Teacher Accused of Statutory Rape and Other Offenses

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The article is clearly poorly written. A "minor" is different depending on whether you're talking about alcohol, tobacco/voting, or age of consent. It's an inconsistent term that should have been clarified. Someone can be a minor in relation to alcohol but legally of consent and able to get married.

Beyond the fact that it is a poorly written article, the teacher is being accused of giving alcohol to minors--contributing to the delinquency of a minor--and statutory rape. Where is the confusion regarding whether or not the alleged victims are minors?

This discussion would have gone a lot different if this was a male teacher and female student; or male teacher and male student.

There probably would not be the following:

1.) Reminder of "innocent until proven guilty" (the title of this thread says "accused of...");

2.) Mention that the teenagers could be partly responsible since they requested alcohol;

3.) Mention of this potentially being one big misunderstanding; or

4.) Mention of people who have been wrongly accused in the past.

The fact that this thread has taken this turn is another gendered double standard. People are much more likely to consider alleged female offenders to be more along the lines of another victim than a perpetrator.

[DrPhil]

The news sources cannot decide whether the boys range in ages 11-14 or 14-17. They are still minors based on how minor is defined in Tennessee (legal drinking age is 21; age of informed consent is 18).

I still want some clarity on the age range.

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-teache...,4222104.story

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...40-yrs-in-jail

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...d-sex-students

[crosscaravan]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

You're giving kids way too much credit if you think "most middle school kids know that alcohol is a no-no."

You haven't spent much time with middle schoolers, have you?

My point was that anyone who asks someone older than them for alcohol knows it's something they're not allowed to have or buy - a "no-no." If they didn't know it was illegal, they would have just tried to buy it on their own instead of asking.

I don't spend much time with middle schoolers now, but when I was in middle school my friends and I knew enough to stay away from alcohol. The students who wanted alcohol got it, but they also knew that it was illegal for them to do so, so they had to be sneaky about it. I had very little sympathy for the people in my 8th grade class who complained of being hungover the day after bragging about how their "cool college friends" would be getting alcohol for them at an "awesome party."

The attitudes towards and the knowledge about alcohol at that age may also have something to do with where I grew up, though, so there you have it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by crosscaravan

My point was that anyone who asks someone older than them for alcohol knows it's something they're not allowed to have or buy - a "no-no." If they didn't know it was illegal, they would have just tried to buy it on their own instead of asking.

What is the significance of this in light of what this teacher is being accused of?

Many teenagers don't like the fact that they have restrictions. Some teenagers would ask for all sorts of things if they think adults will give it to them. Some teenagers would ask for shots of tequila if they thought an adult would give it to them; some teenagers would ask to drive the car without a drivers license and with no one with a drivers license in the car if they thought an adult would give that to them; some teenagers would ask for oral sex if they thought an adult would give it to them. The fact of the matter remains that there is a legal drinking age; legal age at which teens can get drivers licenses and drive cars all by themselves; and an age of informed consent.

Period.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Beyond the fact that it is a poorly written article, the teacher is being accused of giving alcohol to minors--contributing to the delinquency of a minor--and statutory rape. Where is the confusion regarding whether or not the alleged victims are minors?

This discussion would have gone a lot different if this was a male teacher and female student; or male teacher and male student.

There probably would not be the following:

1.) Reminder of "innocent until proven guilty" (the title of this thread says "accused of...");

2.) Mention that the teenagers could be partly responsible since they requested alcohol;

3.) Mention of this potentially being one big misunderstanding; or

4.) Mention of people who have been wrongly accused in the past.

The fact that this thread has taken this turn is another gendered double standard. People are much more likely to consider alleged female offenders to be more along the lines of another victim than a perpetrator.

The confusion is in the article itself where it said "depending on age". I'm just chalking it up to a poorly written article. I didn't know that 18 was the age of consent in TN when I said that. Most states have a lower age of consent so I was thinking that was some of the confusion.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The confusion is in the article itself where it said "depending on age". I'm just chalking it up to a poorly written article. I didn't know that 18 was the age of consent in TN when I said that. Most states have a lower age of consent so I was thinking that was some of the confusion.

For some reason, this quote is the highlight of this thread:

"Covington residents say if the allegations are true, the minors hold some responsibility, depending on their age."

It seems as though the Covington residents are saying that the older minors should know better (similar to what crosscaravan is saying about asking for alcohol). The residents' opinions do not mean that these minors are not minors.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by crosscaravan

My point was that anyone who asks someone older than them for alcohol knows it's something they're not allowed to have or buy - a "no-no." If they didn't know it was illegal, they would have just tried to buy it on their own instead of asking.

I don't spend much time with middle schoolers now, but when I was in middle school my friends and I knew enough to stay away from alcohol. The students who wanted alcohol got it, but they also knew that it was illegal for them to do so, so they had to be sneaky about it. I had very little sympathy for the people in my 8th grade class who complained of being hungover the day after bragging about how their "cool college friends" would be getting alcohol for them at an "awesome party."

The attitudes towards and the knowledge about alcohol at that age may also have something to do with where I grew up, though, so there you have it.

Ok so your friends are all perfect and they would never do that.

I've worked in middle school, and the average kid is not that. Not saying that every middle school kid I've known is a raging party animal, but even the best kids will try drinking if one of their friends is doing it.

What I was really getting at with quoting your statement is that, in the context of what we're discussing here, if I get arrested for buying my students alcohol, I can't respond with "well, they knew it was illegal to ask me."

