Depositions Underway In AKA Drowning Lawsuit

[AKA_Monet]

Sweetie,

I think the issue from these "old heads" is not that Back in MY day, we did this, that and the other... But, at least for me, before I became a member, of how I admired the tenacity and academic achievements of my now, "sorors". Yes, all of us ol' skool members may have had to so some dumb-a$$ed chit, to be a part of something, but, in my case, it was NEVER doing crazy things as what was done to these young ladies... Why, because, my LINE was responsible for ME as I was responsible for my linesister. And if we call ourselves Christians and/or "children of God", then "sistahs, just don't let sistahs" be taken down like that...

With that, there was only 2 young ladies, that overwhelmingly succumbed to the pressure of belonging. And insecurities abound on everyone's part, the fact STILL remains, if you walk DIVINELY, then there AIN'T NO REASON to take anotha brotha or sistah down... NO AMOUNT of pledging (ol' skool or hazin') is gonna make that person BE the functional, dues paying, active member that they dedicated his/her life to be...

And THAT'S why the NPHC D9 made the anti-hazing stance...

The pubilicity of this incident AIN'T about colors and how many letters one can put on a jacket... It's a testament of what our core beliefs and the ideals we serve in each of our own BGLOs. What's good about this topic on another board is the cameraderie of all of us BGLO's share together... And each of us are pretty much saying the same thing--so the thinking gots be right...

My point is, WAAAAYYY back in the day, my ancestors were all slaves, it didn't matter if one came from Massa Washington's or Massa Jefferson's Plantations--my ancestors were STILL out in the field... And when Massa sold us off to another plantation, the slaves that one encounted may have had some bitterness at first, but WE STILL CAME TOGETHER TO HELP EACH OTHER OUT. Even if summa us ran, most of us helped out.

What these perpatrators did is no more than being bought and paid for "bounty "Aint Jemima's" that turned unsuspecting runaways to be re-enslaved back on Massa's plantation... AND THAT'S THE MENTALITY ALL OF US NEED TO WORK OURSELVES GETTING AWAY FROM, TRULY!!! That's my opinion...

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Blueknowledge


It pains me when fraternities and sororities have to make statements like "prosecute the ones that did the crime." This kind of obfuscation is part of the problem. The fact remains is that when they die, they die because of a socially constructed culture that we promulgate. The die BECAUSE of the culture of NPHC. All of our organizations, and hence members, are therefore liable in the destruction, maiming and deaths of our brothers and sisters. Sad, truly sad.

If our founders could see what we do in their name, would they even want to form the organizations?

I feel you Blu...........but so many members are in DENIAL! Just look at some of the quotes posted on the boards. It's sad when you think about the problem, but it's even sadder when many of us do not realize that WE are a HUGE part of the problem.

[tammy-]

My heart is overwhelmed by what happened as well as some of the post that were posted about hazing.

I am not a member of any BGLO but I know how socially acceptable it is. I have had many disagreements with members about my stance on hazing. I am pretty sure no one thought anyone would get hurt in this situation. This goes to show that you never know what will happen. My attitude is "I am wayyy too pretty to have people touchin alllll over me".

If someone is responsible for this, I hope they are held accountable!

Some people think the girls went too far.

Hazing in ANY form is too far.

THINK PEOPLE THINK!

[CrimsonTide4]

New info: ALL people involved have NO CURRENT ties to AKA. The girls participating were not eligible/not involved in a formal process & the girls "leading the process" were FORMER members of a suspended chapter...this means that they have no rights/priviledges pertaining to the Sorority.

Now, with that said, HOW do we stop those not actually affiliated with our organizations from using our name to perform ILLEGAL activities. My opinion, we should sue them on top of what other charges they may face.

NONE OF THOSE WORDS ARE MINE!!!!!

[lovelyivy84]

The first thing we all collectively need to do is to STOP treating being brutally hazed as a badge of honor- the worse you got it, the more respect you are given.

You can tell pledges that they shouldn't let themselves be hazed all you like, but when they see US giving props and respect for this kind of behavior, they know what is really meant, even if it is never said. They know what happens when you DON'T go through the hazing, and that they may never be accepted by the people that they respect and look up to the most.

