Abortion and Mens Rights - Page 3

Professor · #31 08-08-2002, 04:20 PM

True, and as an ombudsman for health and human services i also hear dead beat mom - - - either way it is loss on both accounts.

Quote:

Originally posted by thesweetestone

Duh! Women do it everyday! Ever heard the term "dead beat dad?"

Swamp Thang · #32 08-09-2002, 08:17 AM

Straight BOS.. did you miss the Subject Line?

OneOneTwo · #33 08-10-2002, 12:47 AM

READER's NOTE: I (we - the four +/- guys that share this name) have read most of the posts on this discussion and I (certain moderators know who "the MAIN poster" is) will post on this individually and not collectively.

Before it even gets to this level, I tell ERE'woman that slepth with me what the deal is:

1 - THOU shall tell me if you get pregnant cause I have a right to know that it happened!
2 - THOU SHALL NOT GET AN ABORTION!
3 - THOU is against abortion regardless of the situation because it is a BLESSING and not a CURSE to bring life into THIS world!
4 - If you do not want to keep the baby, then all you got to do is carry it for six to nine months AND I WILL TAKE CARE OF THE REST WITH OR WITHOUT YOU!
5 - If by chance you pull one over me and get one anyway; don't ever speak to me again cause that is the one thing that would make me kick a woman's ASS (cause I have a right to defend my child, born or not)!
6 - If you can't get with rules 1-5, then me and you don't have no business being with one another... CASE CLOSED!

I say all this to say that the problem is with the decision to sleep (ya'll know what I mean) in the same bed in the first place without knowing who you sleep with. If one person is okay with killin' babies and the other is not, common sense should dictate that they shouldn't be sleeping together in the first place. But sometimes when you in that state of mind, you not thinking clearly.

In this day and age where folks complain about men and child support, I am supprised that one would DENY a man any kind of rights. Having said that a child is MAN's responsibility morally and legally. A REAL MAN would take care of a baby(fetus is a baby) before it is born and after it is born. So if the man wants to take care of the baby by himself, then by all means let him... especially if he is willing to fight for it.

To flip the script, how come it is right for GIRLS (fake women) to get abortions when they don't want the baby but it is wrong for BOYS (fake men) to quit paying child support when they don't want to take care of the baby. Virtually both of these idiots (again for lack of a better term) did the same thing, which was abandon the child and that action can cause both of them to kill it.

I will have to speak more on this once I get settled in from moving back to campus.

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RedefinedDiva · #34 08-10-2002, 05:30 PM

I speak for MYSELF when I say that I do not (particularly) agree with abortion, however, a woman has to right to have one. Period. Point blank. The topic at hand is if anyone can force a woman to carry a baby and do men actually have rights in the matter of whether a woman has an abortion or not. In theory, it would be great to say that men have rights. However, from a legal standpoint, THEY DO NOT. No court can force a woman to carry a child.

With that said, I will address matters realistically in the manner that an overwhelming percentage of pregnancies and abortions take place. I, PERSONALLY, don't know many women that have abortions without the consent, or overwhelming pressure, of the "father." There is no hoopla when a man pressures a woman to have an abortion because HE is not ready to have a baby. Of course, no one can really make a woman have an abortion, but if she feels that's what she wants instead of raising a child alone, having to live with the fact that her child is unwanted by the "father," giving the child up for adoption, etc., that's her business. The point is that when men don't want a kid, they can move on and do what they hell they want to do without looking back. Let's be honest. EVERY ONE of us knows someone that has gotten a woman into "trouble" and scrambled like a maniac to get the money together for an abortion. We all also know men that don't pay child support and/or don't want anything to do with their children. Now, because the woman wants an abortion for whatever reason that is personal to her or feel that SHE doesn't want the responsibility of a child, all the men are ready to stone her!

We can all agree to disgree or whatever, but abortion, adoption, child rearing, etc. are all matters of personal choice.

Swamp Thang · #35 08-10-2002, 06:48 PM

.... but the thread was created for having an open discussion. As of right now, the discussion is still very intelligent and hasn't broken down into emotion filled banter.

This QUEStion will currently always be answered... each do as their concious allows.. because although the child is the Man's and Woman's, the uterus is the Woman's..

My thing is that for every example, there's an equal counter-example. I have a female friend, right now, who has a daughter that the biological father doesn't know about... because she didn't want him to know about it ON PURPOSE...

She robbed him of fatherhood by omission. No Man can rob a Woman of Motherhood by omission cause alllll Women knooow that the child is hers and the pregnancy can't be hid FROM HER

I'm not a violent Man.. but if an old girlfriend showed up at my doorstep with a 8-12 year old walking mini-me child of mine, I'd take amazing restraint on my part not to kill her.. She's robbed me of: seeing my child born, naming my child, seeing all the 1st for the child (steps, teeth, words, etc)...

