Ebay--this is bad

[MSKKG]

SigmaDiva, I agree with you that we need to make it clear to our families what is to be done with our badges upon our death. If my badge is stolen, do you think that guy, and others like him, considers that as "relinquishing" it? These sellers have got to know badges are not just another piece of jewelry.

If badges are basically on loan to each GLO's members, how can they be considered part of the property included in estate sales, etc.? It's probably some legal technicality.

Queequek, the underwear thing was too-oo-oo funny!

[Betarulz!]

About the ritual robe...it is a Beta Theta Pi ritual robe.

Does this make me angry...kinda but not really. I'm angry that this guy is making money off of my organization, and that he is ignoble about it. I'm dissappointed that somehow he managed to get this whether by acceptable, explainable means (like finding it in a house he bought or something), or that he through other means came across this.

That said, as far as I can tell at things like convention, those robes are not secretive. We had our convention at a large hotel this past summer and one of the highlights of it is the model initiation. The guys who were being initiated there were in and out of the "secure" quarters several times and were held out in the lobby where anyone and everyone could see them. The housemothers who attended Convention were right outside in the lobby and saw them go in and out several times. By the actions of my General Fraternity Officers I know that the importance of the robes is little.

In fact the robes are not a required part of our ritual. My chapter has never had pledge robes until this month when an alumni donated a large sum of money that we used to buy them.

So people just need to calm down about what's secret and what isn't. If it doesn't directly reveal what your letters mean (like in Greek) then it probably isn't that big of a deal. Things like attire and props don't make the ritual.

Remember that when we were all founded there were no initiation ceremonies. The person to be initiated was read what the meaning of the motto was, given the grip, signature if your org has one, and read the constitution of the organization.

Everyone needs to focus on what truely are the secrets of their own org and focus on living them, while guarding them closely. The superfluous regalia and such is just that: extra.

[astroAPhi]

Ew, and what's gross about the underwear thing is that someone actually bid on it! EWWWWWW!!

[wptw]

Betarulz, you make a lot of good points. But I have to disagree with you about the secrecy of regalia. You take a vow to preserve in secrecy everything connected with your initiation, including mottoes, symbols and objects (which is where regalia falls).

If I were a Beta, I would not appreciate you confirming that this in fact a Beta robe.

Just because some of your guys ran a sloppy model initiation at a hotel and no one objected does NOT make it OK to reveal these things.

The description of your robes is published in your ritual manual. Is it published anywhere else? I suspect not. So what does that tell you?

Also, according to my research, robes of some kind ARE required for every Beta chapter. Once again, just because that policy wasn’t enforced at your chapter does not mean the requirement doesn’t exist.

wptw

[FuzzieAlum]

I think we have to remember that what is secret varies very much from GLO to GLO. Some GLOs' letters stand for non-secret things. DU has everything open. And as people here have indicated, some GLOs sell their robes on their websites - and others would never do that and keep them very secret.

Although I am against selling badges, I do see an important distinction between a badge and a robe. A badge at least is public - anyone can look at one, and anyone who can read Greek letters can figure out what GLO's it is. A robe, for most groups, is a private rather than a public symbol. Not everyone has them, and I only by unfortunate accident know what any org's looks like. And some if you saw them would indicate in no way what or whose they are (other than, "Well, it's probably not ordinary street attire.") Most non-Greeks don't even have any idea they exist. For that reason, I think that for *most* orgs seeing a robe on eBay would be more disturbing than seeing a badge there.

[MSKKG]

I wouldn't want a non-Kappa knowing anything about Kappa's ritual or initiation.

When I was in college, our chapter was the big sister chapter to a new chapter. The sororities only had lounges in the dorms for meetings, initiation, etc. While we were there, another group was initiating--they stood out in the dorm hall in their attire while they waited their turn. Either that was no big deal to them, or they did the best with the circumstances at hand. We didn't see or hear any ritual, only what the new initiates wore. The sororities on that campus now have houses!