We need to rethink member education, and I don't just mean of new members- there are a LOT of old heads who just won't accept that things must and have changed. Point to cases like thjis as the consequence of not changing those behaviors. We need to make it clear that those attitudes of scorn and disrespect are not welcome in our orgs, because that attitude belongs to a gang, not an organization of college educated individuals.

[darling1]

in light of this situation and other issues that have been mentioned since i have been on this and other forums, perhaps a moratorium on intake needs to be considered so that each org. can truly get their houses in order. from this dialogue, it is obvious that everyone has a strong opinion on the subject. the bottom line is that these women are now dead due to poor judgement and possible due to inappropriate behavior by these renegade women. all we can do is pray that God helps the family deal with the pain and that what is in the dark come to light.

[queue]

I just wanted to share this with you all from a friend of mine who introduced me to Kristin who I have only know for 2 years but who she has known for most of her life, she's non greek and wanted to share her feelings cause Kristin isn't here to do it herself. I challenge you all to take it in and try to digest it:

I cannot write to you about the activities leading up to the deaths of Kristin High and Kenitha Saafir. There are many speculated stories by those not present that evening and those that were present seem to have no real conscience to speak the truth. To the family and friends of Kristin High there is only one solid truth. They will never see their loved one again. The friends of Kristin High truly want their voices heard. Anybody that can honestly say that they do not think hazing takes place in Greek organizations, despite efforts and laws forbidding it, has got to pull their head out of the sand. There are far to many unreported incidents and reported incidents of hazing in Greek fraternities and sororities being swept under the rug and being ignored. It is a shame that two people had to lose their lives, mothers and fathers had to lose their children, sisters and brothers lost a sibling, and an innocent child now has to grow up without his mother because of senseless, reckless, and irresponsible behavior. I am not directly involved with Greek organizations, but I am familiar enough to know that Alpha Kappa Alpha promotes sisterhood and integrity. I can only wonder where that sisterhood and integrity was the night my friend was killed. An organization as large as Alpha Kappa Alpha Inc., can not hold each and every member by her hand and make sure that they abide by the rules, but they can be more accountable and need to be a little more accepting of the fact that a large number of it’s members has taken part in illegal hazing. In fact those individuals that go through a hazing ritual are respected more then those that don’t. An anti-hazing act that is implemented to cover ass and preserve the organization name has absolutely no substance if the organizations are allowed to constantly look at situations with blinders on. Implementing an anti-hazing law among sororities and fraternities should not alleviate the organizations accountability when their members break the rules, especially when it results in bodily injury and in this case two deaths.


An effective solution to this problem (and it is a huge problem) can only be achieved if the powers that be in the organizations choose to open their eyes to the reality of what really takes place. It is only until then that they can become more active in the prevention of tragic accidents like this. As friends of Kristin High we have to ask ourselves if we are willing to wait for that day or are we ready to take as many steps as we can to expose the wrong doings of some members of Greek fraternities and sororities. We are now Kristin’s voice and we will be heard.

-B. Tate

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
New info: ALL people involved have NO CURRENT ties to AKA. The girls participating were not eligible/not involved in a formal process & the girls "leading the process" were FORMER members of a suspended chapter...this means that they have no rights/priviledges pertaining to the Sorority.

Now, with that said, HOW do we stop those not actually affiliated with our organizations from using our name to perform ILLEGAL activities. My opinion, we should sue them on top of what other charges they may face.

NONE OF THOSE WORDS ARE MINE!!!!!

Here is an article...

Local News

Police say no hazing in 2 drownings
PLAYA DEL REY: Two women who drowned weren't involved in a sorority. A mother has suspicions.

By Josh Grossberg
DAILY BREEZE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------










Two women drowned late Monday in rough waters off Playa del Rey in what one of the victim’s mothers says may have been a sorority hazing ritual. But Los Angeles police said late Tuesday that no hazing was involved.


Denying reports circulated earlier in the day, LAPD media relations officer Jason Lee said: “There was no hazing. No one was tied up or blindfolded — that information was not true.


“A bunch of girls were out in the water and unfortunately, sadly, these two girls were swept out,” he said.


