The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[moe.ron]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

So, Geraldo Rivera's take is that the hoodie got Trayvon killed...isn't this the same argument people make about women getting raped because what she wore...she was asking for it?


Hmph, no Gerry...no

Geraldo still relevant? I thought his credibility was gone after that treasurership fiasco.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

So, Geraldo Rivera's take is that the hoodie got Trayvon killed...isn't this the same argument people make about women getting raped because what she wore...she was asking for it?


Hmph, no Gerry...no

I understand what he's saying. No, he didn't deserve to die (and I suspect that Zimmerman would have found him "suspicious" in a 3-piece suit), but folks do need to be mindful of appearances if they don't want to be perceived a certain way.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

So, Geraldo Rivera's take is that the hoodie got Trayvon killed...isn't this the same argument people make about women getting raped because what she wore...she was asking for it?


Hmph, no Gerry...no

Pretty much.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

One of the shooter's past 911 calls was concerning a "suspicious black make aged 7-9 years old."

LOL at a suspicious looking first grader.

LOLOLOLOL!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I understand what he's saying. No, he didn't deserve to die (and I suspect that Zimmerman would have found him "suspicious" in a 3-piece suit), but folks do need to be mindful of appearances if they don't want to be perceived a certain way.

Yes, there is victim precipitation. However, making this a sidetopic belabors the quite basic "be careful about how you portray yourself" point and can be interpreted as victim blame.

Would Martin still be alive had he not worn a hoodie? Would he be alive had he not been a young Black male? Would he be alive had he not been walking? Would he be alive if he had not bought those dangerous candy weapons? These hypotheticals and turning this into the "young Black male hoodie" subtopic takes away from what really happened, just as a discussion of a rapist would be reduced if the discussion turned to whether the rape victims should've worn the super sexy booty mini-dress. That makes rape about sex when it is really about power just as Zimmerman's actions were most likely not a result of feeling threatened and therefore defending oneself against violence. When Zimmerman chose to follow Martin despite the 911 Dispatcher's recommendation, he was potentially placing himself in trouble. There is no self-defense (I hope the law will reflect this) when you follow someone and you have a gun when the other person has candy and fists of fury. I call bullshit and I hope the law calls Zimmerman and his supporters on this bullshit.

When traces of bullshit are permitted, loads of bullshit ensue. This 2010 incident was discussed on CNN on Thursday:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...-went-to-Court

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I understand what he's saying. No, he didn't deserve to die (and I suspect that Zimmerman would have found him "suspicious" in a 3-piece suit), but folks do need to be mindful of appearances if they don't want to be perceived a certain way.

So, if some one has an equally irrational aversion to white guys in collared shirts and ties, should the white guys take that into account when dressing?

I get your point. Personally, I detest the dumb-a$$, sagging, pants off your a$$ look. But until a law is passed outlawing it, guess what, I gotta get over it. People need to control their own aversions/fears unless and until someone steps to you or presents you with a clear and present danger.

By no account presented, even Zimmerman's, did Trayvon Martin do this. When all this started, Trayvon Martin had a right to be exactly where he was in the gated compound.

And now this organizational cowardice, this selective media leaking by law enforcement, the same outfit that let the shooter walk away, w/ gun in possession, without a breathalizer, without surrendering forensic evidence that is now irretrievable, is engaging in character assassination on Trayvon Martin with news of his school suspension, as if that had a da*n thing to do with his being shot dead in a Florida street on Feb. 26.

And yeah, while I support this protest and the pressure it's bringing, I'm equally troubled that we --Black people -- don't roll out like like this when intra-racial shootings occur, leaving other Black mothers to grieve their children. Let's protest and fix that.

this whole thing is troubling on levels I don't even wanna think about.

/end rant...for now.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

And yeah, while I support this protest and the pressure it's bringing, I'm equally troubled that we --Black people -- don't roll out like like this when intra-racial shootings occur, leaving other Black mothers to grieve their children. Let's protest and fix that.

I was waiting for someone to say this.

The attention and outrage will be different because the majority of person violence for all racial and ethnic groups is intraracial. Whites are more likely to be violently victimized by whites; Blacks are more likely to be violently victimized by Blacks; Asians are more likely to be violently victimized by Asians; Native Americans are more likely to be violently victimized by Native Americans; etc. That is about the victim-offender relationship in highly racially and social class segregated societies such as North America. The reason why interracial violence receives the attention that it does is because it is much less common than intraracial violence.