And she would've robbed the child of having a relationship with my side of the child's family.

The shame is that all of these contemporary moral issues that we've touched on have taken/are taking place...

thesweetestone · #36 08-10-2002, 11:16 PM

Some of y'all are so self righteous.

Maybe THOU should get more infomation about the people you sleep with so you will know where they stand on abortion. That way you won't be surprised.

Maybe THOU should try to understand that it maybe your baby but it is still her body. You can't beat my ass about my own body. WTF!

My number one question is why is THOU having pre martial sex anyway? Since you are such a moral MAN!

OneOneTwo · #37 08-11-2002, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swamp Thang
My thing is that for every example, there's an equal counter-example. I have a female friend, right now, who has a daughter that the biological father doesn't know about... because she didn't want him to know about it ON PURPOSE...

She robbed him of fatherhood by omission. No Man can rob a Woman of Motherhood by omission cause alllll Women knooow that the child is hers and the pregnancy can't be hid FROM HER

I'm not a violent Man.. but if an old girlfriend showed up at my doorstep with a 8-12 year old walking mini-me child of mine, I'd take amazing restraint on my part not to kill her.. She's robbed me of: seeing my child born, naming my child, seeing all the 1st for the child (steps, teeth, words, etc)...

And she would've robbed the child of having a relationship with my side of the child's family.

The shame is that all of these contemporary moral issues that we've touched on have taken/are taking place...

I'm not violent either... in most cases. But all I ask is that I have a chance to be part of any child I help create's life. That's all I'm asking for... I don't think that is TOO much considering you got these idiots out here who don't do sh-- for the six or eight kids they know about (and I have seen and heard about it with my own eyes and ears). That's why I say my piece up front and if that means I don't sleep with the woman then so be it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thesweetstone
Some of y'all are so self righteous.

Maybe THOU should get more infomation about the people you sleep with so you will know where they stand on abortion. That way you won't be surprised.

Maybe THOU should try to understand that it maybe your baby but it is still her body. You can't beat my ass about my own body. WTF!

My number one question is why is THOU having pre martial sex anyway? Since you are such a moral MAN![/QOUTE]

I am not GOD, self righteous or perfect, I am a MAN........
and most men have two brains and sometimes one thinks for the other one at THE WRONG TIME [some of ya'll in the situation now as I type this]. I didn't say that every time I have sex (or if I have sex at all) I am right cause I don't have no ring on this finger. That's why I DO tell the women my rules upfront (I'm repeating that for this section) so it don't be no miscommunications/misunderstandings and my personal favorite NO EXCUSES for why she cannot abort MY/OUR BABY (be it in her body or not). But on a personal note, it doesn't get that far with me because I don't pick folks at random to sleep with [again, some of ya'll is in the situation now as I type this].

The why I may or may not be having (or have had) pre martial sex is another topic and sense I am A MAN, that will only be discussed with you when or if you become my woman cause some things just don't go outside the bedroom and should stay between the two people involved...

Q Mike Slim Daron Bobo Nuknuk PoBoy Marcus & Dem...
[singing]Leaving Bad Boy for life... (gotta help my boys get free).

112

RedefinedDiva · #38 08-11-2002, 04:32 PM

Swamp Thang, I don't even want you answer (as you shouldn't) because you would be putting your friend's business out. However, the question is did your friend have a reason for not wanting to tell the man about the baby? I'm sure she did. And regardless of how she tries to downplay it, it had to be something serious. No man's genes are that good that HE had to be the one to impregnate her. Since she didn't tell him, it couldn't have been to trap him or get his money. Maybe your friend chose not to have this man a part of her baby's life for something that she deemed seroius enough not tell him about it. Your friend was strong and chose to raise her baby without the help of the father. However, some women don't want to do that. That's why they have the right to an abortion.

Secondly, I hear that some of you feel the need to "beat" a woman for having an abortion or not informing you of a child. Well, go right ahead because 1) you'll wind up in jail, 2) it won't bring your baby back, 3) you'll still have missed out on naming the baby, first steps, and all that other stuff you named, and 4) nothing will be different. You'll probably be worse off than when you found out. That approach won't solve anything.

Why is it that you all are blaiming women for all that goes wrong? If men claim that hey don't go around and have random partners, etc., then why not keep up with it? If you are only having sex with women that "know the rules" or that you care about, how can you let them out of your life for "8-12 years" without checking in on them? It becomes obvious after 5 or 6 months if you have an "issue" to discuss.

