Obsession with total...why?

[TxGirl]

Alpha Xi Delta chapters are required to be meet quota and be at total - hence the push for COB at you chapter RocketAXiD. That doesn't mean that Fraternity HQ will step in and close your chapter if you are a couple shy, but they want you to get there.

From working at a national level, I can tell you a couple of things numbers are handy indicators of:
Is the group always 2 or 3 below? If so are they actually doing COB/COR or do they just not bother because it's only 2 or 3. This make bring on a strong push by FHQ to get those few women. While you might not "need" them, there are some chapters that are just to lazy after recruitment to do it, or see it as a sign of weakness to "have" to COB.

Is the chapter starting to slip in recruitment? Do they usually make quota but all of a sudden they don't get any where near quota? Did they suddenly loose a lot of members, either through new members release or initiated member release? Any of these can signal internal chapter problems. If a lot of new members released, there's probably a good (or maybe it's really a bad) reason. Maybe the Membership VP fell down on the job and recruitment didn't come off.

Is the chapter on the slippery slope? This is the biggest one for all national groups - to catch little problems before they become big. One bad recruitment won't kill a chapter, but if it is a sign of other problems it can be a nose dive the group can't get out of.

I know with the chapters that we have had to closed for membership, most were not on campuses with small chapter total. One group I have worked with for the last 10 years or so has not and won't be closed unless the members of the chapter want it. Total is 45, the campus is commuter, and as FuzzieAlum said, most girls hold at least 2 offices. Because they have no chapter house and the girl are still having a good time, FHQ gives them help/suggestions and visits from our ELC as needed.

Chapters were total is much higher and we have substantial housing is a little different, but we are always going to give as much support as possible to the group to help them turn things around. No national group wants to loose/close a campus, it's usually a last resort.

I also fully agree with James and Rushqueen - I think that the Quality over Quantity refrain is overused.

I know that the original post is alittle off some of my topic, but it seems that this post has morphed into a little more. Sorry for the long post, but having worked with many chapter on a national level I had to thrown in my two-cents!

[Kevin]

I've seen it... quantity breeds quality! Maybe not immediately. You'll get a few members that you might regret. However, many folks going through rush will be a lot more prone to joining whoever is the biggest house. Large membership = success in their minds. What better measure is there?

If ya'll can keep it up at total, the quality WILL come.

The quantity vs. quantity argument is a moot one.

Quality comes with quantity.

And the extra $ in your chapter coffers doesn't hurt either.

[kiteflyerzl]

Your group can end up smaller than other groups on campus quickly if you aren't careful about staying at total.

Let's assume total is 100 and quota is 35. Assume every group has 65 women. After formal recruitment you get 30 new members and everyone else takes 35. YOu decide to stay at 95 because you are less worried about quantity than quality. You're 5 smaller than the other groups.

Now 20 seniors graduate. You're at 75 and everyone else is at 80.

The next year, quota is set at 35 again and total is 110. You take 33 women this time and the other chapters take 35 (or maybe more with quota additions). Now they have 115 (which is higher than total but okay since they got there with quota) and you're at 108. You're over total but in two years you've gotten to be 7 below the rest of the groups. You got closer to quota this time but you're growing at a slower rate than the other groups. If this continues, you'll have to do more than make quota to get total and you'll have a long way to go to catch up. Being 7 less than the others may not sound like much but in 5 years you could be 15 or more less and it just grows from there.

I used to have a better example in some of my recruitment material from HQ. I wish I could find it!

When you get to the point where you are only half as big as the other chapters, you can claim that you're happy with your "small" sisterhood all you want but the PNMs will see the size as a weakness. I've watched it go on for at least 10 years with a chapter from my alma mater.

Edit: What the poster says below is true - not making quota once doesn't mean you won't the next year. Like I said, I have a better example somewhere and I will try to find it.

[33girl]

I don't think that just because you don't hit quota one year, you won't hit quota any year after that, so this example is somewhat flawed.

It's all a crap shoot...there are semesters where there are tons of women you want and they want you...there are semesters where you can barely get through the parties because no one in the room is clicking with each other. It's the same as birth rates...one year the graduating class might be 70% girls, the next year it is 70% guys. It's not anything anyone planned, it is just the way it happens.