Kenitha Saafir, 24, of Compton and Kristin High, 22, of Los Angeles went to Dockweiler State Beach with some friends about 11:30 p.m. Monday, according to police. Police were first notified when they received reports of screaming.


“When police got there, they found four witnesses who said two friends had gone into the ocean,” said Los Angeles police media relations officer Eduardo Funes. “Officers took off their leather equipment belts and boots and dove into the dark ocean. After a few minutes, they found the floating bodies of the two victims.”


Police and Los Angeles city fire crews attempted life-saving measures, but the women were dead at the scene, Funes said.


Although the incident is being investigated as an accidental drowning, High’s mother said she suspected the women died while participating in a sorority initiation rite. Both women were students at California State University, Los Angeles.


High, mother of a 2-year-old son, had been undergoing an initiation rite for the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority, said Pat Fargas in a television interview.


“She’s crying back from her death to say stop this hazing,” Fargas said.


Fargas alleged the women had been undergoing initiation rituals for weeks and had been pushed into the water blindfolded and with their hands tied, according to KCAL Channel 9.


“I tried to talk to all of them this weekend and said stop it, and I’m gonna call and report this, and now it’s too late,” she said.


Betty James, the executive director of the sorority, said she was looking into the matter.


“The sorority expresses its condolences to the families and we’ll cooperate with the authorities in their investigation,” she said.”


Alpha Kappa Alpha has an anti-hazing policy adopted two years ago by the National Pan-Hellenic Council Inc., which includes representatives of nine historically black fraternities and sororities.


The policy calls for holding people who engage in hazing “personally liable to the victim and to answer to the law and the organization,” according to the Alpha Kappa Alpha Web site.


But a Cal State Los Angeles official said the sorority is not active on the campus.


“I think there’s some misinformation,” said spokeswoman Carol Selkin. “There’s no official chapter of Alpha Kappa Alpha on the Cal State (Los Angeles) campus. This is a commuter campus. (Sororities) are not a big part of campus life.”


Selkin said the two women were students in good standing.


“We’re tremendously saddened by the loss of these students and we extend our deepest condolences to their families,” she said.


Whatever the women were doing in the water, they couldn’t have picked a worse time. Because of a tropical storm in Mexico, the waters were rough. Surf was 4 to 6 feet and there were riptides, lifeguards said.


“We had a good south swell coming in the past couple of days,” said Los Angeles County lifeguard Capt. David Story. “That particular area of Dockweiler was picking it up. It was dangerous even for an experienced swimmer.”


City News Service contributed to this article.





So no, those words were not that of CT4.

[CrimsonTide4]

September 14, 2002

Drownings Raise Hazing Questions


Dispute: Police see no sign of crime in two deaths. But others fear the beach tragedy resulted from pledging ritual at black sorority.

By SANDY BANKS and JILL LEOVY, TIMES STAFF WRITERS

The late-night drownings of two college students this week in rough surf at Dockweiler State Beach appear to have been accidental, police said Friday, but African American sorority and fraternity members are agonizing over the possibility that the women died inadvertently during a hazing ritual for a venerated black sorority.

Kenitha Saafir, 24, of Compton and Kristin High, 22, both seniors at Cal State L.A., drowned in heavy surf late Monday night. They were at the beach with five other college women--three of them reportedly members of the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority, and the other two, like High and Saafir, pledges aspiring to join.

Police said Friday that they had no evidence of criminal wrongdoing and had believed survivors' accounts that they were at the beach to exercise. There were no signs that the deaths were related to the use of alcohol, coercion, reckless endangerment or other criminal acts, said a Los Angeles Police Department spokesman, Sgt. John Pasquariello.
Hazing is a misdemeanor defined under state law as any act "that causes or is likely to cause bodily danger, physical harm or personal degradation or disgrace resulting in physical or mental harm" to anyone involved in an initiation rite for a student organization.

Several veterans of black fraternities and sororities don't believe that the women--college students juggling jobs and families--were exercising late at night on a beach. Forced calisthenics are a common ritual, they said, and sending pledges blindfolded into the ocean is a staple of West Coast pledge routines.
The group that the two drowning victims were reported to be pledging is the nation's oldest black sorority, with a long list of famous members, including Toni Morrison, Marian Anderson, Maya Angelou and Rosa Parks.

