[Greekgrrl]

It's just personal preference for me, I don't think it's going to happen , nor that it necessarily SHOULD happen, I just think it would be cool and might help anti-Greek people understand that things are/were secret because of respect and solemnity, not hazing and goat sacrifice or something.

I fully admit I may be off base. But it's still my opinion.

Greekgrrl

[Tom Earp]

greekgrrl, it is good to have an oppinion!

While we all may have some things in common in our rituals, there are things that are differenet.

I am sure each of us thinks ours is the Best, I know mine is how about you?

While I respect wptw, I ahve talked with him over a period of time and know he is a stand up guy, I would still like my ritual secret to my Brothers only!

We all pretty much have the same ritual back ground but each is singular unto it self. Mine is important to me and My Brothers.

That is the only one that I am interested in and it alone!

I may get some disagreements on this, but the LXA Coat of Arms is the most true to the Heraldict of any that I have ever seen!

There is a reason for everything and more ornate than any.

I am dieing as been up to many hours and getting to mature! Off to opther sites and to bed time!

TTFN

[carnation]

About exposing ritual...I would hate to see it done, not because I like to feel special about knowing something others don't. What I love is to see the wonder on the faces of pledges as they're being initiated. It's like the awe and joy on a child's face on Christmas!

Don't you just hate kids who tell others that Santa isn't real? I do, and I also hate people who ruin the special experience of initiation for pledges. Luckily, that rarely happens because new members tend to be ignorant of where to find secrets.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by wptw
I am already not, as you say, “well-liked” on GC – except maybe by Jacqueline who apparently is reminded of her DAD when she reads my posts (ouch, that was a blow to the old ego, but a sweet sentiment nonetheless).

The fact that this is even marginally the case is one of the problems with this board . . . wptw has proven himself to be intelligent and well-spoken (and informed), even if a smartass at times, which I actually like. wptw is good people.

Perhaps the original poster should take a quick lesson from wptw - engage the ol' brain before posting.

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
I may get some disagreements on this, but the LXA Coat of Arms is the most true to the Heraldict of any that I have ever seen!

Tom,

You're correct... the Lambda Chi Alpha coat of arms is probably the most heraldically correct of all the fraternity and sorority coat of arms. Below is the heraldic blazon (the description of the coat of arms in the traditional language of heraldry, which is derived on Old English and French) of Lambda Chi Alpha:

Escutcheon (shield): Quarterly, on the first vert, a lighted Greek lamp or. On the second or, an open book proper, bearing on its face the letters Chi (C), Omicron (O), Alpha (A) Zeta (Z) On the third, sable, a balance or. On the fourth, vert, a pair of clasped hands argent, between three mullets in chevron or. Over all an inescutcheon argent, a lion rampant holding a white rose slipped proper.

Behind the escutcheon a pair of swords in saltire, points downward, argent, pommels, and hilts or. Mantling vert, lined, or. Encircling the escutcheon a riband purpure, edged argent, bearing the Greek motto Calepa Ta Kala (Chalepa Ta Kala – Naught Without Work) surrounded by an olive wreath which bears pendant the badge of the brotherhood proper. Below the escutcheon a scroll vert, with the Latin motto Vir Quisque Vir (Every Man A Man) or.

Crest: Issuant from a crown celestial or, ensigning a gentleman's helmet proper, a crucicrescent rayonne or, Latin motto Per Crucem Crescens (Growth through the Cross) or on a scroll vert.

Heraldic colors (called 'tinctures') :

vert - green
gules - red
argent - silver (white used sometimes)
sable - black
or - gold (sometimes yellow is used)
purpure - purple (violet)
proper - in the natural colors

Heraldic terminology:

mullets - stars
inescutcheon - small shield within the main shield
in saltire - crossed in an "X"
rayonne = with rays extending
lion rampant - a lion standing on its hind legs, as if to attack.
dexter = right (actually, the wearer's right)
sinister = left (actually, the wearer's left)

In traditional heraldry, the "rule of tincture" states that metals (the tinctures argent and or) should not be next to metals, nor colors next to colors; a rule designed to make the arms easily identifiable in the battlefield (the original purpose of the coat of arms). This rule is not strictly followed, as varying shades of the tinctures may also be used in the design of a coat-of arms.

Compare the Lambda Chi blazon to the one describing Alpha Sigma Phi's coat of arms:

Crest: On a wreath argent and sable, a phoenix rising or.

