Law Degree Losing Its Luster?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

It's kind of like Kevin's situation--he knew he'd have a job right out, so he needed the JD--not the name on the JD. The problem lies in the people who think they'll have all of same opportunities as those who went to a more prestigious school.

I'm not sure there are any folks attending T3/T4 schools and expecting to get jobs at Top 100 firms. They'd have to be pretty delusional.

I was content to stay in OKC. Here, the top firms recruit from the three state schools equally. They care more about class rank and internships and clerk ships than they do your school tier.

Students should treat their education as an investment. It's not a ticket to greatness, it's just a ticket to ride.

[Low C Sharp]

I'm not sure there are any folks attending T3/T4 schools and expecting to get jobs at Top 100 firms. They'd have to be pretty delusional.

There are TONS of these folks. They are totally delusional. They don't even do enough research to know about "top 100" firms or anything like that...they just know that lawyers make lots of money, so they go for it.

[DrPhil]

A lot of law students are 20-something year olds whose mindsets are still at the level of undergraduate students. In a similar fashion as undergraduate students, they are looking for quick answers to the questions "where will this degree take me" and "how much will I be making."

And some law schools are marketing themselves as answers to those questions.

These students are also getting a skewed perception from friends, family, and some of their social networks (nonInternet).

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Are you even eligible to take the bar after you get a Kaplan degree?

It would totally depend on the state. Not in most states. In Illinois and most other states, you have to have a JD from an ABA accredited school to take the bar.

In California, you don't need a JD at all. Kaplan is registered with the California bar and its students can go through the unaccredited process for taking the bar. They take the First Year Exam ("Baby Bar") at the end of their 1L year and then sit for the regular bar at the end of their 3L year.

[DrPhil]

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/le...cal_order.html

This list includes a few for-profit law schools. Kaplan is not among them.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

These students are also getting a skewed perception from friends, family, and some of their social networks (nonInternet).

I think this is one of the biggest issues with the people who get frustrated when their low-level school fails to get them "that big money." Many have heard their whole lives that education is this great equalizer and that once you have a degree--any degree--you're set and all your financial problems are gone forever and ever.

What people fail to realize, however, is that education is only one piece of the puzzle. Where you went, how you did, and who you meet along your way to said degree makes a lot of difference as well. These are often the same people who get sucked in by online schools and get the idea that if you go to law school--any law school, you'll be living large like Claire Huxtable.

How do we explain the appeal of a place like Cooley?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I think this is one of the biggest issues with the people who get frustrated when their low-level school fails to get them "that big money." Many have heard their whole lives that education is this great equalizer and that once you have a degree--any degree--you're set and all your financial problems are gone forever and ever.

What people fail to realize, however, is that education is only one piece of the puzzle. Where you went, how you did, and who you meet along your way to said degree makes a lot of difference as well. These are often the same people who get sucked in by online schools and get the idea that if you go to law school--any law school, you'll be living large like Claire Huxtable.

How do we explain the appeal of a place like Cooley?

I agree but this is not about school tiers. There are just enough accomplished professionals who graduated from "low-level" schools and that unfortunately includes for-profit online schools. All it takes is a couple of well-established and esteemed alumnae/i to be featured in the school's Career Center or Alumnae/i Magazine and prospective students and current students believe that they too can be among the accomplished. Afterall, there are people who attend "lower-level" schools who attained the skills and networks to excel. They often had to work harder to get people to take them seriously but they tend not to tell that part of the story--unless they grow a disdain for their degree program.

[AGDee]

There are things that people with a law degree can do outside of practicing as a lawyer too. We've been hiring primarily people with law backgrounds in the HIPAA Privacy area and most Privacy Officers I've met during my audits of our vendors have law degrees. The last one was even from Columbia.

Before my ex was laid off, he noted that a lot of jobs that used to go to MBAs were going to people with law degrees instead.

Hypo is considering a law degree eventually but her end goal would have more to do with working in environmental law or politics in some way because she's such a little activist! One of the young women she met at Barnard's Young Women's Leadership Institute was the daughter of a woman who is an ACLU attorney. She was very excited about that!

[DrPhil]

I know people with a J.D. who never intended to practice law and they have stood firmly behind that.