Alpha Kappa Alpha has 900 chapters nationwide, though there are none affiliated with Cal State L.A., where Saafir was a studio art major and High, the mother of a 2-year-old boy, was a business major.
A member of High's family said they had been pledging through an underground chapter.
Betty N. James, executive director of the Chicago-based sorority, declined to comment beyond a prepared statement: "The sorority expresses its condolences to the families and will cooperate with authorities in their investigation."

For years, the sorority, like the rest of the nine black Greek organizations, has expressly forbidden hazing in any form, including "paddling, creative or excessive fatigue, physical or psychological shock or morally degrading or humiliating activities."

At a candlelight vigil Thursday for the two women, Lawrence Ross Jr., whose book, "The Divine Nine," is considered the definitive volume on black Greek life, urged more than 100 people to use the deaths as a call to end hazing. "Without a revolution in our ranks, Kenitha and Kristin have died in vain ... while trying to be one of us, an African American fraternal member," he said.

Pledges don't have to be bound or forced into the water or up a tree, said Ross, who pledged Alpha Phi Alpha at UC Berkeley and travels the country speaking about the menace of hazing. "Young men and women go willingly to whatever ends they're told to go because they want to be part of something, because that's how much it means."

Ross said wade-into-the-ocean rituals typically require blindfolded pledges to make their way through the waves to a leader, who stands in the water urging them on. It is explained as a way to show trust.
"The young people are quick to say, 'It's not hazing; it's pledging,' " he said. "But at what point does it become hazing--when the blindfolds go on, when the water reaches their knees, when the waves knock them under and they can't breathe? Or when they drown and the policeman pulls them out?"

LAPD Capt. Ken Hillman, who was at Dockweiler on Monday night, said survivors told police they had gone to the beach to run and to perform calisthenics. Police first spotted them about 10 p.m., running in orderly lines across the beach.

Even though the beach was closed, police said they did not question the women because they seemed to be engaged in an organized exercise.

The waves were as high as 10 feet, and the riptide was strong enough to drag swimmers 300 yards out to sea. Witnesses told police one of the women appeared to have been knocked down by a swell, then pulled under. The other apparently tried to save her, and both were swept away.

High's family said she was a strong swimmer. Saafir's family could not be reached.
Dispatchers received a 911 emergency call at 11:22 p.m., reporting a loud commotion, possibly a party, at the beach, which is west of Los Angeles International Airport. A minute later a second call reported a woman screaming for help.

When police arrived three minutes later, they could see two bodies being tossed in the surf about 50 yards from the beach. Without pausing to remove their shoes, guns or 35-pound utility belts, LAPD Officers Robert Espinoza and Charles Rodriguez plunged into the surf, pulled the women out and tried to revive them.

Investigators said they don't know why the women entered the water. Both were wearing sweatpants, suggesting they had not intended to swim.
At a memorial Friday night in Compton for High, relatives assembled before the service to express anger. In the days before she died, High had told her family of unpleasant pledging incidents she had experienced, said their attorney, Mansfield Collins. Relatives said they are particularly angry that police saw the group on the beach after public hours and did not tell the women to leave. And the police conclusion that sorority rituals weren't involved is baffling, said High's mother, Patricia Fargas.

"I cannot understand anyone coming to facts about the truth by hearing only half a story," she said.
Grief took over during the memorial as home videos showed Kristin in high school cap and gown, then happily pregnant, and later alight with joy beside her fiance, Holman Arthurs, and their baby.

"She was the personification of beauty, of elegance, of intelligence," Arthurs said. "She was the love of my life."

More than 40 states have outlawed hazing. Large financial settlements have caught the attention of Greek organizations and their college sponsors, leading many universities to ban the groups outright. More than 80 pledges have died in pledge activities in the last 12 years during rites that involved binge drinking, beatings and extreme physical exertion.
Hazing is difficult to eradicate, in part because of a code of silence among pledges and an ethos that makes surviving the rigors of pledging a badge of honor among black fraternities and sororities.

