momof4girls Daughter #2 college search thread

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The only problem is that neither of those things are a sure thing. Penn State is a...

True. Finding those sub-groups would turn a Penn State into a merely LARGE school. If she went to an Iowa State or OU (I don't think it's UT, Penn State, Ohio State sized) it would take a merely large school and turn it mid-sized. But remember, with those additional students comes more options for classes, extra-curriculars, etc., which means she could fine tune her experience to suit her needs and goals.

But there are some great small schools out there if she wants a truly intimate setting.

You're probably already fully aware of this site, but I found it enlightening. Unfortunately, most of them are large flagship schools, but there are a few smaller schools on the list.http://www.nwas.org/links/universities.php#mo

On the list (and who knew?) is UNI, where I spent WAY too much time and drank too much beer. But it is a nice smallish school, confined campus, nice little Greek system, and a vastly more personal experience than at Iowa and smaller than Iowa State. UNI (NEVER called Northern Iowa, as it is whenever UNI makes it to the NCAA's). I had several friends who went there and spent my holidays/summers at the Alpha Xi house there so it really felt like a satellite chapter house for me.

It is 4 hours drive to Minneapolis, 4 1/2 hours to Chicago and 5 hours to Kansas City. At holidays there would always be someone driving to Chicago to fly out, or Cedar Rapids is about 45 minutes away and has more flight options than Waterloo, which is convenient but with limited options and usually not price-competitive.

[IUHoosiergirl88]

As a mom, make sure you're okay with losing the weather gamble at least once in her years if she goes to a cold, snowy school. Never fails that at least once you're going to be racing to beat snow/ice/blizzard/whatever and changing flights on the fly--and that can be pricey

[wildcatpride]

I'm a UNC-Asheville graduate and I know they've got a good meteorology school (though I have a friend who's an OU grad and a meteorology major, and I know OU is about as good as it gets for that major). UNCA fits a lot of her requirements - small campus (3 to 4,000 students), all four seasons, has travel abroad programs. If she changes her mind about Greek Life, UNCA does have two sororities but it's not a huge part of campus life. The school may not have the big-name factor but it's a fantastic university!

[momof4girls]

Originally Posted by AGDee

How does she feel about Gamma Phi Beta's colors?

The better question is how does she feel about sorority life? I'm not sure she could even tell me what Gamma Phi Beta's colors are.

Financially we have discussed completely what we can contribute. The short of the story, if she attends a public university she will walk out debt free. If she attends a private university she will have debt when she graduates. This may absolutely play a part in her final decision, especially if she thinks she will continue to grad school. Her father and I will not pay for grad school.

Cheddar's big sister is currently attending the University of Nebraska at Kearney, so we have experience in dealing with travel. Realistically anything further than 12 hrs from home will pose all sorts of logistical challenges (think north of Ames, IA).

We officially have our first college tour set up. October 20th we are OU bound for the day. I really want to hit OU first so she can get a feel for size and the meteorology department. Our list of schools could potentially change dramatically after this visit.

[ChioLu]

[QUOTE=DubaiSis;2291558]On the list (and who knew?) is UNI, where I spent WAY too much time and drank too much beer. QUOTE]

You may have just talked Momof4Girls OUT of UNI.

[DubaiSis]

Well, it's no UC Boulder. I just had great friends there and was kind of a 5th Beatle, as it were with my chapter there and the way some of the fraternity guys behaved. The Greek system was much less structured (no house moms, as a for instance which I thought was just bizarre and wondered how they didn't burn the house down sometimes - also not helping the argument ) so it was almost like hanging out in/around apartments than sorority/fraternity houses. I don't know in the interim if it has become more structured/rulesy.

Also, on closer read, they only offer a minor in meterology, so probably not a match anyway.

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by AGDee

How does she feel about Gamma Phi Beta's colors?

Hey, them's fightin' words!