Whether they know better or not, I'm still the adult. I have to protect them (by not providing it for them) because the law says "these are kids and they aren't capable of making decisions regarding purchasing/consuming an intoxicating substance."

[Optimus Prime]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Ok so your friends are all perfect and they would never do that.

I've worked in middle school, and the average kid is not that. Not saying that every middle school kid I've known is a raging party animal, but even the best kids will try drinking if one of their friends is doing it.

What I was really getting at with quoting your statement is that, in the context of what we're discussing here, if I get arrested for buying my students alcohol, I can't respond with "well, they knew it was illegal to ask me."

Whether they know better or not, I'm still the adult. I have to protect them (by not providing it for them) because the law says "these are kids and they aren't capable of making decisions regarding purchasing/consuming an intoxicating substance."

Agreed on everything. I'd also like to add another small point. Children may know certain things are wrong, or off limits. If children ask an adult for something that they know they shouldn't have, and that adult gives it to them, in a lot of children's minds they think it's then okay to have whatever was off limits. An adult giving a child something can seem like they're getting permission to have it/do it/say it, so in hindsight they really don't know it's a no-no.

[AXOmom]

Another point on a middle schooler asking for alcohol and for the record I also agree that whether they did or didn't has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the sex abuse charge and in NO WAY makes them even .00001% at fault for it.

I've taught middle school and high school age students for most of my career. Not once has a student come to me or any teacher I know and asked for alcohol. Do they want it? Yes, they do. Do they find it? Yes, they do, but they don't randomly ask teachers, and I'm assuming that's because they know that the results of that query would not be good.

That would lead me to believe that IF they did ask this teacher, she had already crossed enough lines that they believed she was the type of person that might do it. I don't know if she's guilty, but that would seem to be typical behavior for a sexual predator. Generally, they work like a fisherman - they know what the fish wants, they put it on a hook, wait for it to bite and slowly reel it in before the fish know what's happened.

Personally, I think she knew exactly what the typical 14-17 year old boy would want, she led them to believe she was the "cool, laid-back" teacher who might be willing to provide it, and then she had them where she wanted them like any other sexual predator. In other words - she groomed them. If that turns out to be what happened it doesn't matter whether or not they asked for alcohol, it doesn't matter if they were 11 or 17, and it shouldn't matter that they're boys and she's a woman - she should be locked up like any other skeezy, perverted, middle-aged sex abuser.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

I've taught middle school and high school age students for most of my career. Not once has a student come to me or any teacher I know and asked for alcohol. Do they want it? Yes, they do. Do they find it? Yes, they do, but they don't randomly ask teachers, and I'm assuming that's because they know that the results of that query would not be good.

That would lead me to believe that IF they did ask this teacher, she had already crossed enough lines that they believed she was the type of person that might do it. I don't know if she's guilty, but that would seem to be typical behavior for a sexual predator. Generally, they work like a fisherman - they know what the fish wants, they put it on a hook, wait for it to bite and slowly reel it in before the fish know what's happened.

Personally, I think she knew exactly what the typical 14-17 year old boy would want, she led them to believe she was the "cool, laid-back" teacher who might be willing to provide it, and then she had them where she wanted them like any other sexual predator.

EXACTLY. I think it's an odd request. I bet if someone would ask the other middle-school teachers in the school "did these students ever ask you to buy them alcohol?" the answer would be "NO!" Why THAT teacher? To me, it seems the answer is clear- she is a predator and was blurring lines long before this happened.

[ElieM]

Does "statutory rape by an authority figure" carry a heavier penalty than other "statutory rape"?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by ElieM

Does "statutory rape by an authority figure" carry a heavier penalty than other "statutory rape"?

Who would you classify as being an "authority figure"?

While I don't know the law, I would hope that there weren't different penalties. IMO, statutory rape is statutory rape. Everyone who commits a crime such as the one described here should be thrown in jail for a VERY LONG TIME.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

IMO, statutory rape is statutory rape. Everyone who commits a crime such as the one described here should be thrown in jail for a VERY LONG TIME.

I read an article a while back that makes me think twice about the bold.

An 18 year old senior had sex with his ~16 year old girlfriend and was arrested. Do I think this person should have the same punishment as a 42 year old having sex with a 15 year old? Nope.

ETA: Found it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Dixon
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in594110.shtml

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I read an article a while back that makes me think twice about the bold.

An 18 year old senior had sex with his ~16 year old girlfriend and was arrested. Do I think this person should have the same punishment as a 42 year old having sex with a 15 year old? Nope.

I understand there's that gray line regarding this matter.. what I meant was more along the lines of: If a teacher has sex with her 13-year-old student, or a random middle-aged man/woman has sex with a 13-year-old, they should both receive the same punishment.

Essentially, status/position/job/authoritative role shouldn't make a difference.

[southernbelle14]

Okay, just to clarify, I'm not saying she is any less guilt or responsible due to this.
I just wanted to point out a couple things.
First, I've looked this up and all but one article say that the students were 14-17 years old. This being the case, some of them would not be her students.
Also, the third article drphil posted stated that she provided alcohol to her teenage daughter and her friends at parties thrown at her house. This is far from having been asked by students at school... Under these circumstances I do not believe you can assume she acted as a predator in the classroom. She had contact with these students because of her teenage daughter, not because she was teaching them.