Tent Talk & "Bottom-Tier" Houses

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

I used to think the idea of deferred recruitment was absolutely terribly for struggling chapters, but the older I get, the more I understand your exact point. I also understand the great benefit of having time to assess PNMs, both in the social scene and their grades.

amen to both points. IMO, if AZ had deferred recruitment, a sizeable percentage of the PNMs wouldn't be eligible to go through recruitment at all, due to either low GPA first semester, or to their behavior (you can fill in the blanks here). It would help reduce the numbers in the new member classes (campus total is 200, quota was 83 last August). We wouldn't have to sort through 1200+ PNMs in the dreaded heat and thunderstorms of August. I'm all for it, but doubt it will ever happen.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Part of the problem, though, is that PNM's need something, anything, on which to base their decisions. If you go through rush with more than, say, 10 chapters, how do you rank the first night? If you've just gotten to campus, and you don't really know much about the groups, you are ranking based on a 25-minute meeting, probably only 15 minutes of which is actually conversation. Tent talk is stupid. So is ranking based on prettiest colors or how much you like the snacks or anything else, but a 15-minute chat just doesn't leave the PNM's much to go on.

[Pearly]

I agree that the pnm's are really looking for information to make a wise choice. I think a strong Panhellenic that has detailed web pages about recruitment with links to the chapters web pages helps give them facts and not opinions. Also early rush before or during the first week of school is important.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

amen to both points. IMO, if AZ had deferred recruitment, a sizeable percentage of the PNMs wouldn't be eligible to go through recruitment at all, due to either low GPA first semester, or to their behavior (you can fill in the blanks here). It would help reduce the numbers in the new member classes (campus total is 200, quota was 83 last August). We wouldn't have to sort through 1200+ PNMs in the dreaded heat and thunderstorms of August. I'm all for it, but doubt it will ever happen.

That is assuming their behavior would be the same for the fall. Anyone can be good for one semester. It would not make the number of PNMs any less. It also makes for more rush crushes and drama

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by Jen

Depending on chapter strength at a particular campus, websites can give away a lot to a PNM. You can often see the exact number of sisters, how many take on leadership positions (or multiple ones), what kind of events they attend (and which they don't) and the size of their new member classes. At a school where chapter numbers vary widely, this can be really telling (on the surface) to a PNM.

Someone coming from out of state may be able to tell on certain campuses exactly which chapter is smallest, largest, which seems to be the most active etc. There may be no need for tent talk for a PNM to make snap judgements without even meeting the members, and a PNM may not give them a chance based on what they surmise.

But that happens on the first day of recruitment anyway. Snap judgements have to be made based on a couple of minutes worth of parties. It isn't difficult to see which chapters are smaller or larger, have the best looking women, have the most awkward looking and acting, most fashionably/expensively dressed etc. The PNMs do a mighty fine job of talking amongst themselves based on what they observe even if they had no idea going in. That's been happening long before Al Gore invented the internet.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by Jen

Depending on chapter strength at a particular campus, websites can give away a lot to a PNM. You can often see the exact number of sisters, how many take on leadership positions (or multiple ones), what kind of events they attend (and which they don't) and the size of their new member classes. At a school where chapter numbers vary widely, this can be really telling (on the surface) to a PNM.

Ya, to a degree. Some chapters just aren't very good at making their websites user-friendly or informative, and many chapters aren't particularly good at keeping their websites or facebook pages up-to-date. Sometimes it's the chapters who don't have their ish together, sometimes it's perfectly functional chapter who don't really care so much about web presence.

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek?

But that happens on the first day of recruitment anyway. Snap judgements have to be made based on a couple of minutes worth of parties. It isn't difficult to see which chapters are smaller or larger, have the best looking women, have the most awkward looking and acting, most fashionably/expensively dressed etc. The PNMs do a mighty fine job of talking amongst themselves based on what they observe even if they had no idea going in. That's been happening long before Al Gore invented the internet.

I also agree with this... however... I think the biggest concern with "tent talk" is when it changes the mind of a PNM who otherwise liked a chapter, but then made her daily rankings decisions partly based on gossip she heard. Or, that the reputations tainted her perceptions ahead of time and she never gave certain chapters a fair chance to begin with.

It's hard to quantify how many PNMs are just information starved, and how many genuinely go in search of rankings info from the get-to. If information is even part of the culprit, then directing PNMs to positive information sources over the summer could be helpful: to GC, the NPC website, the Sorority Life website, etc.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by HQWest

Your first instinct was right. Spring recruitment = 4 whole months of tent talk. Plus then the boys get into it too. You can put silence rules on the sorority girls, but can't stop the boys from talking. Most deferred recruitment schools have some kind of rule where sorority girls can't talk to PNMs that they don't already know. That puts you right back with the PNM that is the best connected going in to recruitment has a significant advantage. It also leads to dirty rushing.