Actually, the new AOII house next to our new house was decorated by an Alpha Gamma Delta who travels around the country as a sorority decorator (fun job!). She also decorated our new lodge at University of Tennessee-Chattanooga and she told me she was so excited to use pink and brown and mode there!

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

Hey, them's fightin' words!

Actually, the new AOII house next to our new house was decorated by an Alpha Gamma Delta who travels around the country as a sorority decorator (fun job!). She also decorated our new lodge at University of Tennessee-Chattanooga and she told me she was so excited to use pink and brown and mode there!

I only asked because she said she wasn't crazy about Brown and Gold for school colors! So, you know, Gamma Phi Beta... Brown and Mode?

Keep in mind from my son's thread- he wanted to go to a very small private school and he's loving every minute (so far) of his HUGE public university (although he's in a residential living/learning community that is small).

[Pingyang]

Originally Posted by momof4girls

Financially we have discussed completely what we can contribute. The short of the story, if she attends a public university she will walk out debt free. If she attends a private university she will have debt when she graduates. This may absolutely play a part in her final decision, especially if she thinks she will continue to grad school. Her father and I will not pay for grad school.

The bolded is not necessarily true. It might be true if she's attending an in-state public school or somewhere where she is eligible for in-state tuition, but lots of public institutions now see out-of-state students as giant moneymakers. Top private schools with strong endowments and a desire to attract the strongest students can sometimes offer better financial aid packages, especially compared to states where in-state residency is hard to establish. If she becomes a National Merit Semifinalist or better, that might open some doors for scholarships to out-of-state schools, but be wary of front-loaded financial aid and scholarships that require extremely high GPAs to keep. (Even the best students sometimes struggle with the adjustment to college.)

Net price is not sticker price, though both are much too high these days. Don't rule out private institutions early because of high sticker price--every school will have different financial aid opportunities, and it's worthwhile to research them.

[BlueCarnation]

Originally Posted by Pingyang

The bolded is not necessarily true. It might be true if she's attending an in-state public school or somewhere where she is eligible for in-state tuition, but lots of public institutions now see out-of-state students as giant moneymakers. Top private schools with strong endowments and a desire to attract the strongest students can sometimes offer better financial aid packages, especially compared to states where in-state residency is hard to establish.

I strongly second this--even though it's going against the schools I've mentioned. Just yesterday I was talking to my dad, who is an administrator at a large public university, about how top students are not going to his school because smaller private schools with big endowments are able to pay full rides and pull kids away. My cousin got into UTexas, but is at small Knox College because it is paying for all 4 years of college. Over $100,000 that my aunt and uncle don't have to pay. Same happened with my ex bf at Union College--full ride. Someone with good grades/scores is going to be coveted by a private school with money to spend, especially if it will add to their geographic diversity. Definitely keep that in mind.

[PhoenixAzul]

As a former staffer at OU, I know that it would not have been my *personal* choice to study at as an undergraduate. Don't get me wrong, there's a ton to do in terms of clubs and etc, there's infinite resources, there's amazing facilities, and if you like the weather, it's pretty much second only to football as an interest.

But for me it was too big, too football focused (I know, coming from someone from Pittsburgh, I should be used to this), and too bleeding hot. How people learned to adapt to that kind of heat, I have no idea. I was a scared wee freshman who knew nothing about college or Greek life, and I think that if I personally had gone to OU as a freshman, I'd have sunk. The Greek life there was so different from what I knew of Greek life from my tiny Ohio school that we might have been talking about completely different planets. Not even in the same galaxy.

The same was true for me for Penn State, which I seriously considered due to reputation and clout in the area. Again, living in PA, Penn State is the big blue and white elephant in the room. If you walk in to any room and ask for Penn State alum to raise their hands, I can almost guarantee you that there will be at least two. It's a huge school, and has an equally huge and rabid alum base which is pretty darn helpful. I will say this, PSU is in pretty much the middle of nowhere. Like OU, if you like the countryside, you can get it if you want it. If you want an urban campus, this is not it.