OneOneTwo · #39 08-11-2002, 07:23 PM

I see you Diva, I do...

..but it is the feeling of want to kick a girls ass (and talkingt to someone who has personally experienced this) that is strong. And no, he didn't do it but I understood the frustration he had.

You know as well as I do that sometimes, peeps think with their "other" brains and not the one that was created for thinking. And that is how the:
[QOUTE]how can you let them out of your life for "8-12 years" without checking in on them? It becomes obvious after 5 or 6 months if you have an "issue" to discuss.[/QOUTE]

happens.

Q Mike Slim Daron

Swamp Thang · #40 08-11-2002, 07:25 PM

Believe it or not, it was preconceived. You know how some women go through that phase of "I want to have a baby"? We'll, she told me that she wanted to have a baby and wanted to raise it by herself. I thought it was just a something she was saying in an emotional state... but, she got with a dude.. got pregnant... you know the rest..

When she was at about 6 months, I asked her about the father and she said she wasn't gonna tell him cause she didn't want any dude coming between her and HER BABY

sphinxpoet · #41 08-12-2002, 11:38 AM

Here is the real issue no matter how you feel about abortion:

In this society we place a great emphisis on women's rights(as we should) Yet in situations we hold men to a double standard. We state a man should be a father, support his women in all decisions but be passive in situations as she dictates (ie abortion). The reality of the situation is a court will favor a mother in tough calls most of the time.

We seem to measure fathers by the amount of money that comes out of thier pockets to the kids and signifigant others when in reality a man SHOULD have as much at stake with a child as a woman does.

In this society we look down upon men who do not work or are stay home dads. Yet we do not look as harshly upon women with these issues.

Old saying "BE A MAN, GET A JOB"

I will say this gives men the feeling that they are only good for the cash and giving th other 1/2 of the Gene!

RedefinedDiva · #42 08-12-2002, 12:57 PM

Guys, I SEE YOUR POINTS! I REALLY, REALLY DO! However, all of these points do not ring true for everyone.

I do not look down on a man that does not work, as long as he has a valid reason for not doing (as I would say of a woman). I know that being a stay-at-home dad is a hard job because being a mom is. I alos know that there are some women who just don't like to stay home. Hell, if I had a banging career and I took care of the first child (or even if this was the first), and my money could support us, I would be MORE than happy to work. That's what marriage, family, and partnership is all about.

As for other issues, men are not in bad standing and do not take the backburner in situations. The problem is that instead of speaking about it, be about it. Do you think that women got these rights by typing on forums all day? HELL NO! They got out there and marched, petition, burned bras, etc. to get where they are. Men complain about not having rights, but they aren't doing anything to change it. Someone has to set the example. You have to go within the system to change it. You have to do things to get results.

Most of us in here agree that once an egg is fertilized, it's a baby. From a legal standpoint (and some people's personal standpoints), an embryo, fetus, etc. is not a baby until it is delivered. That said, it is just a mass of cells within that woman body that she has the right to have removed if she wants to. You all have to understand that. You may not like it, but it's the way it is. If you don't like it, do something to change it.

Men are complaining about a system that they are partly the fault of getting into place. Back in the day (and even today), men claimed that women are good for nothing cooking, cleaning, sex, and birthing babies. They didn't like that so they got out to change it and fought for the respect they felt they deserved. Now, men are starting to feel powerless and feeling like control is shifting. Well, you either lie in the bed that you made, or go out and buy a new one. (meaning: accept the way things are or go out and change them)

CodeBlue_R3 · #43 08-17-2002, 11:17 PM

My boyfriend and I have these type of indepth conversations to see where one another stand and to make sure that our minds are on common ground. From our point of view the baby is just as much his as it would be mine. So IF (not happening) I wanted to have an abortion he would take the child and raise the child as his own.

OneOneTwo · #44 08-18-2002, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CodeBlue_R3
My boyfriend and I have these type of indepth conversations to see where one another stand and to make sure that our minds are on common ground. From our point of view the baby is just as much his as it would be mine. So IF (not happening) I wanted to have an abortion he would take the child and raise the child as his own.

That last sentence... that is what I would want for myself.

On a serious note... it is good to hear that you and your man talk about these issues because my experience has been that a lot of couples don't until it's too late. That's why I always like my momma's rule... talk before you touch.

CodeBlue_R3 · #45 08-19-2002, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OneOneTwo

On a serious note... I always like my momma's rule... talk before you touch.

That's an excellent rule, lucky for me I've been blessed even though I touched before I talked the hearts between me and him already knew each other like fate.