If a school is still doing this, they are stupid (and if I'm not mistaken, going against the latest advisories in the Green Book). This ruins one of the main objectives of deferred recruitment...which is for potential rushees to get to know sorority women in normal day to day life, not in a ridiculously structured "party" environment. That way when Freddy Fraternity says that Sorority A is full of snobs, you'll know this is BS, because Andrea A is in a class with you and helped you find the student center when you lost your campus map. If Andrea isn't allowed to speak to you as a fellow human for 4 months, it only enforces any stereotypes.

Plus, most of these dumb rules said that sorority members specifically can't speak to freshmen. This is outright discrimination...it implies that freshmen are the only ones rushing.

And not only that....are these rushees in convent school? Do you honestly think girls rushing at SEC schools (pre-freshman rush) haven't heard as much, if not MORE, from the guys in their orbit as they have from the girls?

First semester freshman rush does not prevent tent talk. PERIOD. The only thing that prevents tent talk is a truly unified Greek community that doesn't permit it to happen. If women come in from HS spouting it, they need to be told, "I know your family/friends/boyfriend/random website said X, and Y, and Z, but we are all part of a Greek family here. We don't talk smack about our family."

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If a school is still doing this, they are stupid (and if I'm not mistaken, going against the latest advisories in the Green Book). This ruins one of the main objectives of deferred recruitment...which is for potential rushees to get to know sorority women in normal day to day life, not in a ridiculously structured "party" environment. That way when Freddy Fraternity says that Sorority A is full of snobs, you'll know this is BS, because Andrea A is in a class with you and helped you find the student center when you lost your campus map. If Andrea isn't allowed to speak to you as a fellow human for 4 months, it only enforces any stereotypes.

Plus, most of these dumb rules said that sorority members specifically can't speak to freshmen. This is outright discrimination...it implies that freshmen are the only ones rushing.

And not only that....are these rushees in convent school? Do you honestly think girls rushing at SEC schools (pre-freshman rush) haven't heard as much, if not MORE, from the guys in their orbit as they have from the girls?

First semester freshman rush does not prevent tent talk. PERIOD. The only thing that prevents tent talk is a truly unified Greek community that doesn't permit it to happen. If women come in from HS spouting it, they need to be told, "I know your family/friends/boyfriend/random website said X, and Y, and Z, but we are all part of a Greek family here. We don't talk smack about our family."

We've been over this before....
The girls who have family members who are Greek have been hearing about who is the Best chapter since they were in diapers, BUT odds are they have only heard mostly positive things about being Greek. They haven't heard "that chapter are the rich B**$," and "those are the fat girls" and "that chapter has the party girls." (Unless their mom is a total jerk? )

This idea that girls will get more involved on campus (join a sports team or write for the school paper or start a anime club, etc.) than they would have if they were in a sorority first semester has not held up.

First semester recruitment DOES help smaller chapters. Girls that are new to the system are more willing to take a chance on a group. It also means girls are less likely to drop out of recruitment if they don't get their first choice. First semester recruitment cuts back on drama.

Most importantly, first semester recruitment DOES prevent dirty rushing - as in "if you don't do X - I'll make sure you never pledge ABC or you HAVE to do this everybody does it."

Been there - done that. Have the T-shirt.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by HQWest

We've been over this before....
The girls who have family members who are Greek have been hearing about who is the Best chapter since they were in diapers, BUT odds are they have only heard mostly positive things about being Greek. They haven't heard "that chapter are the rich B**$," and "those are the fat girls" and "that chapter has the party girls." (Unless their mom is a total jerk? )

This idea that girls will get more involved on campus (join a sports team or write for the school paper or start a anime club, etc.) than they would have if they were in a sorority first semester has not held up.

First semester recruitment DOES help smaller chapters. Girls that are new to the system are more willing to take a chance on a group. It also means girls are less likely to drop out of recruitment if they don't get their first choice. First semester recruitment cuts back on drama.

Most importantly, first semester recruitment DOES prevent dirty rushing - as in "if you don't do X - I'll make sure you never pledge ABC or you HAVE to do this everybody does it."

Been there - done that. Have the T-shirt.

I grew up in a Greek family, and my big bro and his friends were like "ABC is the snobby bitches and DEF is the nice-girl losers and all the other chapters aren't Jewish". So yes, I got some negative stereotypes from my bro, but I guess my take-away was more "wow, every chapter has a downside or something negative that people say about them".

[BlueOwl]

Tent talk will never go away, and now with internet websites pnm's go into recruitment with way too many impressions of chapters. I do believe that we human creatures tend to gravitate towards those who are similar to us, and that we tend to attract those who are similar to us. Thus, the ABC chapter that is is overwhelmingly attractive will tend to attract and retain very attractive pnm's. And if XYZ chapter is really athletic and jock-ish, they will likely attract and retain lots of those pnm's. It's a natural selection, I think. The hippie types and the quiet ones will do likewise. It really does work that way.Don't you think?