"You want to go through what your brothers and sisters have gone through. That's the bond," said one young woman, who pledged Alpha Kappa Alpha eight years ago and later helped supervise her chapter's underground pledge program.

At Thursday's beachside memorial, exhortations to end hazing drew a smattering of polite applause from the gathering of fraternity and sorority members. Afterward they gathered in groups and spoke of their desire to pay their respects to the families but their unwillingness to share the blame.

"Whatever happened, it's not our business," one fraternity member said. "We're not here to place blame. We're a private organization. We have our secret rituals; they have theirs. This is not about the end of pledging."

Ross said that idea threatens the lifeblood of black fraternal groups, long considered the incubators for black American leadership. Each of the nine groups boasts an impressive membership roster that spans the spectrum from entertainment to academia and politics, from Bill Cosby to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Aretha Franklin to W.E.B. Du Bois and Arthur Ashe.
The organizations promote academic achievement and donate millions to scholarships.

But the increasing toll of deaths and injuries among the nine sororities and fraternities has led their national leadership to agree that survival is in question without reform.

"You know what's ridiculous?" Ross said. "We invest all this time and money to get these precious people to go to college, then we kill them. You can have fraternal clubs; you can have secret rituals. But you can't kill people. It's as simple as that."

[AKA2D '91]

Ok, I have been incognito for a mi-nute and I have read so much of this stuff, I finally had to say something.

I basically just want to get to what the real issus is at hand. TWO WOMEN ARE DEAD!!!!! Hello, do I need to repeat that, TWO YOUNG BLACK, COLLEGE-EDUCATED WOMEN, (one a mother) ARE DEAD!!!


So instead of pointing fingers and trying to explain why this continues to exist and whose fault it is, let's try to find a solution. Yes we (D9) have rules regarding hazing and MI but unfortunately as we have witnessed with this tragedy, folks don't always follow the rules.

So the question remains, "WHAT CAN WE AS MEMBERS AND EVEN PROSPECTS DO TO END THIS TYPE OF HAZING FROM CONTINUING?"

I don't expect anyone to have the answers right now. I know that everyone has expressed opinions and feelings on similar topics since this has happened. I just want to know what we can do NOW to let folks know this is a serious SITUATION we have in our hands. I guess I'm just tired of the conversation and ready for some action.

And jus to throw in my 13 cents, I don't care what anyone says, this WAS A HAZING AT IT'S WORSE!!! It's not rocket science ladies and gentlemen, look at the clues.

1. Group of black women were found at the beach Monday night (11pm) supposively exercising. Who the hell exercises that late at night, especially black women by the water. Come on now, let's be realistic. Weren't they in school, shouldn't they have been studying??? Also, according to the LA Times, the park was closed so they had no business being there in the first place.

2. When the police pulled them out of the water they were found with sweats on. HELLO, I don't live in Cali and I'm sure it gets cool at night but I'm on the east coast and I haven't had to pull the sweats out yet (though the temperature has been funny lately).

Bottomline, of course the police are not going to accuse anyone of hazing becasue they don't understand the history or details of underground pledging and if it's not something visible (bruises, gunshot wound, something), then they don't have hardcore evidence they need to convict someone of this crime. So what they are depending on are folks to tell them what took place at that beach and why TWO WOMEN were found DEAD after pulling them out of the water late Monday night.

The UNFORTUNATE fact still remains that the CODE OF SILENCE in underground pledging continues to keep those from speaking out and it won't surprise me if we hear of another hazing case in the near future.

As long as folks continue to believe that they have to submit themselves to this type of naive and ignorant stupidity, in order to belong, these types of "processes" will never stop.

Sorry so long, it's been a while since I've posted and I just had to let it out.

