Livid

[tickledpink]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Well all of you Black, Yellow, and White People I am really Pissed!

I just saw something on Local TV that will be carried on National TV!

Quint, Mi or Al had a Senior class that had a prom that was Segregated by not Officals but by the Students Themselves!

Whites and Blacks had their Own Seperate Proms? What were they thinking about?

We at GC have been working together to cenent relationships and some dumb damn thing like this comes up!

I am so upset, that I do not know what to say.

This is disheartening. Where were the adults in this? What roles did they play? Where was the conflict resolution?

[RockChalk]

I'm wondering that too, tickledpink. I'd also like to know if black students could attend the white prom and vice versa. Could a couple go to both proms? If not, why not? Are they held at the same time?

The issue of racial separation came up on my campus last semester when the student newspaper ran an article about the lack of minorities in white GLOs. The writer of the article didn't seem to understand why black students didn't want to join white GLOs. A member of a BGLO wrote a guest column the next day that basically said, "hey, sometimes people want to hang out with people who are like them - especially in a state like Kansas where there are hardly any people like them." (You can read the original article here and the column right here.)

People shouldn't be barred from activities based on their race. But if they choose not to participate, we should dig a little deeper before accusing anybody of racism.

[snuggles12]

"People shouldn't be barred from activities based on their race. But if they choose not to participate, we should dig a little deeper before accusing anybody of racism". [/B][/QUOTE]


I agree with that statement above. That's why I wanted to read an article about the separate proms to understand the reasons before reaching a conclusion.

Snuggles #7
DST
12/93 - RVA

[Peaches-n-Cream]

RockChalk - Thanks for posting the links to the two articles that you mentioned. They gave two interesting perspective on the issue of diversity in GLO's. I think that it is a good thing that people are concerned about racial diversity and how to make all people feel welcome in the greek system.

[ChaosDST]

I distinctly remember a freshman Greek meet-and-greet forum where the University was described as having "7 wonderful sororities...and 2 historically Black ones." This was a disheartening first impression of the University for many of us (minority and white students included). The distinction between the "regular" sororities and the "other" sororites was made and the line was drawn. Most of us knew what organizations we wished to affiliate ourselves with, so it didn't affect our impressions of the organizations.
What SHOULD they have said? "7 wonderful sororities, INCLUDING 2 historically Black ones." Like I said before, in our little ways, we perpetuate the color line. It may not be so blatant as having separate proms, but the effects are just as lasting.

Originally posted by RockChalk
I'm wondering that too, tickledpink. I'd also like to know if black students could attend the white prom and vice versa. Could a couple go to both proms? If not, why not? Are they held at the same time?

The issue of racial separation came up on my campus last semester when the student newspaper ran an article about the lack of minorities in white GLOs. The writer of the article didn't seem to understand why black students didn't want to join white GLOs. A member of a BGLO wrote a guest column the next day that basically said, "hey, sometimes people want to hang out with people who are like them - especially in a state like Kansas where there are hardly any people like them." (You can read the original article here and the column right here.)

People shouldn't be barred from activities based on their race. But if they choose not to participate, we should dig a little deeper before accusing anybody of racism.

[33girl]

Originally posted by ChaosDST
I distinctly remember a freshman Greek meet-and-greet forum where the University was described as having "7 wonderful sororities...and 2 historically Black ones."

That is the one of the rudest things I have ever heard!! Proper form: "We have 9 wonderful sororities. Two are members of the National Pan-Hellenic Council and seven are members of the National Panhellenic Conference." And that is ALL the distinction that needs to be made. PERIOD.

[ChaosDST]

very true.

Originally posted by 33girl


That is the one of the rudest things I have ever heard!! Proper form: "We have 9 wonderful sororities. Two are members of the National Pan-Hellenic Council and seven are members of the National Panhellenic Conference." And that is ALL the distinction that needs to be made. PERIOD.

[showstopper_1908]

Originally posted by 33girl


That is the one of the rudest things I have ever heard!! Proper form: "We have 9 wonderful sororities. Two are members of the National Pan-Hellenic Council and seven are members of the National Panhellenic Conference." And that is ALL the distinction that needs to be made. PERIOD.