Escutcheon: Per cross argent and or, on a bend sable, three mullets or, all within a diminutive of a border or. On sinister chief a book open argent, pen and five hieroglyphics or, on dexter base a laurel wreath or, a Greek column minus capital argent, an ancient lamp or with rays sable.

Scroll: On a ribbon or, "18 Causa : Latet : Vis : Est : Notissima 45" sable.

diminutive - a small border, usually on the edge of the shield (escutcheon)
sinister chief - upper (wearer's) left
dexter chief - lower (wearer's right)

Technically, the Alpha Sigma Phi coat of arms wouldn't work if you follow the heraldic 'rule of tincture'. Likewise, the Lambda Chi coat of arms as designed contains heraldic items generally reserved for higher-ranking peers or royalty, for example, the garter encircling the shield is only seen on royal arms and on those who have earned the Order of the Garter, the highest order of chivalry in Great Britain (it's outranked only by the Victoria Cross, the British equivalent of the Medal of Honor.)

Honi soit qui mal y pense (shamed be he who thinks evil of it) -- the motto of the Order of the Garter.

[IvySpice]

And, if it is not secret anymore then it will take the fun out of discovering, knowing, or revealing rituals. It's the thrill of the chase.

For people who are looking for a thrill, that's true. For someone like me, who's a student of social psychology and fascinated by ways people choose to bind themselves together, the secrecy is of no consequence to our interest (except insofar as it interests us that many members consider secrecy important). I've been exposed to DU's ritual as well as the ritual of one secret IFC group. Neither was more interesting to me than the other.

I am as interested in governments and religions (both of which are in many ways analogous to GLOs) as I am in Greek organizations. How do groups codify the values that are important to them? How do they attempt to control their members' behavior? What rewards and punishments motivate people to follow rules? How do people delineate group members from non-members? These are the questions that interest me. The "thrill of the chase" is just an impediment to learning more.

Hanna

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Tom Earp (in part)
I may get some disagreements on this, but the LXA Coat of Arms is the most true to the Heraldict of any that I have ever seen!

There is a reason for everything and more ornate than any.

And

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU (in part)
Tom, You're correct... the Lambda Chi Alpha coat of arms is probably the most heraldically correct of all the fraternity and sorority coat of arms.

Well, Tom said there might be some disagreement, so I'll bite.

No, Lambda Chi's coat-of-arms -- while very beautiful and, to Lambda Chi brothers, very meaningful -- probably are not the most heraldically correct of all fraternity and sorority arms. Compared to the arms of other GLOs, Lambda Chi's arms do probably make the most complete use of optional heraldic elements such as a chivalric ribband, helmet, supporters (in the form of crossed swords behind the shield rather than animals or other figures actually holding the shield), or an inescutcheon (the small shield in the center of the main shield). But supporters, ribbands and the like are not necessary to a "complete" coat-of-arms. The only necessary components are the shield and crest (and possibly a motto).

I would submit that Lambda Chi's arms depart from traditional heraldic rules in two ways. First, the use of quartering -- the division of the shield into four quarters. Traditionally, quartering indicates the uniting of two or more arms-bearing individuals or entities into a single family or entity. For example, the arms of the United Kingdom (properly speaking, the arms of Her Majesty Elizabeth II) quarter the royal arms of England (twice), Scotland and Ireland to show that they are joined in a "united kingdom." The arms of Canada take this a step further by quartering the arms of England, Scotland, Ireland and France, with three maple leaves added to the base of the shield, to indicate the joinder of peoples from these countries in Canada. Quartering, then, is not usually used simply to provide a way to portray four different things, as seems to be the case with Lambda Chi's arms. Applying the traditional rules to Lambda Chi's arms, a herald not otherwise familiar with the arms would quite possibly assume that the four quarters indicate four antecedent groups from which Lambda Chi was formed.

Second, as Tom said, Lambda Chi's arms are the most "ornate" of any GLO's. But arms were meant primarily for identification, up-close or at a distance, so that a standard rule of heraldry is that simple is better, i.e., more easily recognizable. According to heraldic rules, more complex and ornate shields are not necessarily better. (Note that I'm only talking about design shown on the shield itself -- the elaborateness of the overall execution of the arms, the shape of the shield, and the like are matters of taste left up to the artist. The same coat-of-arms could be painted by one artist as very plain and by another as very ornate, and both would be correct as far the rules are heraldry are concerned as long as the elements of the arms are accurately reproduced.)