Like OU, Penn State has almost endless resources. Crazy resources. If you want to study it, club it, play it, or be it, you can find it there. But it might take you a while to find it. Again, swimming in a pool of 50,000 students was, for 18 year old me, no bueno. The fact that it was 2 hours away and 2 hours away in the middle of nowhere was not a huge selling point for me. I participated in a bunch of summer clubs and camps there, and those were fun and I enjoyed the campus and the student assistants were great..but I didn't want to spend 4 years there because of the size.

Now, all my pessimism aside: they're both great schools. For the right student. But you can say that about any school. It's worth a visit any old how. You can visit my former employer and their beautiful new building when you're at OU. If you come for a visit to PSU, make sure you get some Creamery ice cream (SO GOOD).

[momof4girls]

Originally Posted by BlueCarnation

I strongly second this--even though it's going against the schools I've mentioned. Just yesterday I was talking to my dad, who is an administrator at a large public university, about how top students are not going to his school because smaller private schools with big endowments are able to pay full rides and pull kids away. My cousin got into UTexas, but is at small Knox College because it is paying for all 4 years of college. Over $100,000 that my aunt and uncle don't have to pay. Same happened with my ex bf at Union College--full ride. Someone with good grades/scores is going to be coveted by a private school with money to spend, especially if it will add to their geographic diversity. Definitely keep that in mind.

Understood. My oldest daughter is currently attending a university out of state. One of my first stops on the websites of the universities that Cheddar is interested in is the financial aid site. I look very closely at the scholarships available to out of state students and the requirements for the honor colleges.

PhoenixAzul, Penn State is out of the running and I don't expect that to change. Our trip to OU next month will be a big indicator to size preference and a meteorology degree path. She may love it or hate it, but I think it's a good starting point to be able to focus on a solid path forward.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by Pingyang

Top private schools with strong endowments and a desire to attract the strongest students can sometimes offer better financial aid packages, especially compared to states where in-state residency is hard to establish. If she becomes a National Merit Semifinalist or better, that might open some doors for scholarships to out-of-state schools, but be wary of front-loaded financial aid and scholarships that require extremely high GPAs to keep. (Even the best students sometimes struggle with the adjustment to college.)

Net price is not sticker price, though both are much too high these days. Don't rule out private institutions early because of high sticker price--every school will have different financial aid opportunities, and it's worthwhile to research them.

Oooh - I'd like to "third" this.

Remember that part of the rising cost of college has to do with the strategy increasingly employed by many universities - "high tuition, high aid".

Universities use merit scholarships to lure in the very top of their applicant pool, because they really want those best candidates for all the metrics that go into rankings. So, regardless of public or private, the real issue should be how desired is that school, and how does Cheddar compare to their typical pool of applicants? Obviously, you'll balance that with fit, reputation and her definition of "good" school.

If you're interested in podcosts, I listened to two interesting ones recently:
Planet Money's "The Real Price of College"
This American Life's "How I Got Into College"



Also keep in mind that the overall pool of high school-aged students is declining with movement of that second baby boom, so many smaller universities are finding it much harder to recruit students than they did 5-7 years ago.

For example:

This is from 2010, where there was a noticeable bulge at the 18-20 year old mark. I'm guessing your daughter was about 11 or 12 in 2010 - placing her right in that nice little valley around the 10-year-old mark. I think your daughter is in the best position (numbers-wise) as any student has been in 15 years.

[momof4girls]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Oooh - I'd like to "third" this.

Remember that part of the rising cost of college has to do with the strategy increasingly employed by many universities - "high tuition, high aid".

I'm working very hard to keep this in perspective as I try not to hyperventilate over some of the $45,000 tuition prices.

Intriguing statistics.

[LAblondeGPhi]

On a related note, also remind yourself just how many colleges the average student is applying to nowadays - 10, 15, 20, 25 schools. The common application has made it much easier for students to apply to lots of schools, and that helps drive down those record-low acceptance rates we hear about every single year.