I'm not saying don't go out of your way to rush women who might be on the fence, I'm saying don't pick someone who would be a TERRIBLE addition to your sorority just to attain the almighty quota/total.

[preciousjeni]

I know this thread has been dormant for a while and I understand that most people here are talking about NPC sororities and IFC fraternities, but I wanted to address the original comment that included NPHC groups.

I can only honestly talk about my sorority, Theta Nu Xi. We intentionally maintain small chapters.

http://www.thetanuxi.org/question4.html

I certainly believe that there are benefits with bigger chapters just as there are benefits with smaller ones. I think it really depends on what you are looking for. With big chapters, you have a lot of programming options and you can be very active with a lot of your sisters/brothers. But, with smaller chapters, you have a lot more freedom to choose the programming that your chapter will proceed with, whereas bigger chapters have to be pretty rigid so plans don't fall through.

And, bigger chapters can be great since you have sooo many people to get to know...you're bound to find someone you click with. In smaller chapters, you pretty much have to get along with everyone whether you like her/him or not...but I believe this teaches a good lesson.

We ALL have strong reasons why we picked our chapters, right???

[justamom]

33girl made a good point about different years. For example, my son's graduating class had so many boys because we are a sports nutty area and parents held them back. Add the late babies and parents who held them back for maturity reasons.
This was a banner year for our area in terms of joining fraternities.

Quota for a sorority IS important, but being a few off here and there doesn't seem to be all that big a deal. Yet, if someone misses, it makes the headlines in the gossip circle along with barbs, jabs and unwarranted commentary.

I guess everything is relative to the campus standard, but in cases where the system is strong, I think quota is rather high. BUT, so are the operating expenses. A lot has been lost for the sake/need of numbers. There really are chapters that are quite happy being slightly smaller, but in the long run, it can present a problem. As James mentioned, it can come from a PR angle. Then, throw in PNMs who wonder why THAT chapter is so small.
It can have a snowball effect. (There was quite a heated argument on this issue about a year ago.) I still believe that quality and sisterhood should be the number one priority. However, "Many hands make light work" and finances will always be an issue.
We are kind of brainwashed into believing "Bigger is better". So, let's just SUPER-SIZE that!

Does EVERYTHING have to boil down to money???

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by justamom
I still believe that quality and sisterhood should be the number one priority. However, "Many hands make light work" and finances will always be an issue.
We are kind of brainwashed into believing "Bigger is better". So, let's just SUPER-SIZE that!

Does EVERYTHING have to boil down to money???

Well, everything comes down to money if you're talking to past treasurers.

As for small chapters... I come from an extremely small chapter (12 active). And yes, it's very hard. We're lucky to have a nationals who is supportive and understanding. But we always have money issues, retention is extremely important (every time we lose a girl, we have to cut 1/12 of our budget - not fun), and having some events is just plain hard. While I love my chapter, I do wish we were bigger. And it's true - right now, everyone HAS to basically hold office. We don't have the choice to just be social members. That hurts recruitment too.

So, yes, I agree quality not quantity - but watch how much quality you are asking for.

[33girl]

For everyone who still believes that achieving quota and total is the mark of success, please take a look at this thread.

[adpiucf]

National/International Groups are incentivized to get to total because ultimately, a chapter at total is

- Not a Financial Risk to the HQ and House Corp
- Dues are lower for chapter members
- More members means each bed in the chapter house is full, which means parlor fees for out-of-house members is lowered
- More members increases campus visibility/ campus participation/more hours of community service
- "Competitiveness" with the other chapters on campus
- Opportunities for teamwork and leadership to be spread out (you don't have women with 2-4 leadership roles, who are having to fulfill those roles for 2-3 year terms) so that members can focus on both the sorority and their academics

A Sorority HQ will further incentivize chapters at total and who meet quota by presenting them with awards and recognition.

It is a drain to chapters whose campus total is set at unrealistic number to have to COR/COB continuously thoughout the year. This happens when the Greek Adviser is not doing his/her job. If the number of women coming through recruitment is nowhere near enough to help chapters get to total, and COR/COB becomes a staple of every semester/quarter, there is definitely something wrong.

This is not to say that a larger chapter is "better," has stronger member retention or better sisterhood. It only means the chapter is fiscally healthy and has the strength of numbers to allow members to experience many different facets of college life without giving all their extracurricular time to the sorority.