I so agree with you on that one. To respond to the post about the news article, I feel that joining a NPHC sorority vs. a NPC sorority is different than attending a racially segregated prom. My highschool was so racially mixed and eclectic that we all would have wanted to hear Lynard Sknyrd, Ozzy Ozborne and MJ/MC Hammer in a P. Diddy remix featuring Ja Rule and J. Lo! A separte prom would have been unthinkable. Half of my friends would have not been there with me! Something like this is news to me indeed. Someone said that maybe the division was based on music tastes, if that is true, then could I go to the "white" prom if I wanted to dance to N'Sync and Britney Spears? Could my white friends attend the "black" prom if they wanted to dance to JayZ? If this is the case then I couldn't call it a racially divided prom. I still don't know the details of this story, just what I have read on here. It doesn't sound like a music division to me. Every semester all of the Greeks on my campus have a callaborative "Greek Party" and we spend a bit of time on techno, hip hop, salsa, etc. We cover it all. When I go to clubs I bounce from the hip hop, techno, 80's, 90's rooms all in no time. There is enough time in a prom to cover it all and make it sound good. I doubt it was a music issue. If it was that simple I would be surprised that it was taken this far.

[Eirene_DGP]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChaosDST
[B]Cultural similarities bring people together. However, there are whites who enjoy worshipping in Black churches and vice versa. Similarly, there are blacks students who find that they have more in common with the white students and sit with them in the cafeteria.
People flock towards those who look most like them and share similar interests. There are brave souls who go outside of their own comfort level, defy their own friends, to befriend and interact with those of another race.
To specifially look at these instances of segregation (the prom, church, etc.) overlooks WHY these instances come about. People claim to be appalled, but in our own little ways, we perpetuate this. Forced integration is only a bandaid for the problem, there is no cure. But, these kids learned from the adults in America. So, let's not be surprised that the next generation has already learned about America's problem with race and how to keep the problem going.



Amen ChaosDST!!!

[straightBOS]

Originally posted by justamom


1994
http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0380.htm
For example, last spring a private high school in Chicago had two
proms -- one mainly attended by white students and the other mainly
attended by black students. The controversy arose when the
all-white prom committee was choosing songs. Each student could
vote for three songs, and the songs with the most votes would be
played at the prom. It turned out that many of the black student's
songs were not chosen.

The black students felt shut out by the decision-making process
based on majority rule. Guinier quoted one student as saying: "With
us being in the minority, we're always out-voted. It's as if we
don't count."

White students were hurt that their black peers were holding a
separate prom. They thought the black students were not playing by
the rules, namely the supposedly fair majority rule, Guinier said.

An alternative to the situation would be to give each student 10
votes to place on how ever many songs, reflecting the intensity of
their preferences. In this way, the black students could pool their
votes to hear some of their songs at the prom. So even if the
majority's favorite songs were played more often, the "songs that
the minority enjoyed would also show up on the roster."

Good stuff!

That is possibly what happened. Although a "majority rules system" is completely fair, in the case of a prom, it might be seen as unfair to some.

For example, a prom, especially the senior prom, is a very big event (maybe the biggest) in teen life. And you spend a whole heck of a lot of time and money to get it just right. It is also possibly, the last time you will see the faces of the people from whom you never though you would ever be separated.

With such high hopes and $$$, wouldn't anyone want it be as enjoyable as possible? Now, if you are one who enjoys ALL types of music, then two proms are pointless. But, not everyone-- possibly a majority of people, are not like that. So, what's the point of spending all of this money for this big night if you are going to be sitting down bored for two-thirds of the night?

I do not support a "two-prom system" but I can see why it may have evolved.
Fr example, if you have an 80% Caucasian population and 50% of the songs played do not appeal to them, then the majority of the crowd will be sitting during the night so that you can appease the minority. Now, I don't know any DJ that likes to play music for hours for a sitting crowd.
It is impossible to please everyone, and who should sacrifice? And just how much?