[kddani]

Originally posted by JonoBN41
I'm going to get the listing pulled simply on the basis of keyword spamming, which the seller did very blatently, and which is against eBay rules, (ie; "Key words: Fraternity Sorority Society Greek Pledge College University Alpha Beta Gamma Delta Epsilon Zet Eta Theta Iota Kappa Lambda Mu Nu Xi Omicron Pi Rho Sigma Tau Upsilon Phi Chi Psi Omega Deuteron")

I'll leave it to the rest of you to bitch him out personally if you want.

LXA

I just reported his b!tch @ss for keyword spamming. Not only do i think what he's selling is kind of wrong, but he's using one of my pet peeves! Keyword spamming! Blatantly illegal on ebay.
Anyone who's familiar enough with ebay, please report him. The more people who report it the quicker it'll get pulled. I reported all 4 of his auctions.

[ZZ-kai-]

I don't think that BetaRulz! was implying that the initiation performed at one of our Conventions was sloppy. Initiation ceremonies are not meant to have 600 people in attendance, so obviously doors open more than they should, people from the 'peanut gallery' enter and exit more than they should....etc.

WPTW, you should know that. I am sure that your fraternity has similar issues at Grand Chapter. I could be wrong though.

Everyone, check your pledge manuals, history books and membership directories. Many fraternities/soroities do not hold all of their robes secret, they are pictured in many of your books.

Lastly, I don't think its appropriate for any ritual robe, book, insignia...etc. makes it onto eBay, as a matter of fact, I think its horseshit. It is difficult to monitor though. Imagine, some longtime Greek takes regalia into his posession when his chapter dies, and then he passes away. Someone picks up his estate and sells it all. Who knows, that could happen quite frequently. It sucks, but it could happen.

[Optimist Prime]

Originally posted by Rudey
I don't blame the guy selling the stuff one bit. I do blame the chapter that lost the robes fully.

-Rudey

How do you lose part of your ritual?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime


How do you lose part of your ritual?

When a chapter closes, typically HQ's will only collect what they own. That being the charter and the actual ritual books. Otherwise the robes, etc are property of the chapter that bought them. I'll agree with BetaRulz.. we had a very similar situation at a very large hotel in Toronto this Summer. The people in our robes wore them throughout the proceedings. All parts of the proceedings were open to the general public (wives, etc) except the formal opening and closing.

[AGDLynn]

Thank goodness!

[Pi Kapp 142]

It is now no longer being listed. Either it sold or got pulled.

[alphaiota]

i'm guessing it's been pulled cuz items that have sold can still be viewed after the auction has ended for a certain amount of time.

as for the signifigance of badges as opposed to ritual garb, i do agree that ritual garb is varies between glo's. badges are the same all around though. for instance, my great grandmother was a kkg and her badge was left with her estate and now my grandmother has it. i contacted her and asked if i could have it. mainly b/c i knew she wouldn't understand the signifigance and it would end up getting lost eventually. also b/c i want to eventually send it back to nationals.

as for when a chapter closes, at least in sigma kappa's case, everything having to do with ritual is taken back to nationals. technically they own all of it. this includes any ritual garb or books or anything. they even go so far as to take the shroud we use to cover our charter when a member dies. don't freak, that's not secret. anybody can know that.

anyhow, i think it's quite sickening to see people sell fraternity/sorority stuff they think exposes ritual or any other type of secret. as for badges, they just don't care. as one seller put it to me, "it's how i make a living."

shelley j
sigma k

[Tom Earp]

Brother Jono and I had talked about this tonight and I checked out the Robe thread!

He did send the BTP paraphanalia site to ebay!

It is against their contracts and am sure it will be taken care of!

While WE ALL may use Robes in Ritual it is our business!

Jono has had dealings with this same person and has a large dislike for him! I am trying to say it nicely!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Used men's undies! Now I have seen everything!