[sphinxpoet]

I am gonna say somthing that is really unpopular. These girls did not have to die! EVERYONE even the 2 young ladies, God bless thier souls, themselves share in the blame. People have choices and they had to know what they were doing was illegal. We have to change the MIP for the better. No process will satisfy everyone but the process should train all of us to be good members of our orgs. Also unfortunatly all of us here can see something went on BUT we are not 100% sure what really happened. Do we know if these girls were pushed into the water, walked into the water or got swept up in a tide. Always remember in America it is what you can prove not what really happened(Right or wrong). AKA2D is right all this anger will not change anything because 6-12 months from now we will be talking about another hazing incident with another org. PLEASE We need to work together to bring a process that teaches and not injures. A weekend is not enough to IMO to teach someone about Alpha but I also don't feel that death teaches anyone anything about Alpha. No one goes into the process, Big Bro/Sis trying to kill someone. If they do then they are viruses in the world that must be erradicated. But these girls died cause of bad decisions on everyone's part. Let us be better and make sure that in the future we make great decisions about the process and change it to work with our each individual and dynamic org personalities.

Sphinxpoet

[AKA_Monet]

Like I said earlier... There is NO reason not to make the "transition" into a member of our illustrious organizations a "family affair"... Meaning... Allow responsible parties for the inductees to attend some MI events--such as a "reception" perhaps??? I dunno... The whole concept of Rush is either gonna havta be eradicated or drastically changed, 'cuz the way it is now, Rushing ain't workin' for folks... I.e. These girls would have walked into a Rush when the chapter was reinstated, automatically KNOWING they are members of the organization, and haven't a clue about our symbols nor their meanings!!! It's as if these girls were "automatically guarenteed" membership 'cuz they went thru some (and I MUST curse here) BULLSHIT!!! Oh, and they full fledged-Pink and Green members... Whatever...

I know that sometimes our orgs have their differences, but that is okay 'cuz competition is a positive thing... However, note comparisions may need to be considered... ESPECIALLY out in Cali!!! I know when I was becoming a member when above ground pledging was legal, members from other organizations would often put me and my fellow line sisters in check... Not because they wanted to assert their superiority, but 'cuz they knew it would be for the best for all of us...

YES, when we take our vows to become members, we are now new creatures within society. However, over the years, making the transitions into new members carrying societal responsibilities has waned... I am not say all new members, but more often than not...

Another item is can we really go back to submitting invitations for membership to join organizations as undergraduates? Really, that is one of those nuances that is hard to distinguish the morality... On the one hand we do not want to discriminate, but on the other, keeping that idea "pre-selects" members--where "background" checks can be done... We can always have a bidding process like the IFC and NPC...

Those are my suggested actions. I dunno if they'll something we want, but the way we have it now, gots ta change...

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
The wake up call is that hazing, the divisions that intake has caused in organizations and chapters, lawsuits, and the lustre of being Greek, has all gotten worse since the elimination of above ground pledging. Contrary to popular belief, pledging was much safer 15 to 20 years ago.

I must respectfully diagree with this statement. Pledging was NOT safer 15-20 years ago when it was "above ground" because "under ground" hazing still occured. The difference between now and then is the technology that makes the reporting of it more widespread now. We just didn't hear about it then the way we do now and in fact situations were purposely kept quiet. There were deaths, maimings, etc. then that led to the abolishment of pledging. HBCUs were threatening the removal of all BGLOs.

My point is really this--as long as you have hazing, it does not matter whether the process is called pledging, MIP, or whatever. It does not matter if the process is one day, three weeks or six months. It does not matter if Intake is done nationally, regionally or locally. These situations will continue to happen.

And I agree with your statement that there is really nothing the national orgs can do to stop it as long as there are people willing and ready (on both sides) to get their haze on.

[ZTAMiami]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/09/23/so...ath/index.html

[Gingkoba]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ladygreek
[B]

I must respectfully diagree with this statement. Pledging was NOT safer 15-20 years ago when it was "above ground" because "under ground" hazing still occured. The difference between now and then is the technology that makes the reporting of it more widespread now. We just didn't hear about it then the way we do now and in fact situations were purposely kept quiet. There were deaths, maimings, etc. then that led to the abolishment of pledging. HBCUs were threatening the removal of all BGLOs.

I agree with you 100%. When I started college in 1987, the chapter of a sorority which i wont name, on my campus, was serving out a suspension for something that was done to the pledgees two years before. This is during the above ground pledge process so I dont believe changing the MIP Process is going to do anything?