Music may seem to be a trivial point, but music that you love and can sing along to goes a long way towards setting the mood for an enjoyable and memorable evening.

[SilverTurtle]

Originally posted by snuggles12
"People shouldn't be barred from activities based on their race. But if they choose not to participate, we should dig a little deeper before accusing anybody of racism".

I agree with that statement above. That's why I wanted to read an article about the separate proms to understand the reasons before reaching a conclusion.

Snuggles #7
DST
12/93 - RVA [/B][/QUOTE]

I still don't think it should have been allowed. Any DJ service the school shelled out money for should have been able to provide a pretty wide variety of music.

But if this were a little different situation- say the shcool is 80% non-white (black, hispanic, whatever you like) and those students mostly pull for one specific type of music. I'll say hip-hop for the sake of this point.
The 20% of white students want to hold their own prom because they want, we'll say, rock music.
Suddenly it, seems a bit more racially motivated to the observer, doesn't it? The white kids want to hold a separate prom... they don't want to associate with the black/hipanic/latino/asian.... kids! Even though the situation is exactly the same.

I guess my point is, nothing in life is all that fair. Letting those kids hold separate proms didn't help them resolve conflict in a positive, realistic way (at least not in the world I know). I think the leaders of the school set a poor example with their decision to allow it.

[Honeykiss1974]

Honestly, I can relate to the students in the "prom" article. I attended high school in Wichita, KS (84% white, 9% black, 4% Hispanic, 2% Asian, and 1% Amer. Indian) where the population at my school was roughly 1,800 students (with about 120 african americans and a sprinkle of Hispanics and Asians) so the music issue is one of importance. We did not have a "majority rule" vote on music because obvisouly that wasn't fair. The solution???? We hired a DJ that played Top 40 music, which resulted in different types of music. Everyone had songs that they could dance to or sit out until "your song" came on. Although I am just talking about music, I did think that my school's admin did the right thing by taking this approach.
However, when it came down to class elections, that was a different story. I remember my senior year, we had the Who's Who elections. You know, things like best hair, most popular couple, best dancer, etc. And for the four years that I was there no African American won anything, except for BEST DANCER HMMM.............

PS. No other minority would win anything either

[straightBOS]

Originally posted by SilverTurtle



But if this were a little different situation- say the shcool is 80% non-white (black, hispanic, whatever you like) and those students mostly pull for one specific type of music. I'll say hip-hop for the sake of this point.
The 20% of white students want to hold their own prom because they want, we'll say, rock music.
Suddenly it, seems a bit more racially motivated to the observer, doesn't it? The white kids want to hold a separate prom... they don't want to associate with the black/hipanic/latino/asian.... kids! Even though the situation is exactly the same.

How so?

It's the same thing.

[ChaosDST]

Having a separate anything just because of musical preference is extremely stereotypical. The majority of hip hop consumers aren't Black, so to have a separate "hip hop" prom for the African American students is silly---assuming that the Black students are the only ones who listen to the music. Just like I like Linken Park...I wouldn't sit through a whole prom playing their songs...but I KNOW that there are DJs that play a VARIETY of music.
I think the schools are using the music issue as an EXCUSE for the racial tension that has persisted and manifested itself in the form of separate proms. Any logical human, could not believe that the answer to a slight difference in musical preference (which isn't really based on race) is to segregate the proms.

[Tianna]

dear Tom...... i no things like this should not happen but unfortunaltly they do.... im from cardiff in wales.. (near london if ur not familiar) well were i live we have a huge multicultural back ground i see rasism alot..... i work with children, an wen i see young children acting out racial discrimination i get so vext.. an hot an bothered its the way ppl are brought up im affraid.. how are children ment 2 learn rite from wrong? its all down 2 adults an there way ov dealin with situations... no matter how upset ppl get ova racial discrimination theres absolutly nothin no body can do an that is the most saddest thing ever.... live an learn about ppl..... as long as u stand true 2 wat u are sod all those racist un- educated prats thats wat i say!!!!!!!!

Tianna xx.