[AGDee]

Oh, and our Governance and Compliance folks usually come from a law background. One of my professors had a law degree and a Master's in IT Security.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

What people fail to realize, however, is that education is only one piece of the puzzle. Where you went, how you did, and who you meet along your way to said degree makes a lot of difference as well.

A J.D. is pretty unique though in that you can take it and if you can find the right clients and work the cases right, you can make big money fast even if you're a solo from a T4 school.

Lawyers are uniquely able to be very successful in a self-employed capacity as many state bars make clients essentially the separate property of individual attorneys. If they leave the firm, their clients go with them. Also, law firms are not allowed to be owned by non-lawyers.

Even grads from Cooley can do very well for themselves.

But damn.. Cooley takes profiteering to a new low.

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I know next to nothing about med or vet school, but I see ads for overseas med school all the time when I'm on campus.

I had been wondering how reputable those programs are. Like, can you sit for the appropriate licensure exams after going there? And even if you do get a license, is anyone going to be interested in hiring you/having you as a resident when they find out where you went to school?

There are several AVMA accredited schools overseas so these grads don't have to go through hoops to get licensed. I don't know how marketable they are though. I figure if 60% of Texas A&M grads are having trouble finding work then overseas students will likley have a tougher time. We have a Ross grad working at my clinic and she is one smart cookie but for some reason A&M would not accept her. I got her the job because I knew her and talked my boss into hiring her. There is another Ross student that will graduate next year that use to be a tech for us-my boss will likely hire her as well. I think at this point it is a "who you know" kind of job market.

I read many of the veterinary threads on Student/Dr network and many of the pre-vets are disillusioned IMO. They think it is all about treating the animal no mattter what. Many forget there is an owner attached to the pet and that it is a business. If the owner can't or is unwilling to pay then you have to make a decision-are you going to treat for free, send them home and let the pet suffer or euthanize? The economy sucks and unfortunately animals are a luxury to many people. Just this week I had a lady complaining about an extra 5$ on her bill and how she needed to get a manicure
Meanwhile, I have a parvo pup at the clinic right now that was going to be euthanized on Wednesday-I looked into his eyes and just couldn't do it-I have about 1500$ invested in him at this point. I hope he makes it.

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by Kevin

A J.D. is pretty unique though in that you can take it and if you can find the right clients and work the cases right, you can make big money fast even if you're a solo from a T4 school.

Lawyers are uniquely able to be very successful in a self-employed capacity as many state bars make clients essentially the separate property of individual attorneys. If they leave the firm, their clients go with them. Also, law firms are not allowed to be owned by non-lawyers.

Even grads from Cooley can do very well for themselves.

But damn.. Cooley takes profiteering to a new low.

It use to be that veterinary hospitals could only be owned by vets and in some states this still holds true. But, corporations are taking over and with their deep pockets are able to somehow bypass this rule (think Banfield-the bane of most private practioner's existence). Students are graduating with so much debt now, many private practioners are in fear of not being able to sell to anyone but a corporation-it really is a sad state of affairs. I am glad I am close to getting out of the profession full time.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

If the owner can't or is unwilling to pay then you have to make a decision-are you going to treat for free, send them home and let the pet suffer or euthanize? The economy sucks and unfortunately animals are a luxury to many people. Just this week I had a lady complaining about an extra 5$ on her bill and how she needed to get a manicure
.

Yep. What you have in bold is what I struggled with. I'm getting better, though. It still aggravates me when they complain about the costs to run tests to see what's wrong. "Oh, that's too high. Why can't you tell me what's wrong?" The words of one my clients who hadn't taken his dog to see a vet in years. The dog was limping, 7 years old, and his body was covered with what looked like tumors, to me. The dog was coughing, and he thought it was kennel cough. Not seeing a vet in 7 years? That "kennel cough" could be anything. Probably heartworms. Long story short, I didn't run the tests, because he didn't want to pay for it. I see this a lot, and I still struggle with it, at times.

eta: Keep us posted (in the random thread) on that patient.

[IUHoosiergirl88]

I think you have to go into law school with the right mindset. My bf is entering the app process and he has come to the decision that if he doesn't get into a T1 school, he's not going and will improve his resume for the next cycle.

Yet two of his friends scored low on the LSAT and think the T3/T4 schools they're going to are the ticket to the promised land. Delusional people ruin it for everyone else