[BlueOwl]

One more thought...I also think that young women who are groomed all of their lives to be in a certain sorority because of social beliefs, legacy status, etc. will not be truly fulfilled in their sorority if they are not free to choose the house that feels right for them. While being a legacy is a wonderful thing ( I am a double legacy), it should not dictate a girl's selection. My daughter was a triple legacy and chose another sorority...with my full blessing!!

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by BlueOwl

Tent talk will never go away, and now with internet websites pnm's go into recruitment with way too many impressions of chapters. I do believe that we human creatures tend to gravitate towards those who are similar to us, and that we tend to attract those who are similar to us. Thus, the ABC chapter that is is overwhelmingly attractive will tend to attract and retain very attractive pnm's. And if XYZ chapter is really athletic and jock-ish, they will likely attract and retain lots of those pnm's. It's a natural selection, I think. The hippie types and the quiet ones will do likewise. It really does work that way.Don't you think?

not entirely. the top houses will attract those that are similar, plus pnms who aspire to be like the girls in those houses. You will find pretty, slender girls in the fat house, girls who struggle with grades in the brainy house, party girls in the bible study house, and girls who wear daisy dukes and slouch boots in the preppy house.

The blonde house is not all blondes, ABC does not have all the cheerleaders, and all the XYZs don't hang out at the same fraternity.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by HQWest

We've been over this before....
The girls who have family members who are Greek have been hearing about who is the Best chapter since they were in diapers, BUT odds are they have only heard mostly positive things about being Greek. They haven't heard "that chapter are the rich B**$," and "those are the fat girls" and "that chapter has the party girls." (Unless their mom is a total jerk? )

I missed where I referred to family members. I was talking about garden variety boys. I remember being 18, and honestly, family members held the LEAST amount of influence as to what/whom I thought was cool.

Originally Posted by HQWest

This idea that girls will get more involved on campus (join a sports team or write for the school paper or start a anime club, etc.) than they would have if they were in a sorority first semester has not held up.

I also missed where I said this was a reason for deferred rush. I said that the reason was for them to GET TO KNOW SORORITY MEMBERS. That could be in a club, in a class, at a party, at a campus job, in their dorm, whatever. Unless you're at IU (and even then) there are sorority members who don't live in their houses. Are you intimating that they don't speak with anyone non-affiliated?

Originally Posted by HQWest

First semester recruitment DOES help smaller chapters. Girls that are new to the system are more willing to take a chance on a group. It also means girls are less likely to drop out of recruitment if they don't get their first choice. First semester recruitment cuts back on drama.

Maybe it helps them make quota, ON PAPER. But do those girls all show up at bid day? Do they stay around for the semester and initiate? Are they still involved as seniors? Some girls are willing to take a chance - but they are 50/50 with the women who will feel took, hornswaggled, bamboozled that the chapter who they thought was on the same social level as the rest of the groups (since all they saw of them was rush, before they even set foot in a college classroom) only mixes once a semester and is a campus joke. I'd rather give bids to women who have heard all the tent talk and stereotypes and seen the sorority warts and all and still want to be there anyway.

Originally Posted by HQWest

Most importantly, first semester recruitment DOES prevent dirty rushing - as in "if you don't do X - I'll make sure you never pledge ABC or you HAVE to do this everybody does it."

Been there - done that. Have the T-shirt.

Originally Posted by pinapple

Round Up

Round up is the weekend after Spring Break this year (March 23-25) and it can be a great opportunity to see Greek Life in all its glory. But again, step wisely. If you are a Senior and go to Round Up. BEHAVE. Everyone is watching. Recruiting is happening. It just is.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by BlueOwl

Tent talk will never go away, and now with internet websites pnm's go into recruitment with way too many impressions of chapters. I do believe that we human creatures tend to gravitate towards those who are similar to us, and that we tend to attract those who are similar to us. Thus, the ABC chapter that is is overwhelmingly attractive will tend to attract and retain very attractive pnm's. And if XYZ chapter is really athletic and jock-ish, they will likely attract and retain lots of those pnm's. It's a natural selection, I think. The hippie types and the quiet ones will do likewise. It really does work that way.Don't you think?

Exactly.

Not to say that there won't be women who don't fit the stereotype - few chapters are homogeneous, and the larger the chapter, the more likely to have differences.

But humans tend to choose friends who are like them, and any group that has a vote on activities will do those that the majority want to do. So if, for example, athletics is important to a large part of the chapter, conversations will tend to focus on athletics, and women will tend to have more interesting conversations with those who appreciate athletics ... This is human nature.

Things will change. Within any group, as members come and go, emphasis changes. The chapter that was the jock chapter 10 years ago may well be the princess chapter now; the princess chapter of 8 years ago (that's only 2 full chapters, after all) may be the nerds now. Who knows.