Please know that I'm am not slamming Lambda Chi or its arms, which are very beautiful. But when it comes to a description like "most heraldically correct," I think a nod has to be given to numerous other GLOs that have arms that are quite correct according to the rules of heraldry: Alpha Tau Omega, Beta Theta Pi, FIJI, Sigma Chi, Tau Kappa Epsilon, to name a few. (Notice I do not include my own fraternity in this list. While our coat-of-arms are meaningful to me, they are not heraldically correct.) A special nod should be given to the arms of Pi Beta Phi, which recall that, according to traditional rules of heraldry, a woman's arms are borne on a lozenge (diamond shape), not on a shield.

Now back to our regularly scheduled post.

[The1calledTKE]

I don't believe GLO's should ever have t make their ritual public. I don't believe people should reveal their own rituals either. If somebody that is not a member of my fraternity some how learned my ritual and and used it for research purposes only I have no problem.

This is an interesting article I found on how TKE feels about the issue...

http://www.tkecentral.net/doclib/hyp...%20Secrecy.pdf

[Tom Earp]

According to our History, John E. "Jack" Mason did and intensive study on this subject. Now one must remember that when TKN Merge with LXA in 1939, there were some changes in our Coat of Arms and Then Pledge pin incorporating both together.

I know I have looked at many of the Coat of Arms of other Greek Orgs. and many are correct to what they were at the time!

Yes, there is a thing in our Coat of Arms that do signify the squire/new Associate.

It was as close to Heralic as possible but with a little leeway to show the encompassing of all who Were and Would Be Brothers of LXA!

I wont go into the smaller Feifdoms that had Sheilds or Coats of Arm to represent themself on the Battle field.

[wptw]

Originally posted by zntke711
This is an interesting article I found on how TKE feels about the issue...

http://www.tkecentral.net/doclib/hyp...%20Secrecy.pdf

For anyone who might have skimmed over the link that zntke711 posted, I highly recommend going back and reading it. It is very well done.

I think a lot of us don't really understand WHY we keep things secret, and this leads to problems at two extremes: We either go way overboard on the secrecy (what I call 'secrecy purely for the sake of secrecy'), or we don't take our vows seriously enough and casually pass information to outsiders. Both scenarios are equally damaging.

Perhaps "secret" is the wrong word for us to use, since most people attach a dark meaning to that word. Things shared between members of a GLO (and for that matter, members of any family) are better and more simply described as "private".

wptw

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by wptw
Perhaps "secret" is the wrong word for us to use, since most people attach a dark meaning to that word. Things shared between members of a GLO (and for that matter, members of any family) are better and more simply described as "private".

I've been a member of Alpha Sigma Phi for nearly twenty years and a Mason for a little over three. While the secrets -- or better stated, the private matters and modes of recognition -- of my GLO and of Freemasonry will always remain private, the goals and aims of every fraternity and sorority remain open for the whole world to see by the thoughts, words and actions of its members.

The open motto of my fraternity, Causa Latet Vis Est Notissima is Latin for "the cause is hidden, the results well done". I once wrote a discourse that I presented to the newly-initiated members of Alpha Alpha chapter when they rechartered in 1997. While the majority of it is solely intended for the eyes and ears of initiated members of Alpha Sigma Phi, I can quote these passages:

"A new perspective is gained about our Fraternity when you read the open motto of our Fraternity. Causa Latet – the CAUSE HIDDEN in our secret motto has now been revealed to you. We all now realize that with the actions all of us perform within the Mystic Circle and outside the Fraternity, our Vis Est Notissima – the RESULTS are WELL KNOWN to all.

"As you break from the Mystic Circle at the end of this formal Chapter meeting, take time to reflect on what you have experienced. Regardless of which paths you choose after you leave college, always treasure the memory of the night you were initiated into Alpha Sigma Phi. For what you have witnessed for the first time are memories you will cherish for the rest of your life."

[Tom Earp]

ZEKE, wont let me in for some reason!

Tombstone!!!!!

Would love to read is on yours and wptw's rec.!!!

[The1calledTKE]

You must not have acrobat reader on your computer. You have to have it to read it.

[JonoBN41]

I do have Acrobat Reader and still only get a black page.