It is the equivalent of responding to public outrage over a murderer who identifies as Christian and who murders someone who identifies as Muslim by saying "I wish we would respond like this when Christians kill Christians." No, we would not because in North America, the majority of offenders and victims identify as Christian. When that is not the case, based on the relatively small percentage of Muslims in North America and the relative difficulty in the average North American Christian to have extensive exposure to Muslims in North America, there is a question over what motivated the offender to target and therefore victimize a nonChristian. That is one of the foundations for hate crime legislation because the person's group membership is what motivated the crime rather than what typically motivates offenders. In addition to a different motivation for crime, it typically takes more time and effort to target and victimize members of groups with whom the offender has relatively less interaction.

Similarly, males are most likely to be both the victim and the perpetrator for all crimes except for sexual assault and rape for which females are more likely to be the victims. Yet, people respond differently when a male offender robs a female than when a male offender robs a male. The outrage and fear for safety is not the same when discussing male-male violence and victimization. In fact, males report an extremely low fear of crime despite having the highest victimization for crimes except for sexual assault and rape.

If people want intragroup violence to be as shocking and appalling as intergroup violence, that's fine, but that requires an understanding of victim-offender dynamics. It is about much more than "Black people aren't outraged when we harm each other" as though that is completely accurate and unique to Black people.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

So, if some one has an equally irrational aversion to white guys in collared shirts and ties, should the white guys take that into account when dressing?

I get your point. Personally, I detest the dumb-a$$, sagging, pants off your a$$ look. But until a law is passed outlawing it, guess what, I gotta get over it. People need to control their own aversions/fears unless and until someone steps to you or presents you with a clear and present danger.

I know this was a rant, but that's not what I said. I agreed that some looks make certain impressions. I didn't say people deserve to die because of the way they dress.

[I2K Beta Mu]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I understand what he's saying. No, he didn't deserve to die (and I suspect that Zimmerman would have found him "suspicious" in a 3-piece suit), but folks do need to be mindful of appearances if they don't want to be perceived a certain way.

I disagree. Dudes and females should be able to dress how they please. So if a female wore some revealing shit, she should be raped?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by I2K Beta Mu

I disagree. Dudes and females should be able to dress how they please. So if a female wore some revealing shit, she should be raped?

Please reread what I've posted (twice).

No, you should not get raped or murdered because of what you wear, but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said appearances didn't matter. Otherwise, why dress up for a job interview? I could be the smartest and hardest-working person, but if I go to an interview in sweats and a dirty t-shirt, I'm not getting the job. THAT'S what I'm agreeing with.

I think if Geraldo had said this outside of the Trayvon Martin context, people wouldn't be making a fuss. It makes sense for him to say it, though, given that he's a media personality who relies on getting headlines in order to stay relevant.

[I2K Beta Mu]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Please reread what I've posted (twice).

No, you should not get raped or murdered because of what you wear, but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said appearances didn't matter. Otherwise, why dress up for a job interview? I could be the smartest and hardest-working person, but if I go to an interview in sweats and a dirty t-shirt, I'm not getting the job. THAT'S what I'm agreeing with.

I think if Geraldo had said this outside of the Trayvon Martin context, people wouldn't be making a fuss. It makes sense for him to say it, though, given that he's a media personality who relies on getting headlines in order to stay relevant.

I feel you there, but dude wasn't on an interview so he should be able to dress how he pleases. Geraldo is full of shit as far as I'm concerned.

[KSUViolet06]

One of the shooter's past 911 calls was concerning a "suspicious black make aged 7-9 years old."

LOL at a suspicious looking first grader.

[Kevin]

Absent a law against dueling, it would almost seem that this statute could be used to justify pistols and 10 paces at high noon.

[ellebud]

I suspect, and hope, that federal law will kick in. I believe that this has been used before: violating Trayvon's civil rights.

And now, thanks to Geraldo, I have to rethink my rainy day wardrobe. I wear a black hoodie (sweatshirt) with a university insignia on it. Someone may mistake my white middle aged woman's face as a threat.

[DrPhil]

I have always liked Geraldo since his days of "dat's bullshit, 'lado...I aint touch dem kids" Joe Jackson, to getting his nose broken on aire, to his current work on Fox News, et al.

MSN asked whether Geraldo's a hoodie hypocrite:

http://now.msn.com/now/0324-geraldo-asking-for-it.aspx

They are being tongue in cheek but I don't think he's a hypocrite. Geraldo was talking about a particular look that is "created" when certain people (particularly Black males and non-white Hispanic males) wear hoodies. What he said is true in terms of how people perceive and treat others based on perceptions. But, what if someone thought Geraldo looked like a potential rapist or a pedophile in his hoodie? No joke, there are profiles as well as stereotypes (stereotypes are not the same as profiles) in which Geraldo could fit. He better watch out.

[DaemonSeid]

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/html5/vid...=null§ion=null

Why are we just now hearing about Trayvon calling 9-1-1?