[PikeRugby2002]

I'm in the largest fraternity on my campus. I know that guy's and girl's rush is completely different... we don't even have quota. We just work our butts of and pride ourselves on having the highest number of bids accepted - we give out less bids than any other fraternity and have more accepted than any other fraternity. Concerning the questions about not knowing all of one's brothers or sisters: As the chapter grows, the pledge process has to change to make it easier to get to know everyone. Our pledges have to meet with X number of members a week and have X number of house hours a week. Pledge retreats and member retreats also promote brotherhood. We also have brotherhood events about every 2 weeks (ex.'s: movie night, just going out to eat, bon-fire in the back yard, etc.). The pledges are required to get to know all of the members. This is hard when you are pledging, but possible. After you are a member, you only have to get to know 30-40 new associate members a semester. It requires work and dedication, but so does anything worth having.

[AGDee]

You need enough members to pay your bills (including filling and supporting a house if you have one) and be able to spread the work out enough that nobody gets totally burned out from trying to do everything. It gets a little crazy when every member (or all but 1 or 2) have an office and there aren't enough people to have committees to spread the work around. Keep in mind that your International org. also needs enough money to keep things running on their end, provide travelling consultants, etc.

I am aware of some Panhellenics who have Total set WAY too high for their campus. Realistically, you should be able to add up quota from the last four years and Total should be close to that (maybe a little lower because not all members stick around for four years and not all chapters recruit only freshmen). If quota has been 6 or 7 every year, then Total shouldn't be 45 or 50!

Dee

[Glitter650]

Originally posted by ktsnake
I've seen it... quantity breeds quality! Maybe not immediately. You'll get a few members that you might regret. However, many folks going through rush will be a lot more prone to joining whoever is the biggest house. Large membership = success in their minds. What better measure is there?

If ya'll can keep it up at total, the quality WILL come.

The quantity vs. quantity argument is a moot one.

Quality comes with quantity.

And the extra $ in your chapter coffers doesn't hurt either.

I would argue that you have it backwards... better breeds bigger...
and there are other ways to judge how good a chapter is... GPA... programming....
RETENTION... two years ago on my campus we had a HUGE recruitment for us... and quota ended up being set at I think 19... two chapters got quota, my chapter did not... HOWEVER the next fall... the other two chapters had lost half their pledge classes and we kept all of our pledge class and we ended up going into the next fall 5 women ahead of one of the other chapters that had made quota the previous fall.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Glitter650
...RETENTION...

This, in my opinion, is the type of metric that indicates how good a chapter is more than anything else. There is too little talk about retention, but it is so very important.

[Glitterkitty]

Retention should be the number one priority. Happy members recruit good pnm's. Unhappy members don't stay involved long. I personally think all groups should wait and have deferred rush. In my perfect world, only Sophmore and older could rush in the fall and the freshman would have to wait until Spring to prove grades. Wouldn't that be nice? I think a little bit of the problem is that sometimes younger ladies do not fully appreciate how much work a sorority is. They think its all fun and games and parties and t-shirts and pizza nights. I mean, that's good stuff, don't get me wrong. But I think ladies who are a little older understand the "you get out of it what you put into it" phrase a little better.
I know the rush to pledge 50 freshman is to fill the house and keep it filled for four years. But if your campus/chapter isn't retaining those poeple, I thinks it's better to initiate a sophmore or junior who may be really active than a freshman who is going to drop out as a junior. I understand finances-I really do. But if 100% of that freshman class isn't going to be there in a few years, what's the point?

What would you consider a good rate of retention? I know in rush we consider "return percentages" to be indicative of how we are doing compared to everyone else. My chapter thought anything below 90% return was bad. What % of retention would you consider good????50%, 60%,

[33girl]

Wow glitterkitty, we must be sharing a brain...I totally agree with everything you just said.

I know the first time I saw awards for "pledge retention" I didn't understand it...because the entire time I was in school we never had anyone depledge, and even after that I could count the number on my fingers. I just assumed all chapters were like that. Was it ever a shock to hear that some of these chapters that are so lauded for making quota on bid day don't keep half those girls till initiation, and have more terminate after that!! we had the same experience, smaller numbers pledged but larger amount retained.

I think that usually 80-90% is considered award worthy.

Edited to add I just realized that glitter & glitterkitty are 2 different people. But I agree with both of you.